2009.12.11 Discuss Motions hearing. One year to the day Caylee Found #1

[Phumi]

Seems like she would have had to be restrained just to get the first piece on her...

 

[wenwe4]

HOLY Carp! I just noticed that we have been ranting for 41 pages and over 1000 posts and not one of us has edited tags (for shame fellow WS'ers)

 

[Bittiness39]

Mostly what I see happening here is that people are disregarding the victim, Caylee. She died before her 3rd birthday. She never got the chance to live her life. While it is hard for some (and I really don't have any idea why since we see evidence of it every single day) to imagine a child dying at the hands of her own mother...it happens. There is proof. Likely Caylee suffered tremendously. It is hard to think about. Hard to even imagine. But she was the one stuffed in two garbage bags and a laundry bag and left to rot. I think KC cries for KC. She suffers. She can't get out of this. She was so ridiculous as to make up the fictious story and even more upset that she was forced, forced to PROVE it was true. Then got arrested. How dare they, these police officers...book her...stick her non-working unable to graduate from highschool (and who was given quite a few opportunities to graduate) grifter behind bars...how dare they?

 

[harleysnana]

After watching ....
There is a reason they fought so hard today against the death penalty…
IMO they know she is guilty and IMO they know she will be found guilty.
I think they are trying to save her life…. and that’s all they are trying to do!

JMO

 

[LambChop]

I will give you an example of how that little 2-year old would have been unable to remove the tape yet be fully unrestrained.

The first piece goes over the mouth/cheeks/ears/hair and is pressed firmly. Caylee is fully unrestrained (arms free to do anything) at that moment. She is unable to remove this single piece of tape without ripping out great quantities of her own hair. She can't even do it if she wants to because the hundreds of hair roots prevent themselves from being ripped out. No, she is going to be totally helpless to remove that duct tape on her own. And that is only the first piece.

That's one example but there would be others - such as necessary strength/leverage that the girl just doesn't have - or pain from the pulling which makes her instantly stop trying to get it off. It really hurts to pull off a piece of heavy duty duct tape from your skin, let alone your face.

She would not have to pull the first piece off, she could pull in down off her nose and mouth area. It is what a small child would do. Try putting a mask on a child...they pull it down. All four fingers up to their face, grab the tape with the fingers on both her hands and pull down. Unless you are stating that the tape was so tightly placed on this child's face that it would be impossible for her to pull the tape down? When you can't breath your instinct would be to pull it off or down.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

This is hard to answer because I don’t think she is being wrongly accused.

I also wanted to answer when you first posted your question.
I personally think that they way she acted today points more towards her
guilt and the reason I think it does is because IMO IF Kasey was innocent…
she should have been crying like this the INSTANT she realized Caylee was missing!

When you add all the facts together… waiting 31 days, getting pissed on her
first phone call home, etc etc… and yet she holds out until today to break
down when hearing what probably happened to Caylee…

It was making her sick to hear it because IMO she was re living the whole
thing in her head as he said it and she knows he is right!

This crying today is to little to late for an innocent person. IMO

She makes me sick!

The "Thanks" button just wasn't enough for me on this one.

:clap::clap::clap::clap: and double :clap:

 

[Searchfortruth]

Have the text messages between TL and KC been released yet from June15th - July 15th?

TYIA

Not that I know of, the texts on the 16th haven't been released either. These text messages, I am very much interested in hearing. LE was questioning TL on the conversations between him and Casey, during this time period, and they stopped the tape when TL starts to answer some of these questions. I believe the state is saving some of this for trial, or close to it.

 

[momtective]

So.....wonder how KC's feeling about now. Let's see, does she have money in her jail account so she can stuff herself with junk food to dull the anger? I'm guessing she's probably sleeping, which is good because she'll probably wake up at midnight and lay there all night long thinking about the events of the day. I hope she replays Aston's words in hear head a thousand times. No sweet dreams for KC tonight.

 

[faefrost]

I guess....but I just cant believe that any toddler or anyone else for that matter would worry about their hair being pulled if they cant BREATHE.

BREATHE TRUMPS EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING.


now if someone pedantic like my 15 year old would like to say but a newborn, blah blah, yes, true, I accept that, but we're talking a toddler. WHO COULD NOT BREATHE. I bet even if she couldnt tug off velcro, well, who knows what the human body can do when they CAN. NOT. BREATHE.

this is why I pray for chloro evidence. I cant take back the fact that caylee was murdered no matter what, but for her sake, I hope she never saw it coming and never felt a thing.

