2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[Aedrys]

BJB, yes of course in my opinion. I am clearly no expert in these things, but common sense (and years of scrubbing and steam cleaning due to dogs) leads me to believe that trunk was cleaned someway, somehow.

Are we even sure the steam cleaner was tested? Last I recalled, it was not. I could have missed that part.

Indeed it would be hard to prove that trunk was cleaned (by more than paper towels) given the info we have so far. I was just throwing my random thoughts out there. I'm not really set out to prove anything *shrug*.

Just saying... I see no stain. If a body lays in the trunk 2 or so days in the humid FL summer... decomposing, there will be bloat, purge, and permeation (sorry). I see nothing consistent of that in the photos (purging of bodily and decomposition fluids)

Perhaps there are photos we're not being shown due to the graphic nature? We were definitely not shown all of the duct tape photos that would show Caylee's hair matted in it.

That's true if Caylee's body was in there on the carpet, nothing between the body and the car trunk. However, her body was put into a canvas bag before going into the trunk (later, that bag was later put into two trash bags, probably right before Casey dumped the remains). Being bagged and then thrown in the trunk means that there isn't going to be as much decomposition matter in the trunk, only what seeped through the bag into the trunk. It drives me batty that people keep forgetting this. It's also why Casey was surprised by the smell. She thought the canvas bag would keep that smell out, but it got so hot that decomp matter seeped through the bag into the car - either it was open on one end, or the fluid seepd through the canvas material into the trunk.

I know there is speculation that she was put back there before she was bagged, but if she was, there would be more decomp matter if mom and pop A didn't clean out the car trunk. If they didn't clean out the trunk, then Caylee had to be bagged while in the back of that car hence the stain being in question. If she wasn't bagged but the A's cleaned the heck out of that trunk, then again, there's not going to be as much decomp back there to make a stain. Taking into account the canvas bagging and the possible cleaning by the A's means either way, there isn't going to be as much in that trunk as there should be. Doesn't mean that there isn't a stain or that her body was never back there.

Now if the police had gotten that car with the trunk untouched and Caylee not being bagged, there'd be a heck of a stain and lot more biological material to be tested and linked to Caylee. Unfortunately, the A's got to it first, and Casey most likely bagged Caylee's remains before putting her back there.

Edit: Sorry about that, I was off a bit on the bagging. I corrected my mistakes. Next time I will research more before assuming I know something correctly.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

According to the records,, Caylee was placed inside a canvas laundry bag, then 2 garbage bags.
I think the trash bags were added later.



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[sleutherontheside]

A conversation between the defense and JS regarding the photos comes to mind here.

See link...http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Motion%20to%20Modify%20Order%20Compeling%20Access%20to%20Crime%20Scene%20Photgraphs%20for%20Defense%20Experts.pdf

Item 3 on page 1 discusses that the experts can not access the photos by secure server. That in order to manipulate the photos in various ways in order to analyze the critical photos, that they can not do that via server and that they need a hard copy of the digital images.

They note that a previous order has forbidden and duplication of the photos.....and so...I can't help but wonder if an angle they will try to use will be that the SA forwarded images and that they could not be deemed accurate.

I also wonder if they will say that the SA did not request that these photos be sent in original digital format to "their" experts.

Maybe I am off base...but something just got me thinking about them trying to discredit the "images" based upon the original format in which they were submitted.

 

[KenoshaKid]

According to the records,, Caylee was placed inside a canvas laundry bag, then 2 garbage bags.
I think the trash bags were added later.



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I always thought it was 2 trash bags and then the canvas bag on the outside.
Is there a link to the bagging information?

 

[sarah7855]

I always thought it was 2 trash bags and then the canvas bag on the outside.
Is there a link to the bagging information?

Page 3 of this report states:

On December 11, Dr. Utz and Dr. Schultz separated a light colored laundry bag from two black garbage bags with yellow pull ties. The two black bags were torn in multiple places and intermingled, and were partially within the laundry bag. The laundry bag contained a rigid metal rim, as seen on x-ray, around the opening. The black bags were positioned on top of the metal rim while a fold of the laundry bag was visible overlaying the top of the garbage bags.

