2009.05.05~ Casey Anthony Defense Team Deposition Of Tammy Uncer

[Seebra]

Popular opinion seems to be that JB is making a fuss about nothing/ wasting time and money on a pointless exercise/wouldn't know a legitimate breach of KC's rights if it hit him in the face etc, and these perceptions may or may not be accurate, but what about LKB and TM? They are both very experienced and successful attorneys by all accounts and yet they too seem to think that the issue of the jail tape is worth their personal appearance in court and their time and effort in arguing the relevant motion/taking the depositions.

IMO, either they have both lost the plot entirely or there is some substance to JB's concerns on this issue. I understand that many think these 2 attorneys (and the rest) must be in this for future professional and/or financial gain, but would an established attorney really be willing to make an *advertiser censored** of himself by supporting/assisting foolish and meritless courses of action in the hope of maybe benefiting in the future?

IMO, and only MO, there is SOMETING BIG on that tape - perhaps a confession, or body language suggestive of one, perhaps some inappropriate behavior between Jose and KC, something that Jose is AFRAID of being made public, which is why this is a big deal.

Other than whatever is frightening Jose (and thus the other defense Attys), I CANNOT fathom why the release of this tape would HURT the defense, if KC's reaction was one of emotions that have not yet been expressed... know what I mean?

 

[Marina2]

Popular opinion seems to be that JB is making a fuss about nothing/ wasting time and money on a pointless exercise/wouldn't know a legitimate breach of KC's rights if it hit him in the face etc, and these perceptions may or may not be accurate, but what about LKB and TM? They are both very experienced and successful attorneys by all accounts and yet they too seem to think that the issue of the jail tape is worth their personal appearance in court and their time and effort in arguing the relevant motion/taking the depositions.

IMO, either they have both lost the plot entirely or there is some substance to JB's concerns on this issue. I understand that many think these 2 attorneys (and the rest) must be in this for future professional and/or financial gain, but would an established attorney really be willing to make an *advertiser censored** of himself by supporting/assisting foolish and meritless courses of action in the hope of maybe benefiting in the future?

The relevance in arguing this motion is that it taints the jury pool. Experienced and successful attorneys will do this if they have no other defense to the charges. It doesn't matter if the motion is pointless or irrelevant. The hope is that the public will think KC is being treated unfairly by LE and the judge. These attorneys have made numerous media appearances making the same claims. They've filed erroneous motions that, imo, were an attempt to gain more face time in court to further their cause. It's a tactic that's commonly used by experienced attorneys We've heard it before from the best attorneys...my poor client...her rights were violated...it's a big conspiracy...they are out to get her..and on and on. If the judge rules against their motion, it gives even more credence to their claims. "See, even the judge is out to get her." The reality that the motion is pointless doesn't matter. All it takes is one juror to believe their BS.

ETA: Your post illustrates my point. You feel there must be some substance to this claim since experienced and successful attorneys are making the assertion.

 

[Marina2]

T.U. may feel that many of the rules in jail are mean (and some are) but that doesn't mean they violate the inmates' rights.

 

[amethyst221]

Popular opinion seems to be that JB is making a fuss about nothing/ wasting time and money on a pointless exercise/wouldn't know a legitimate breach of KC's rights if it hit him in the face etc, and these perceptions may or may not be accurate, but what about LKB and TM? They are both very experienced and successful attorneys by all accounts and yet they too seem to think that the issue of the jail tape is worth their personal appearance in court and their time and effort in arguing the relevant motion/taking the depositions.

IMO, either they have both lost the plot entirely or there is some substance to JB's concerns on this issue. I understand that many think these 2 attorneys (and the rest) must be in this for future professional and/or financial gain, but would an established attorney really be willing to make an *advertiser censored** of himself by supporting/assisting foolish and meritless courses of action in the hope of maybe benefiting in the future?

I think of course they are posturing to keep something they don't want seen from being made public, and are thus attempting to portray their client as a terribly abused, cruelly treated, innocent mourning mother in dire need of attention to her "tearing." Events took place in the general clinic area of the jail, so they are trying to make it a medical privacy case, etc. They are defending her, making their own claims and contentions about the law and the facts and how they should be interpreted. This is an evidentiary matter. The fact that all the defense attorneys who may be more . . . . adept than JB join in doesn't in and of itself make it so. If every member of the prosecution team signs a motion they file, that doesn't mean they have to be right. The court will hear from both sides before ruling. Every lawyer should have some minimal, colorable basis for filing everything they file, yet thousands of baseless, frivolous motions and pleadings are probably being filed as we speak, all over the USA.