This is actually a common misconception. Human beings do not automatically or instinctively know what to do when they cannot breathe. Their instinctual reaction is blind panic. Which quickly leads to unconsciousness and death. As weird as this sounds, an adult, with no experience or training in what to do when you yourself cannot breath, will actually have dificulty coming up with the simple solution of pulling the tape off.

SCUBA diving classes spend hundreds of hours teaching people what to do and how to physically react when they cannot breathe. How to train your body to take the methodical steps to resolve the situiation, because quite frankly the brain goes haywire. the Fire Service spends thousands of hours per man teaching this same and more intensified lessons. You know that horrible airforce pool training featured in "an Officer and a Gentleman"? Same thing. They are seeking to train out and break your instincts so you will respond in an effective manner when faced with not being able to breath. When they test people for navy sub service this more then anything else is typically the highest point of failure or washout.

There is no way a 2 year old would be able to respond in a coherrant and rational way to the situation before they passed out. They would simply trash and flail. Chances are they would not be able to take the specific steps to remove the tape.

 

[scratchthatitch]

I think JB was giving very important information. He said she wasn't there! Your living in a fairy land.

If you really look at that statement, you can see he is saying she wasn't there. Perhaps showing that they are not going to go with the accident defense. I found this to be useful information.

In light of that, he was giving important information. KB continued to interupt him and the other reporters until he finally he got frustrated and left. Thanks a lot KB for ruining it for all of us. I found the other reporters to be polite and move out of the way for him. She just ruined it for everyone. I wish she would be respectful and polite so we can all hear what he has to say. This was my take on it and IMO.

When KB was aggressively interrupting JB, it was during his response to a question regarding B Scheaffer and the whole AL video hoopla. That was probably a more personal back and forth between JB and KB because of her involvement and JB wanted to really draw out his opinion on Schaeffer's ethics in front of her. Basically, she wanted to knock him off his high horse, and he wanted to embarrass her. I can't say I would really stand up for either one of them in this moment.

Otherwise, any journalist is paid to be aggressive to get their questions over their competition, and KB does get hers answered. She has found it effective in the past to incite JB with hardballs to get him to engage with her and hey, it works. 'Cuz lord knows JB can't miss an opportunity to lower himself with his smug little retorts rather than maintain some professional decorum.

Then again, I don't really think JB has any logical, intelligent or even enlightening answers regarding his clients defense to give any decent reporters. He just "blah, blah, blahs" thru the interview so he can still have his face time. MOO

 

[Bittiness39]

So.....wonder how KC's feeling about now. Let's see, does she have money in her jail account so she can stuff herself with junk food to dull the anger? I'm guessing she's probably sleeping, which is good because she'll probably wake up at midnight and lay there all night long thinking about the events of the day. I hope she replays Aston's words in hear head a thousand times. No sweet dreams for KC tonight.

ITA. I would be shocked if she coped to a plea but then again nothing would surprise me at this point, in this particular case. Perhaps the events of the day got to her. Maybe even, just speculating, one or all of her attorneys got to her with the whole...please drop this zanny the nanny nonsense line. Tell us what happened before your goose is really cooked. The DP arguments however are better suited for the Supreme Court of Florida...the rules of the state are what they are...AL is better suited to being a lobbyist against the DP rather than pin her hopes on a so obviously guilty defendent. By the time the jury gets to deliberate this case they will be so angry at KC they won't be able to see straight.

 

[Muzikman]

Haven't read thru the whole thread yet, so maybe it has already been mentioned. But just in case....

Originally Posted by The World According
Wow! What did you think?Here is Ashton again...

http://www.wesh.com/video/21931324/index.html

LISTEN CAREFULLY, turn it up, at the beginning Casey whispers to Baez "MAKE HIM STOP" and he replies "I CAN'T"

This is the BIGGEST wake-up call Casey has had yet, IMO.

Maybe, as she sits alone in her cell tonite, she will decide that it is time to stop all of this BS she is putting everyone through.

We can only hope.

 

[logicalgirl]

Could someone please tell me (or direct me to a link) what Kathy was talking about when she was shooting those questions at AL? Something about comments she had made and would it hurt Casey? I missed the entire hearing and I'm trying to catch up! Thanks in advance!

