2009.12.09 discovery docs to be released today

[Eidetic]

Casey clearly has a french manicure in the pictures of she and Caylee at Ricardo's, where she is holding the Rock Band guitar.
Do we have dates on manicures for Miss Priss before 6/16 in someones timeline?

The pictures are bothering me (besides the obvious reason of Caylees t-shirt) because of the length of both girls hair.

 

[BondJamesBond]

...any reason this hasn't been split out into a couple of threads? Thread to discuss the pics...and thread to discuss water report?

Jus' sayin'...

 

[Kentjbkent]

Didn't a picture surface of Caylee in Ricardo's apartment when she apparently hit her head (eye) on a coffee table?

What am I recalling....?????

 

[RR0004]

Thanks for pointing that out. I used that link because I liked the daily rainfall rates vs. rainfall for the whole month. I noticed my link was the same one Valhall used on her blog. Do you know of any other links that provide accurate archive information about daily rainfall in Orlando for summer 2008? TIA

To be honest with you, when I was checking they weren't the only ones with discrepencies. I've even done day-by-day history analysis on some sites. I had posted another site that seemed to be a good average of a few...I'll try and find it.

ETA: National Weather Service...but I'm not sure this is right either...I took a compilation of different sites to get at the truth. Thanks for posting the weatherunderground...I have never seen this...they are so much more detailed then when I've used them in the past for international. I really do appreciate all that you do Harmony. I learn a lot from you.

 

[reeseeva]

I understand that latent prints (which is what LE tested for) are easily lost on non porous items like the pop cans, plastic, etc., however the pizza box, the Copenhagen can, the cherry coke carton, the empty velveeta cartons, the Italian bread wrapper, or any one of the three receipts should have yielded at least one single print.
A few prints and I wouldn’t be thinking anything was odd here, but to me zero prints will raise a red flag for the defense. Perhaps I have been watching way too many CSI programs, but geez, not one single print. This is evidence that was at one time inside one of the most important areas of this case, the trunk. I have concerns that the white trash bag was contaminated by insects while spending the 30ish hours in the dumpster, but I fully expected the trash to yield multiple fingerprints from those who spent time in the apartment where the white trash bag came from.
I also cannot understand why they did not check for prints immediately. Simply because the white trash bag was at one time in the trunk, I would have thought it would be very important to make certain there were no unknown prints on or in that white trash bag. If the trunk is such a vital part of the overall evidence, I would think they would want all the information they could get from anything in the trunk.
I apologize for going on and on about this, but recently in another thread, LE seemed to take a long time to secure the trunk and impound the Pontiac. So, finding something like zero prints on all those items is disturbing to me. Also not even checking for prints until nearly 15 months after the car and white trash bag were brought in, is unsettling to me.
So please someone, anyone give me a logical reason why zero prints is okay, and why nothing in the above post is anything to be concerned about. TIA

BBM

I don't recall the trash bag being in the dumpster for "30ish hours"??:waitasec::waitasec: This is why, I feel, we can't just put statements like this out there, unless verified!

I believe it was only a matter of hours.......Can anyone clarify this?

TIA

 

[momtective]

Casey clearly has a french manicure in the pictures of she and Caylee at Ricardo's, where she is holding the Rock Band guitar.
Do we have dates on manicures for Miss Priss before 6/16 in someones timeline?

The pictures are bothering me (besides the obvious reason of Caylees t-shirt) because of the length of both girls hair.

BBM As a matter of fact I think we do. Going to look now.:crazy:

 

[TakeNote]

BBM

I don't recall the trash bag being in the dumpster for "30ish hours"??:waitasec::waitasec: This is why, I feel, we can't just put statements like this out there, unless verified!

I believe it was only a matter of hours.......Can anyone clarify this?

TIA

there is discussion on the revisted the trunk pontiac thread....last i read....posters have come to the conclusion that yes....the trash bag was in the garbage at the tow yard for a loooong time......yikes!

if the conclusions are true....per what LE says.....then no finger prints on the trash bag and all the junk inside....well.....i could see how defense could try and get that bag thrown out....even though logic tells us otherwise.....if i was part of the jury....and had NO prior knowledge of the case.....i would have second thoughts with that bag..........i dont like posting that either!

 

[BondJamesBond]

BBM

I don't recall the trash bag being in the dumpster for "30ish hours"??:waitasec::waitasec: This is why, I feel, we can't just put statements like this out there, unless verified!

I believe it was only a matter of hours.......Can anyone clarify this?

TIA

FWIW....

Trash bag went into the dumpster ~1:50PM 7/15
Trash bag came out of the dumpster ~9:50PM 7/16

...31 hrs.

 

[TakeNote]

FWIW....

Trash bag went into the dumpster ~1:50PM 7/15
Trash bag came out of the dumpster ~9:50PM 7/16

...31 hrs.

