2009.03.14 Geraldo - Dr. Baden, Slip or Not on Chloroform In Caylee's hair test?

[LCoastMom]

Not trying to be argumentative at all...

But, wouldn't the ME's report have indicated something regarding chloroform as likely COD if this information was truly available via forensics on the hair???

I understand "in" the hair would mean peri-mortem...so...a technicality?

I'm just sayin'...

Would this have been added to the death certificate and isn't a death certificate public knowledge. Wouldn't anyone who has whatever ID the county asks for be able to get a copy of the death certificate?

 

[Ripley007]

In the American remake of this film, the lead character doesn't die from the chloroform...instead awakes to find herself buried alive...A fate worse than death and reminisant of little Jessica L's death. Sorry, too gruesome I know. The original film is a 4 star film however! Does LE know KC's film rental history?

 

[Ripley007]

In the American remake of this film, the lead character doesn't die from the chloroform...instead awakes to find herself buried alive...A fate worse than death and reminisant of little Jessica L's death. Sorry, too gruesome I know. The original film is a 4 star film however! Does LE know KC's film rental history?

Now I've really got myself wondering if there is a connection. Trying to remember if duct tape was ever used in either film. Think I will re-watch both versions again this week and let you all know if I see any further connections...

 

[LCoastMom]

Back in the early 1970s, our biology class in college was expected to gather a "bug" collection. We were told to go to the instructor and get our CHLOROFORM and cotton balls to keep in a bottle to kill the insect once we'd caught it. Now, I can't even remember how I did that (killed the insect w/the chloroform), but I did it and had a nice collection of butterflies, moths, bugs galore.

Mostly, I would use this opportunity to get to go galavanting with a cute guy. They loved to ask the girl: "Would you like to go bug-hunting with me Saturday out in the nature preserve (woods!). Oh YEAH!

The chloroform was volatile, evaporated easily. I even sniffed it for a brief moment. I can't recall the smell now, either. I'm still alive.

Now, the defense might use this little bit of info: chloroform is released when you combine clenaing products that are labeled "antibacterial", such as the Soft Soap, with BLEACH.

Notice how the labels in tiny print read, do not combine with bleach. No one ever sees that! But the defense may use that in desperation, saying that KC's "cleaning products" in her trunk combined to form chloroform. Lame, isn't it?

http://www.editgrid.com/user/evi/FBI_Evidence_Tests

On the report from the FBI there was :

Residues of chloroform were identified or

Residues consistent with chloroform- no additional chemicals (eg,, acetone or alcohols)

found on:

Piece of spare tire cover (OCSO Item #22, Q-I8)
Spare tire cover (OCSO Item #26, Q21)
Left side of trunk liner (OCSO Item #25, Q-20)
Right side of trunk liner (OCSO Item #24, Q-19)

Piece of spare tire cover (OCSO Item # 2, Q-16)
Q44-I/Q45-l(swabbings from Q44 and Q45 were combined
Piece of spare tire cover (OCSO Item II 31, Q-24)

this is not an air sample these are 6 places found in the trunk that contained pure chloroform. In other words not chloroform made at home that would likely still show bi-product of whatever was used to make it or chloroform found in cleaning products that would contain other chemical residue. This is just chloroform in it's most pure state.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Would this have been added to the death certificate and isn't a death certificate public knowledge. Wouldn't anyone who has whatever ID the county asks for be able to get a copy of the death certificate?

It was my understanding that when the ID of Caylee was made public, press conference Dr. G, they were awaiting test results of the hair for toxicology. She said that results wouldn't provide a cause of death, but possibly some history of drugging. I don't have a link, just going off my memory of the press conference. I thought she had mentioned that hair was being tested at that time...anyone else remember this ?

 

[DebC]

Curious, would a fingernail still be present on a finger if a finger was indeed part of the skeletal remains? (Sorry if too graphic) Could a fingernail be tested for drugs?

I've always wondered if they found Caylee's little nails.
I do believe that nails can be tested for drugs. I think arsenic being one, but I'm not at all sure about chloroform.