 

[Jolynna]

Popular opinion seems to be that JB is making a fuss about nothing/ wasting time and money on a pointless exercise/wouldn't know a legitimate breach of KC's rights if it hit him in the face etc, and these perceptions may or may not be accurate, but what about LKB and TM? They are both very experienced and successful attorneys by all accounts and yet they too seem to think that the issue of the jail tape is worth their personal appearance in court and their time and effort in arguing the relevant motion/taking the depositions.

IMO, either they have both lost the plot entirely or there is some substance to JB's concerns on this issue. I understand that many think these 2 attorneys (and the rest) must be in this for future professional and/or financial gain, but would an established attorney really be willing to make an *advertiser censored** of himself by supporting/assisting foolish and meritless courses of action in the hope of maybe benefiting in the future?

LKB and TM are going along with it because Casey's defense will be an incompetent & a tunnel visioned investigation as well as gross unfair tactics from LE and SAs.

That defense calls for lots of posturing and dramatics about the corrupt system.

It is like when Caylee's body was found and Lee & LKB and a bunch of defense experts were filmed standing in the road complaining because they were not allowed to "help" the investigators process the scene.

IMO

 

[impatientredhead]

Popular opinion seems to be that JB is making a fuss about nothing/ wasting time and money on a pointless exercise/wouldn't know a legitimate breach of KC's rights if it hit him in the face etc, and these perceptions may or may not be accurate, but what about LKB and TM? They are both very experienced and successful attorneys by all accounts and yet they too seem to think that the issue of the jail tape is worth their personal appearance in court and their time and effort in arguing the relevant motion/taking the depositions.

IMO, either they have both lost the plot entirely or there is some substance to JB's concerns on this issue. I understand that many think these 2 attorneys (and the rest) must be in this for future professional and/or financial gain, but would an established attorney really be willing to make an *advertiser censored** of himself by supporting/assisting foolish and meritless courses of action in the hope of maybe benefiting in the future?

They probably don't think they are making asses of themselves.
They probably view it more in terms of calculating, brilliant strategy.
And the lure of the bright lights and hopes of future pay days motivates a lot of people to do things that involve setting all diginity at the door.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I understand all of the legal issues & aspects and agree that the defense is likely going for the misconduct strategy. And I feel badly for TU for being a part of this just because of her job.

Still, when the SA cross examines Tammy, I hope she asks, "And do you also think that what Ms. Anthony did to Caylee was mean? Cruel?"

 

[ThoughtElf]

IMO, and only MO, there is SOMETING BIG on that tape - perhaps a confession, or body language suggestive of one, perhaps some inappropriate behavior between Jose and KC, something that Jose is AFRAID of being made public, which is why this is a big deal.

Other than whatever is frightening Jose (and thus the other defense Attys), I CANNOT fathom why the release of this tape would HURT the defense, if KC's reaction was one of emotions that have not yet been expressed... know what I mean?

Big smile about the football game?

 

[jeepgirlva]

The relevance in arguing this motion is that it taints the jury pool. Experienced and successful attorneys will do this if they have no other defense to the charges. It doesn't matter if the motion is pointless or irrelevant. The hope is that the public will think KC is being treated unfairly by LE and the judge. These attorneys have made numerous media appearances making the same claims. They've filed erroneous motions that, imo, were an attempt to gain more face time in court to further their cause. It's a tactic that's commonly used by experienced attorneys We've heard it before from the best attorneys...my poor client...her rights were violated...it's a big conspiracy...they are out to get her..and on and on. If the judge rules against their motion, it gives even more credence to their claims. "See, even the judge is out to get her." The reality that the motion is pointless doesn't matter. All it takes is one juror to believe their BS.

ETA: Your post illustrates my point. You feel there must be some substance to this claim since experienced and successful attorneys are making the assertion.

When I read the Richardson Depo I felt a twinge of sympathy for KC (but quickly snapped back to reality) ITA defense will play this in the media for all it's worth if the tape is released it shows KC having a breakdown (showing emotion) for her daughter there again more sympathy....


Defense will want to pick juror's who mistrust LE thats the only chance KC has. Defense prolly wants the tape released just putting up a fight for show. IMO i don't think the state need to do this to get a conviction.

 

[missy8394]

Here are the indexed words from the "Min-U-Script for page 47. I guess starting with line #1 on page 47 it would be the end of the previous "Q". I didn't put them in any order, just the way I pulled them off the index. I wonder if not including this page was an oversight?