:banghead:

 

[Searchfortruth]

I have done a very brief amount of reading on finger prints and found that heat and humidity tend to degrade the finger prints...both of which are in abundance in Florida, during the summer.

Also, is it correct that this bag and it's contents were just recently tested for finger prints, on October 6 of this year ? I read that somewhere, tonight, but can't post a link as it's not a news outlet.

 

[momtective]

Casey clearly has a french manicure in the pictures of she and Caylee at Ricardo's, where she is holding the Rock Band guitar.
Do we have dates on manicures for Miss Priss before 6/16 in someones timeline?

The pictures are bothering me (besides the obvious reason of Caylees t-shirt) because of the length of both girls hair.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2843393&highlight=nails#post2843393 post 223 shows ping number for nail salon.

Amy H. Says: Casey had her nails done

July 1st Amy said Casey had her nails done.
Page 1046 Lines 13-17 Amy H. Interview with LE on 7/23/2008
http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/ah092308.pdf

 

[RR0004]

:banghead:

We have to remember...no one was dumpster diving...I would imagine that there is very little chance any other humans came in contact with it.
But, I still can't understand why there weren't fingerprints. There are always fingerprints on CSI (lol-just a little humor).

 

[logicalgirl]

FWIW....

Trash bag went into the dumpster ~1:50PM 7/15
Trash bag came out of the dumpster ~9:50PM 7/16

...31 hrs.

Can you help me out with the towyard's guy's name? Because I thought it was the morning after George picked up the car that he went flying over there in his pj's and slippers - only to find out the detectives had retrieved it the evening before.

 

[reeseeva]

Can you help me out with the towyard's guy's name? Because I thought it was the morning after George picked up the car that he went flying over there in his pj's and slippers - only to find out the detectives had retrieved it the evening before.

Exactly what I thought I remember reading.:waitasec:

 

[BondJamesBond]

Surely Zanny the Nanny didn't have a shirt just like this one by coincidence, and George and Cindy were ADAMANT in their depos they have never seen that shirt. Notice Casey's hair was the same length as around July 16, so I believe this photo is very important. Location aside , that is Casey and Caylee and that is what she was found in. This is going to be very helpful for the jury. Indeed.http://www.momlogic.com/cdn/v3/pdf/casey_anthony_detectives_report.pdf

pg. 3377 details

Im thinking that this was getting to be bedtime for Caylee and KC had put this outfit on her as PJ'S? at RM's IF this is true, Im thinking that Caylee was in her PJ'S when----- that is why no shoes were found. That is why she had her pull-up on. These are PJ'S. Caylee was either ----overnight,.

*snipped*

Precisely, WAISI. :thumb:

Is that a plaid blanket next to Caylee? Didn't Cindy say there was a plaid blanket missing from the contents of Caseys trunk?

Eidetic: I would be VERY interested to read about Cindy's comment re: plaid blanket if you can point me to it.

WAISI + World According = the following conclusion....

IMHO, Caylee was being/had been put down to sleep AWAY from G&C's 6/16 PM when she died.

If Eidetic locates the plaid blanket/pillow information that would further support IMHO.

ETA: "to sleep" vs. "to nap" WTH was I thinkin'. :shakehead:

 

[cecybeans]

I understand that latent prints (which is what LE tested for) are easily lost on non porous items like the pop cans, plastic, etc., however the pizza box, the Copenhagen can, the cherry coke carton, the empty velveeta cartons, the Italian bread wrapper, or any one of the three receipts should have yielded at least one single print.
A few prints and I wouldn’t be thinking anything was odd here, but to me zero prints will raise a red flag for the defense. Perhaps I have been watching way too many CSI programs, but geez, not one single print. This is evidence that was at one time inside one of the most important areas of this case, the trunk. I have concerns that the white trash bag was contaminated by insects while spending the 30ish hours in the dumpster, but I fully expected the trash to yield multiple fingerprints from those who spent time in the apartment where the white trash bag came from.
I also cannot understand why they did not check for prints immediately. Simply because the white trash bag was at one time in the trunk, I would have thought it would be very important to make certain there were no unknown prints on or in that white trash bag. If the trunk is such a vital part of the overall evidence, I would think they would want all the information they could get from anything in the trunk.
I apologize for going on and on about this, but recently in another thread, LE seemed to take a long time to secure the trunk and impound the Pontiac. So, finding something like zero prints on all those items is disturbing to me. Also not even checking for prints until nearly 15 months after the car and white trash bag were brought in, is unsettling to me.
So please someone, anyone give me a logical reason why zero prints is okay, and why nothing in the above post is anything to be concerned about. TIA

This is just moo, but unless something in the garbage bag was found with true evidentiary value, I don't think it's a big deal.

