2009.03.14 Geraldo - Dr. Baden, Slip or Not on Chloroform In Caylee's hair test?

[Tracey276]

I'm a transcriptionist (for pathologists), and I played this several times and I heard Dr. Baden say "yeah, I think where they found chloroform in the baby's hair, I think that it may be irrelevant for cause of death because you're looking for (inaudible (Geraldo talking over him) in the body, but I would take exception in the sense that it's important because it gives a history of the drug taking, how to evaluate the drugs she took (they are talking about ANS)......" (I transcribed this from the YouTube link).

Also I have not read in the discovery doc any information that chloroform was found in Caylee's hair. This information has not been released. However, I believe that her hair has been tested. I wonder if the bottle with the syringe that was found in the bag with the remains perhaps contained something? I know that 10 ml of ingested chloroform is fatal. Also from my research, pool shock, bleach and acetone can make chloroform. (I sure hope my computer is never taken by police, it would be difficult to explain why I was reseaching this). I'm sure you all feel the same way.

Debbie,

i'm kind of confused as to what you think it means about what Dr. Baden said. I am not a transcriptionist. However, I, too rewound that tape, many, many times and although they were talking about ANS, it was VERY clear to me Dr. Baden said yeah, where they found chloroform in the baby's hair.(Not exact words here, although I KNOW he said baby's hair)

I wanted to ask more about the syringe and bottle. What was this about exactly? I remember hearing briefly about it but don't recall much. It was in the bag with Caylee's remains or trunk, or where? Also, if your research is correct about chloroform being made out of pool shock, acetone and bleach, that is ABSOLUTELY something I can see KC doing, without A DOUBT in my mind. I mean we know there was at least some talk of chloroform in that group of friends, with RM ad thing about on his computer. KC was broke and had no money to buy it, or I guess she would have maybe bought it. But considering what she was going to use it for, I don't see it as a stretch at all, her thinking she could duplicate it herself. We have to remember this is KC's mindframe, not a reasonable person's fram of thinking. A normal person wouldn't think of a lot of the things KC did, this being one of them. Or not reporting our child missing for over a month!

And finally, oh, yes, you are absolutely right about my never wanting the police to need to look at my hard drive. I have always followed true crime, trials on court tv, news stories on crimes, etc and an issue with *advertiser censored* with an ex boyfriend and my teenage stepson, lol! So, whoa, would they think I'm a nutcase, if no one in my family would vouch for my computer histories. LOL

 

[sleutherontheside]

Was this Baden Blooper discussed on NG or JVM last night? I didn't see a thread and was unable to watch the shows myself.

I read the NG transcripts last night and didn't see any mention of it.

 

[Star12]

OK, pardon my ignorance, but Herc, WHO is that in your avatar?

OT - I think?

 

[Patty G]

Please stay on topic of this thread ...

 

[snow_walker]

chloroform..this whole chloroform issue baffles me.. I am a little puzzled about where she got it.. and I have to assume she bought it or somehow got some from a manufacturer, the home made version of chloroform is too difficult to make, and too dangerous to handle.. one would have to make it about a spoonful at a time to have any degree of safety..
even if she did manage to buy some somewhere, it sure wouldn't be one's drug of choice for her purposes. It doesn't last long enough to use it for babysitting, as someone already pointed out. Better to use the baby cough syrup or many other drugs.

Still, it seems she may well have used it on Caylee.. I am wondering if it might have been used as a 'punishment'.. something like "Be quiet! or Mommy will make you be quiet..' or to control temper tantrums.
Perhaps it acted as a sedative in low doses, keeping little Caylee groggy and calm.

 

[Patty G]

chloroform..this whole chloroform issue baffles me.. I am a little puzzled about where she got it.. and I have to assume she bought it or somehow got some from a manufacturer, the home made version of chloroform is too difficult to make, and too dangerous to handle.. one would have to make it about a spoonful at a time to have any degree of safety..
even if she did manage to buy some somewhere, it sure wouldn't be one's drug of choice for her purposes. It doesn't last long enough to use it for babysitting, as someone already pointed out. Better to use the baby cough syrup or many other drugs.