 

[BondJamesBond]

It was my understanding that when the ID of Caylee was made public, press conference Dr. G, they were awaiting test results of the hair for toxicology. She said that results wouldn't provide a cause of death, but possibly some history of drugging. I don't have a link, just going off my memory of the press conference. I thought she had mentioned that hair was being tested at that time...anyone else remember this ?

That's correct, SFT. :thumb: Marina had to remind me of this earlier.

 

[Ripley007]

Something that has always bugged me is HOW could any of the three of them (KC,CA or GA) have cleaned the trunk if LIVE maggots were readily found??? this makes me think the chloroform was from Caylee's death, even though I don't subscribe to that theory.

 

[natsound]

I'm not sure what your point is here. I'm begging anyone to provide evidence that the State has given any hairs (from vehicle or body) to the defense for testing.

HD, I don't think there is proof that the defense has been given hairs for testing. What many of us are wondering is, if Baden really did slip up and he's aware there is indeed chloroform in Caylee's hair strand(s), does he know this BECAUSE defense found it on their own? Or did the state find it and share it with the defense under cover?

OR, was Baden just being careless in his dialogue, and Hercule suggests?

 

[fortytwo]

HD, I don't think there is proof that the defense has been given hairs for testing. What many of us are wondering is, if Baden really did slip up and he's aware there is indeed chloroform in Caylee's hair strand(s), does he know this BECAUSE defense found it on their own? Or did the state find it and share it with the defense under cover?

OR, was Baden just being careless in his dialogue, and Hercule suggests?

For what it's worth, I'm inclined to agree with Herc.

 

[Baxter]

WRT the discussion of KC's alleged used of chloroform, I was just wondering if KC might have used it to knock Caylee out quickly and then the Xanax or Benadryl would keep her out?

IIRC there was a text(s) from KC talking about Caylee wasn't asleep yet, maybe KC's discovery of chloroform was, being an impatient party girl -- she could drug Caylee and then knock her out with chloroform and go party, leaving the drug to keep her out.

Just a thought but nothing surprises me in this case anymore.

I also thought when Cindy would watch Caylee for Casey, she told her that Caylee had to be asleep before she could leave. Maybe that is where the chloroform babysitter started. She would give her a dose of chloroform , watch her fall asleep, tell Cindy she is asleep and leave to go out and party. When Cindy would no longer babysit, maybe that's where the xanax or benadryl came into play.

 

[zoey]

HD, I don't think there is proof that the defense has been given hairs for testing. What many of us are wondering is, if Baden really did slip up and he's aware there is indeed chloroform in Caylee's hair strand(s), does he know this BECAUSE defense found it on their own? Or did the state find it and share it with the defense under cover?

OR, was Baden just being careless in his dialogue, and Hercule suggests?

ca gave them the good brush that was used only on Caylee---whether or not they tested it?????????

 

[Wisteria]

Good Morning all! I never post so forgive me in advance...
1. I doubt that Baden knows anything we don't. I think this was a slip. He is not an expert in this case and I doubt his wife has this info yet either, since we don't have it and the defense is complaining that they haven't seen forensics. Unless this info was included for their private viewing with the autopsy stuff we don't get.
2. Baez is trying with all his might to make it look like CSI messed up in collecting evidence in the car so that it will not be admissable in court. IMO that car is the BIGGEST link between Casey and Caylee's death. Plus,it proves that Casey drove around callously with a dead body in her trunk for days. (SO SAD- I am a mom with a sick baby today and I can't imagine this callous act AT ALL).
3. I think that the hairs with the death band were tested right away in toxicology. I believe that if chloroform was to be found, it could have been found in the hair from the car.
4. After finding Caylee's body, they could then MATCH the hairs found in the car with the hairs found on the body. Tesing of these hairs may be different due to being exposed to the elements for so long. HOWEVER- the hair from the trunk would still be more preserved.
5. This is exactly why Baez wants Casey's car out of evidence if at all possible. The car contains the chloroform, evidence of a dead body and particularly, that HAIR- which more than likely holds the biggest TOX clues. Not to mention all the circumstancial evidence with that car and the gas, etc.

Please correct me if I am wrong. THese thought have been in my mind since the day they found our Caylee.