Concerning the bag itself, many people lift it out of a container with the drawstring and never touch the sides. LE friends have told me that items can be covered with prints that are smudged and unreadable. I've rolled over 2000 fingerprints myself for FBI checks and even when one is trying hard, small imperfections can get them bounced. Pressure, the amount of oil on the fingers, all kinds of things can interfere with getting a useable print for recognition purposes. With a partial, or with only part of a legible print you still need a certain number of identification points, or minutiae to make a clear recognition match. That's hard enough to do when you're trying and you have the entire finger or palm; it's much harder when people handle things and don't use their full finger or swipe something.

It does look on TV like recognizable fingerprints are everywhere, but that is not always the case. It is often very difficult to get fingerprints clean enough for positive identification of an individual or that would hold up in court as such. Zero prints does not necessarily mean no fingerprints whatsoever, as in wiped clean; it can just mean no identifiable prints. From the way I read the report no prints simply means no recognizable prints in this case.

But let's look at whose fingerprints should be on the bag of domestic trash - KC and anyone living at AL's apt. So what? The only reason fingerprints would be of interest, is if Caylee's were on something in the bag, to show she was alive while KC was staying there, and children's fingerprints fade more quickly than adults. So even if everyone at AL's including KC had fingerprints on items in the bag, they would only be of interest if a specific item in the bag had evidentiary value. Empty food cartons just don't relate to the crime as far as I can see. A knife, a bottle of medicine or something else would be of value and would make fp identification important, but old receipts and Velveeta cartons are pretty irrelevant to the case or to any alternate scenario we've seen or imagined.

I sense absence of a "stranger's" prints seems to be bothersome for some reason. IIRC, the date of the trash bag and its contents post-dates the expected time Caylee's remains would have left the car, so a bag of trash being put in (perhaps to simply cover the smell already there) the trunk by KC herself does not seem to have much evidentiary value. If it were somehow retrieved by someone else, it would require a cumbersome and convoluted story as to how they got access to KC's car and trunk to begin with.

 

[BeanE]

...any reason this hasn't been split out into a couple of threads? Thread to discuss the pics...and thread to discuss water report?

Jus' sayin'...

I wouldn't mind a thread about the lack of fingerprints too

 

[Harmony 2]

This is just moo, but unless something in the garbage bag was found with true evidentiary value, I don't think it's a big deal.

Concerning the bag itself, many people lift it out of a container with the drawstring and never touch the sides. LE friends have told me that items can be covered with prints that are smudged and unreadable. I've rolled over 2000 fingerprints myself for FBI checks and even when one is trying hard, small imperfections can get them bounced. Pressure, the amount of oil on the fingers, all kinds of things can interfere with getting a useable print for recognition purposes. With a partial, or with only part of a legible print you still need a certain number of identification points, or minutiae to make a clear recognition match. That's hard enough to do when you're trying and you have the entire finger or palm; it's much harder when people handle things and don't use their full finger or swipe something.

It does look on TV like recognizable fingerprints are everywhere, but that is not always the case. It is often very difficult to get fingerprints clean enough for positive identification of an individual or that would hold up in court as such. Zero prints does not necessarily mean no fingerprints whatsoever, as in wiped clean; it can just mean no identifiable prints. From the way I read the report no prints simply means no recognizable prints in this case.

But let's look at whose fingerprints should be on the bag of domestic trash - KC and anyone living at AL's apt. So what? The only reason fingerprints would be of interest, is if Caylee's were on something in the bag, to show she was alive while KC was staying there, and children's fingerprints fade more quickly than adults. So even if everyone at AL's including KC had fingerprints on items in the bag, they would only be of interest if a specific item in the bag had evidentiary value. Empty food cartons just don't relate to the crime as far as I can see. A knife, a bottle of medicine or something else would be of value and would make fp identification important, but old receipts and Velveeta cartons are pretty irrelevant to the case or to any alternate scenario we've seen or imagined.

I sense absence of a "stranger's" prints seems to be bothersome for some reason. IIRC, the date of the trash bag and its contents post-dates the expected time Caylee's remains would have left the car, so a bag of trash being put in (perhaps to simply cover the smell already there) the trunk by KC herself does not seem to have much evidentiary value. If it were somehow retrieved by someone else, it would require a cumbersome and convoluted story as to how they got access to KC's car and trunk to begin with.

Great points Cecy!! The only items of evidentiary value would be the paper towels. I would think because they are absorbent, it would be difficult to retrieve fingerprints from them.

 

[Melanie]

Thanks to these documents, it's now confirmed there was no smelly garbage in the trunk. The pizza box was EMPTY and folded. If you look at the following link:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2009-12/50978836.pdf

Pages 12392 and 12393

You won't find a single item that would make the car smell like a decomposed body. All items are wrappers, papers, or empty cartons.

This is going be a big hurdle for the defense to overcome. The smell didn't come from the trash -- where did it come from?

All the best,

Mel

 

[debbie0604]

Can you help me out with the towyard's guy's name? Because I thought it was the morning after George picked up the car that he went flying over there in his pj's and slippers - only to find out the detectives had retrieved it the evening before.

Towyard guy's name was Simon Burch, wasn't it?