1 body casey connect remains finding
2 mind
3 mind
4
5 assumed knew office sheriff
6 talking
7 way
8 call ones phone
9 call captain found
10 remains
11 remains found
12 remains found body
13 remains found
14 child small body
15 inmate only conversation
16 anthony talked
17
18 inmate
19
20 right
21
22 mind
23 anthony's mean remains found
24 daughter

 

[lin]

Exactly, Fae. It is kind of like when Police sometimes stage an interview room with crime scene photos in order to rattle a witness during an interview. Is it cruel? Maybe but I doubt it it illegal.

Mind you, Casey was "in custody" and already charged for her crime and under the care of an attorney. Baez is arguing that she was waiting to see him (or he was waiting to see her or both). It's not like the jail officials were asking her questions about her obvious physical reactions like, "Hey Casey, do you think it's Caylee?" "Who do you think did it?" "Have you ever been to that location? Didn't you play there as a child?"

Only her body did the testifying...

Isn't it interesting that she asked for her attorney when unidentified remains were found? That alone speaks of consciousness of guilt rather than grief for her child, imo.

 

[lin]

Popular opinion seems to be that JB is making a fuss about nothing/ wasting time and money on a pointless exercise/wouldn't know a legitimate breach of KC's rights if it hit him in the face etc, and these perceptions may or may not be accurate, but what about LKB and TM? They are both very experienced and successful attorneys by all accounts and yet they too seem to think that the issue of the jail tape is worth their personal appearance in court and their time and effort in arguing the relevant motion/taking the depositions.

IMO, either they have both lost the plot entirely or there is some substance to JB's concerns on this issue. I understand that many think these 2 attorneys (and the rest) must be in this for future professional and/or financial gain, but would an established attorney really be willing to make an *advertiser censored** of himself by supporting/assisting foolish and meritless courses of action in the hope of maybe benefiting in the future?

They also say she's "innocent" etc. Doesn't mean it's true or that they believe it.

 

[lin]

T.U. may feel that many of the rules in jail are mean (and some are) but that doesn't mean they violate the inmates' rights.

I think she was manipulated into saying that, honestly. For the life of me I can't understand anything "mean" about taking her to where she can see/hear the breaking news that may be about her child, particularly when there is a psychologist or psychiatrist there with her. Or to see/hear breaking news that may be related to something KC does care about, her case. At no time did KC break down; at no time did she complain; it was made clear to her that no one there wanted to discuss her case. In fact, the picture painted kind of gagged me as it seemed, once again, to be all about coddling the prisoner. 'Are you sure you are not going to hurt yourself?' 'Oh, she's had enough, let's get her away from tv and give her more one on one attention, just like she craves.'

I totally agree with those who have suggested that had LE/jail authorities left KC in the cold, did not make her the focus of so much extra special attention, then the fuss would be about poor KC being left so alone in her isolated cell to hear this news from other inmates and on the radio. Now that may have actually been mean, had it happened that way.

 

[lin]

I think of course they are posturing to keep something they don't want seen from being made public, and are thus attempting to portray their client as a terribly abused, cruelly treated, innocent mourning mother in dire need of attention to her "tearing." Events took place in the general clinic area of the jail, so they are trying to make it a medical privacy case, etc. They are defending her, making their own claims and contentions about the law and the facts and how they should be interpreted. This is an evidentiary matter. The fact that all the defense attorneys who may be more . . . . adept than JB join in doesn't in and of itself make it so. If every member of the prosecution team signs a motion they file, that doesn't mean they have to be right. The court will hear from both sides before ruling. Every lawyer should have some minimal, colorable basis for filing everything they file, yet thousands of baseless, frivolous motions and pleadings are probably being filed as we speak, all over the USA.

(emphasis added)

Great post all around; very insightful. As for the bolded, it wasn't just for the tearing, remember. Let's be fair. There was also that breathing thing she was doing (deliberately) and the hand rubbing that had to be as annoying as all get out. lol

 

[lin]

Big smile about the football game?

ding ding ding -- we may have a winner here, folks.

 

[lin]

Here are the indexed words from the "Min-U-Script for page 47. I guess starting with line #1 on page 47 it would be the end of the previous "Q". I didn't put them in any order, just the way I pulled them off the index. I wonder if not including this page was an oversight?

1 body casey connect remains finding
2 mind
3 mind
4
5 assumed knew office sheriff
6 talking
7 way
8 call ones phone
9 call captain found
10 remains
11 remains found
12 remains found body
13 remains found
14 child small body
15 inmate only conversation
16 anthony talked
17
18 inmate
19
20 right
21
22 mind
23 anthony's mean remains found
24 daughter

Wow, great catch. I find #1 particularly interesting. But all around terrific find, thanks.