Still, it seems she may well have used it on Caylee.. I am wondering if it might have been used as a 'punishment'.. something like "Be quiet! or Mommy will make you be quiet..' or to control temper tantrums.
Perhaps it acted as a sedative in low doses, keeping little Caylee groggy and calm.

There are many threads on Cholorform. Here is on that you might want to visit. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70561&highlight=cholorform

 

[Lanie]

I spent a little time late last night researching the Florida Sunshine laws regarding disclosure of information pertaining to a trial. I'm not an attorney, I am cutting the legalese, and paraphrasing to get the general idea across, so please no smackdown from lawyers over this. :crazy:
I was looking for 'Herald Publishing Co. vs. Lewis', and I couldn't find the actual court case, but I did find some other rulings citing this case.
It appears from what I read, while exemptions to the public release of trial information are few and far between, there are some. This ruling, and at least a couple others, deal with a defendent's constitutional right to a fair trial trumping the public's right to know. There are cases where a defendent successfully filed motions to deny disclosure of discovery documents to the public. There were also some references I found where discovery was not run through the clerk's office, this seemed like some kind of loophole. There were also references to being able to withhold information if a gag order has been put into place.
I am unaware of any motions filed by Casey and Co. to gain exemption for any of this information being released. It is my opinion the case of 'Herald Publishing Co. vs. Lewis' might deal with this situation when a motion is not filed by the defense, but since I couldn't access that case, I'm not sure. It's also possible the State or the judge decided to hold back this info since the defense is clearly the broken nubby crayon in the box, and hasn't filed motions.
It also seems obvious some evidence is in existence from July we haven't seen yet, such as TonE's statements about what was discussed July 15/16. Baez hasn't asked for this in motions for discovery, so either he isn't aware of it, or it has already been given to him, and not to us.
So I am making a leap of faith and thinking it is likely because of what I do know the state has found some way to withhold some of the information generated from the public. I do believe the hair found with the remains was tested for all kind of things. I also believe Baden said chloroform was found in the hair. Whether he knows what he is talking about is debatable, but I have at least convinced myself it is within the realm of possibility the toxicology results have been released to the defense and not to the public.
Lanie

 

[Gma Kat]

Hmmm....I'm wondering why Geraldo even led him into that statement, though by bringing up Caylee? G says, "...they way you tested poor little Caylee's, the baby's hair..." Dr B: - almost correcting him, "yeah...found chloroform in the baby's hair."....it was like he was correcting him - No, Geraldo - we didn't just test the baby's hair, we found chloroform.

Hubris gets 'em everytime....

 

[watcher9]

HLN is getting ready to talk about a link about possible chloroform in Caylee's hair..

 

[JustJax]

HLN is getting ready to talk about a link about possible chloroform in Caylee's hair..

I put a thread up about it. They did not spend too much time on it but I think we may hear more that we can discuss from Jane and Nancy ater.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81550

 

[Theonly1]

Something that I have wondered about is how Caylee's teeth were sort of spread about....how did they come loose from the jaw.????

O/T Answer:

Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in, but I read that baby teeth dislodge very easily from the jaw during decomp. Apparently, since the roots of many of the teeth aren't grown into the jaw they just tend to come loose.

 

[LCoastMom]

chloroform..this whole chloroform issue baffles me.. I am a little puzzled about where she got it.. and I have to assume she bought it or somehow got some from a manufacturer, the home made version of chloroform is too difficult to make, and too dangerous to handle.. one would have to make it about a spoonful at a time to have any degree of safety..
even if she did manage to buy some somewhere, it sure wouldn't be one's drug of choice for her purposes. It doesn't last long enough to use it for babysitting, as someone already pointed out. Better to use the baby cough syrup or many other drugs.

Still, it seems she may well have used it on Caylee.. I am wondering if it might have been used as a 'punishment'.. something like "Be quiet! or Mommy will make you be quiet..' or to control temper tantrums.
Perhaps it acted as a sedative in low doses, keeping little Caylee groggy and calm.