IMO, Kathy was talking about ALyons speech at the seminar where she used some disrespectful words to describe female prosecutors, jurists, and the judges. Mr. Ashton quoted several of the words she used in his address.
I think Kathy was asking did Lyons think this disrespect would discredit her sincerity during her court addresses at trial.

 

[2goldfish]

This is actually a common misconception. Human beings do not automatically or instinctively know what to do when they cannot breathe. Their instinctual reaction is blind panic. Which quickly leads to unconsciousness and death. As weird as this sounds, an adult, with no experience or training in what to do when you yourself cannot breath, will actually have dificulty coming up with the simple solution of pulling the tape off.

SCUBA diving classes spend hundreds of hours teaching people what to do and how to physically react when they cannot breathe. How to train your body to take the methodical steps to resolve the situiation, because quite frankly the brain goes haywire. the Fire Service spends thousands of hours per man teaching this same and more intensified lessons. You know that horrible airforce pool training featured in "an Officer and a Gentleman"? Same thing. They are seeking to train out and break your instincts so you will respond in an effective manner when faced with not being able to breath. When they test people for navy sub service this more then anything else is typically the highest point of failure or washout.

There is no way a 2 year old would be able to respond in a coherrant and rational way to the situation before they passed out. They would simply trash and flail. Chances are they would not be able to take the specific steps to remove the tape.

I had NO idea of this and I am fascinated - can you tell me where I can find out more, links, books? scuba I know nothing about, would it be a resource?

An adult even knowing the tape was put there REALLY wont try to take it off?

 

[RR0004]

Her anger is so disturbing and I fear and my heart aches for Caylee and what she went through in her last momments. KC was angry and she was crying because the SA got it right - that is exactly how she killed Caylee and KC is pizzed that they are telling everyone exactly what she did.

TAPE does not gently fall over the lips of a 3 year old three times - so tightly that it remianed stuck to her after weeks of decmposition. I fear Caylee faught fiercely agaisnt her mother maybe, but in the end lost.

Look at that face - that is NO MOTHER.

IMO Casey was just practicing her "how dare they?!" look.

 

[Hot Dogs]

When Ashton said that Caylee would need to be restrained and/or drugged to prevent herself from removing the tape, he insulted my intelligence.

 

[rcvela001]

After watching ....
There is a reason they fought so hard today against the death penalty…
IMO they know she is guilty and IMO they know she will be found guilty.
I think they are trying to save her life…. and that’s all they are trying to do!

JMO

Why bother saving her life? what makes her so special to these high priced lawyers? REALLY ! I want to know.....

 

[logicalgirl]

Haven't read thru the whole thread yet, so maybe it has already been mentioned. But just in case....




LISTEN CAREFULLY, turn it up, at the beginning Casey whispers to Baez "MAKE HIM STOP" and he replies "I CAN'T"

This is the BIGGEST wake-up call Casey has had yet, IMO.

Maybe, as she sits alone in her cell tonite, she will decide that it is time to stop all of this BS she is putting everyone through.

We can only hope.

Sure you can make him stop, Baez! It's called a plea bargain.

 

[Mendara]

Not that I know of, the texts on the 16th haven't been released either. These text messages, I am very much interested in hearing. LE was questioning TL on the conversations between him and Casey, during this time period, and they stopped the tape when TL starts to answer some of these questions. I believe the state is saving some of this for trial, or close to it.

OT BUT: I think these are going to be very revealing. Especially on June 16th - the blockbuster night - was he asking her to hurry and visit with him? Was she saying she couldn't because she didn't have a sitter, did he press her to come? Did she then all of sudden find a sitter late into the evening after she told LE she had already dropped Caylee off? did she mention she couldn't drive her car that night????

Oh I want to read these badly - there is some damaging stuff in there I just know it!

 

[Amster]

IMO, Kathy was talking about ALyons speech at the seminar where she used some disrespectful words to describe female prosecutors, jurists, and the judges. Mr. Ashton quoted several of the words she used in his address.
I think Kathy was asking did Lyons think this disrespect would discredit her sincerity during her court addresses at trial.

wow...thanks for the info...I wondered what was going on with those questions! How long ago was the seminar?? And, who was the defense atty. Jose referred to?