ETA: I'll try to find some to add to the great list you have going.

 

[DotsEyes]

Her reaction was one of panic. The jig was up.

LE has every right to observe an inmate's reaction to the news of the crime he or she committed. They can spy on inmates.

My understanding is that the Sheriff's Office called the Captain and told them of the "find". The remains were not yet identified and they wanted to see her reaction before there was an ID. There is only one TV where KC could remain in protective custody and see a TV and it was in the seating areas of the medical facility. There was a nurse and a Doctor was there after being called to observe and attend to KC.

Was it Lt. Uncer who told the media KC's response and that she requested a sedative?

"She's had enough" sounds like something the Dr. would say and is the only one with the credentials and authority to make that call. Being upset is not critical. Am I reading this right, she was in front of the tv for all of 10 minutes and didn't watch it, just listened?

He has Lt. Uncer saying that it was cruel to make KC listen to the TV for 10 minutes and suffer. Rubbing her hands together really fast the whole time- "look my hands are all red and sweaty with bumbs". DUH, I guess. Hyperventilating with her head in her lap, "these cuffs are getting tighter". Is that a metaphor? I am really bad on that. Hyperventilating. Really? I think this is just one more trick in her magic bag.
And KC, honey, sweetheart, things are only going to get worse from here, gotta tell ya'.

"Everything has been taken away from me." Not yet, KC. You still have the privilege of protective custody and a lovely dorm all to yourself.

 

[GingBreade]

Her reaction was one of panic. The jig was up.

LE has every right to observe an inmate's reaction to the news of the crime he or she committed. They can spy on inmates.

My understanding is that the Sheriff's Office called the Captain and told them of the "find". The remains were not yet identified and they wanted to see her reaction before there was an ID. There is only one TV where KC could remain in protective custody and see a TV and it was in the seating areas of the medical facility. There was a nurse and a Doctor was there after being called to observe and attend to KC.

Was it Lt. Uncer who told the media KC's response and that she requested a sedative?

"She's had enough" sounds like something the Dr. would say and is the only one with the credentials and authority to make that call. Being upset is not critical. Am I reading this right, she was in front of the tv for all of 10 minutes and didn't watch it, just listened?

He has Lt. Uncer saying that it was cruel to make KC listen to the TV for 10 minutes and suffer. Rubbing her hands together really fast the whole time- "look my hands are all red and sweaty with bumbs". DUH, I guess. Hyperventilating with her head in her lap, "these cuffs are getting tighter". Is that a metaphor? I am really bad on that. Hyperventilating. Really? I think this is just one more trick in her magic bag.
And KC, honey, sweetheart, things are only going to get worse from here, gotta tell ya'.

"Everything has been taken away from me." Not yet, KC. You still have the privilege of protective custody and a lovely dorm all to yourself.

Hehe! I have to laugh about your last comment...KC SO thinks she is in some type of college dorm or something. In all those jail tapes she would always refer to her cell as her "room"..."Cindy (mom! 'her' 'she') would say "Oh I hope we didn't bother you" and KC would say "Oh no problem I was just reading in my room"..."Yeah they came and got me from my room"..."Oh I was just sleeping in my room and they announced you were here"...haha what a joke.

In a year or so she will be saying "Bertha my keeper I mean roommate my parents are here can I go talk to them?"

 

[DotsEyes]

I think she faked her reaction and was once again only worried about her self. "Look at my hands" see how upset I am? "Stay with me" so I can convince you that I am upset. "It's surreal, it's not real, I can't cry." Did she say this before the ID was made? Hmm. Instead of "it's not Caylee, it can't be Caylee, oh God no it can't be my baby!" she gets a rash and explains that she can't cry. I suggest her "rash" was from bending over and breathing too fast and shallow.

But, she knew it was Caylee before there was an ID.

 

[Daylight/1257]

I'm sure the camera was not there for the princess to make a screen test. This area of the jail is the one area where sedatives and other drugs would be located. The combination of prisoners and medication has the potential to get volatile. For the protection of the employees cameras need to be running. And as for the tv, they gave her freewill whether to listen or watch as she saw fit. Can you imagine the outcry from the defense if jail authorities had denied this young mother access to the news of the recovery of what was very likely her baby girl? It was the humane gesture to make sure medical help was there to attend her if needed.

After the meltdown during the visit with her parents over whose turn it was to talk, how could anyone guess what state she might be in. A head banging, wall pounding fit had to be considered. If she turned up with contusions and lacerations, the defense would be all over it claiming she had been beaten to try to get her to confess.

Had this tape been taped over, the evidence that no one had laid a hand on her would have been forever lost.