NG's producer purchased a bottle on line for $45. She had to check a box saying she was legally "allowed" to handle/use/whatever the qualifier was.

Chloroform causes severe nausea and headaches I can't imagine a whiny healthy baby vs a sick calm baby would be worth the trade off. That's just me tho. Of course had she used it once she could always use it as a threat in the future.

I'm not completely on board with regular use of chloroform for all the reasons above (mine and yours). But I feel chloroform came into this crime somewhere.

 

[Searchfortruth]

NG said tonight that MB has said that his statement about the chloroform in Caylee's hair was a misstatement.

 

[AmyDC]

Maybe she only used the chloroform once, the night Caylee died.

 

[watcher9]

Just heard on Greta that she will have Dr. Baden on tonight. I assume it's the same guy.

 

[cyberborg]

Just heard on Greta that she will have Dr. Baden on tonight. I assume it's the same guy.

Yes --- DDC.

Defense Damage Control courtesy of Fox News.

 

[jamielynn]

NG said tonight that MB has said that his statement about the chloroform in Caylee's hair was a misstatement.

MB & LKB tagged teamed with each other to let Phil Spector walk in his first trail. I have had no respect for either of them since then.

 

[watcher9]

Just heard on Greta that she will have Dr. Baden on tonight. I assume it's the same guy.

I guess I spoke too soon. Dr Baden was on but it was because of the tragic NRichardson skiing accident.

 

[debbie0604]

Debbie,

i'm kind of confused as to what you think it means about what Dr. Baden said. I am not a transcriptionist. However, I, too rewound that tape, many, many times and although they were talking about ANS, it was VERY clear to me Dr. Baden said yeah, where they found chloroform in the baby's hair.(Not exact words here, although I KNOW he said baby's hair)

I wanted to ask more about the syringe and bottle. What was this about exactly? I remember hearing briefly about it but don't recall much. It was in the bag with Caylee's remains or trunk, or where? Also, if your research is correct about chloroform being made out of pool shock, acetone and bleach, that is ABSOLUTELY something I can see KC doing, without A DOUBT in my mind. I mean we know there was at least some talk of chloroform in that group of friends, with RM ad thing about on his computer. KC was broke and had no money to buy it, or I guess she would have maybe bought it. But considering what she was going to use it for, I don't see it as a stretch at all, her thinking she could duplicate it herself. We have to remember this is KC's mindframe, not a reasonable person's fram of thinking. A normal person wouldn't think of a lot of the things KC did, this being one of them. Or not reporting our child missing for over a month!

And finally, oh, yes, you are absolutely right about my never wanting the police to need to look at my hard drive. I have always followed true crime, trials on court tv, news stories on crimes, etc and an issue with *advertiser censored* with an ex boyfriend and my teenage stepson, lol! So, whoa, would they think I'm a nutcase, if no one in my family would vouch for my computer histories. LOL

Hi Tracey!
I heard on NG that Dr. B "misspoke" regarding the statement of "chloroform in the baby's hair" on GR show. It was a "misstatement.........or what...ever." To my knowledge the autopsy results have not been released to the public yet, and the results of the toxicology, particularly of the hair, would be the autopsy report.

As far as KC making chloroform, I can only assume at this point from her searches online and from evidence collected at the home and chloroform in the car. I'm not sure if she made it or if she bought it. I know that some kids are known to have "chloroform parties" where they will partake in what is known as "huffing" where chloroform is sometimes mixed with other drugs and inhaled to get high. I don't know if she ever participated in this activity. I do know that on one occasion when someone asked about Caylee, she made reference about Caylee saying: "She is passed the #&%$ out." Makes me wonder what she was giving that poor baby at the time to make her pass out, otherwise why would she make a statement like that.....JMO

 

[jamielynn]

Maybe she only used the chloroform once, the night Caylee died.

Amy, IMO, I think she also used pesticides. I also feel they will find xanex in Caylee's hair.
Have been reading the police interviews with Lee Anthony. It is very creepy.