 

[Ripley007]

I also thought when Cindy would watch Caylee for Casey, she told her that Caylee had to be asleep before she could leave. Maybe that is where the chloroform babysitter started. She would give her a dose of chloroform , watch her fall asleep, tell Cindy she is asleep and leave to go out and party. When Cindy would no longer babysit, maybe that's where the xanax or benadryl came into play.

It's ironic that I'm a poster who's been chatting about chloroform "in the movies" and yet I doubt KC's use of chloroform so strongly. In "REAL" life, I believe I've read that chloroform leaves burns on the skin. It kills more often than not...It's not the "easy" knock out drug as portrayed in the movies...
I do not buy it. Never have. KC put duct tape across Caylee's mouth and then shoved a pillow into her face till she was dead. Case closed.

 

[coco puff]

It's ironic that I'm a poster who's been chatting about chloroform "in the movies" and yet I doubt KC's use of chloroform so strongly. In "REAL" life, I believe I've read that chloroform leaves burns on the skin. It kills more often than not...It's not the "easy" knock out drug as portrayed in the movies...
I do not buy it. Never have. KC put duct tape across Caylee's mouth and then shoved a pillow into her face till she was dead. Case closed.

I too believed she smothered her daughter. It amazed me that the defense makes such a huge deal out of the CAUSE of death being unknown. Since KC said there was no accident, and we know she IS dead and we know about the duct tape and trash bags, etc. knowing how the perp chose to kill her doesn't make her any less dead. Maybe I just don't get it.

 

[amethyst221]

It was my understanding that when the ID of Caylee was made public, press conference Dr. G, they were awaiting test results of the hair for toxicology. She said that results wouldn't provide a cause of death, but possibly some history of drugging. I don't have a link, just going off my memory of the press conference. I thought she had mentioned that hair was being tested at that time...anyone else remember this ?

Yes, and I went back yesterday and found video of her statement when she id'd the remains as Caylee's. It was just her statement, no follow up questioning, if there was any. She said they did not yet have tox results from hair and bone, and while they might be informative, they wouldn't likely change COD asssessment. She said she'd love to discuss it all, but would not, in advance of trial.

As far as any testing by the defense once they had the remains -- IF they even did any- there wouldn't be chain of custody issues that apply to the state. They just need to have proper experts to do any tests or analyses and to show they followed proper methods, etc.

 

[ibyoungr]

It's ironic that I'm a poster who's been chatting about chloroform "in the movies" and yet I doubt KC's use of chloroform so strongly. In "REAL" life, I believe I've read that chloroform leaves burns on the skin. It kills more often than not...It's not the "easy" knock out drug as portrayed in the movies...
I do not buy it. Never have. KC put duct tape across Caylee's mouth and then shoved a pillow into her face till she was dead. Case closed.

:clap:
I have said all along I think she smothered her.
To stay on topic, I listened to the clip and I think Baden was misstating and was trying to say in Caylee's case it would be revelant because cause of death was unknown. In Anna Nicole it was irrevelant because the cause of death is known.

 

[Ripley007]

I too believed she smothered her daughter. It amazed me that the defense makes such a huge deal out of the CAUSE of death being unknown. Since KC said there was no accident, and we know she IS dead and we know about the duct tape and trash bags, etc. knowing how the perp chose to kill her doesn't make her any less dead. Maybe I just don't get it.

KC had an "easy out" from the very beginning. Even after being arrested for murder, so much of the poulation wanted to GIVE KC an easy out...just admit she died in a tragic acciedent "on your watch". The backyard swimming pool!!! EASY OUT! But KC didn't take the bait. Why? Cause she knows she deliberatly MURDERED Caylee and she STUPIDLY thinks she's going to to get away with it. I don't see how. What does KC see that we don't? What's her "out"? Blaming ZG isn't going to fly, she knows that already, so what's her "second choice"?

 

[natsound]

If they find chloroform in the hair, absorbed in the hair stands, I'd bet it was used to kill Caylee.

 

[Spangle]

WOW - just after SA and LE ordered NO MORE LEAKS! I think we can guess where this one came from . . .:shocked2:

Normally I would agree. But the Anthony group has been very friendly with him. So just because he mentioned it, doens't mean that LE is the ones that told him. He could have just as easily been told by Dr. Baden or JB himself.