I've read other accounts of the garbage bags being inside the laundry bag as well, but can't locate them at the moment.

 

[wenwe4]

I always thought it was 2 trash bags and then the canvas bag on the outside.
Is there a link to the bagging information?

TY as I was thinking the same thing. It doesn't make sense to me to put the 2 garbage bags on the outside of the laundry bag because it was the one with handles (easier carrying). Also the laundry bag was lined with a coating (iirc). The laundry bag was quite stained on the outside but I don't remember seeing any pics of the interior of the laundry bag. It makes sense to me that the stain in the trunk on the liner was not as easily seen by the naked eye. I believe Caylee's body did not spend much time in the trunk without being triple bagged and/or it was seepage from the bags. The decomp stain was 2.6 days in duration but that does not tell us if the body was in the trunk if there for 2.6 days or if the seepage was 2.6 days old. I still think the laundry bag was on the outside and the body was bagged in garbage bags initially.

 

[ynotdivein]

BBM

So true, LambChop. :boing:

What an awful experience if the Anthony's have really tried to study the car trunk stains like we have, and have had to accept the truth. No grandparent would ever, ever imagine they'd have to study pics of their daughter's car trunk looking for a stain that might be their granddaughter.

It'd be an even much more terrible experience if you then had to lie about what you know and see, and deny what horrible things were done to your grandchild by your own child. Lying to yourself like that will eat you alive, IMO.

Three months later and after GMA appearance of CA/GA (and noticeably not LA) on Caylee's anniversary, bumping CM's post for... well, for perspective.

Moment of silence anyone? *** ***

 

[LindseyLou]

TY as I was thinking the same thing. It doesn't make sense to me to put the 2 garbage bags on the outside of the laundry bag because it was the one with handles (easier carrying). Also the laundry bag was lined with a coating (iirc). The laundry bag was quite stained on the outside but I don't remember seeing any pics of the interior of the laundry bag. It makes sense to me that the stain in the trunk on the liner was not as easily seen by the naked eye. I believe Caylee's body did not spend much time in the trunk without being triple bagged and/or it was seepage from the bags. The decomp stain was 2.6 days in duration but that does not tell us if the body was in the trunk if there for 2.6 days or if the seepage was 2.6 days old. I still think the laundry bag was on the outside and the body was bagged in garbage bags initially.

So she had Caylee's body somewhere outside of the trunk when George Anthony opened it to remove the gas cans (wonder where?) and then later put Caylee's body back in the trunk and eventually layered the trash bags (probably to help eliminate the smell that was developing?) Any ideas on what she did with Caylee's body prior to putting it in the trunk? or why she borrowed the shovel?

...and then when her parents retrieved it from the tow yard they pulled out a bag with what looked like rotting pizza with maggots...did they ever locate that bag?

 

[Reagan]

Lindsey Lou, yes they retrieved the garbage bag and it had what appeared to be decomp fluid on the outside. The picture is somewhere in the beginning of this thread. The docs have not mentioned what that stuff was on the outside thus far.

Aedrys, I am of the opinion that Caylee was not bagged for 2-3 days after she was killed due to the borrowing of the shovel. I really don't see KC knocking off bamboo shoots with it, or using it to pull the ladder out of the pool, or whatever excuse KC will come up with next about why she used the shovel.

I don't think we will ever know the true details unless by some miracle and divine intervention, KC and Co. starts telling the truth, but I don't believe they're capable of that.

 

[ynotdivein]

Lindsey Lou, yes they retrieved the garbage bag and it had what appeared to be decomp fluid on the outside. The picture is somewhere in the beginning of this thread. The docs have not mentioned what that stuff was on the outside thus far.

Respectfully snipped for focus.

The original solo shot of the white garbage bag with red residue resting next to another bag in or near the dumpster seems to now be missing from earlier posts in this thread, but I found this for our reference (photo in upper right corner, original poster Eidetic):

 

[ynotdivein]

Bumping for 9/21/10 release of more photos:

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/25097605/detail.html

 

[Solace]

Hi all... The Sentinel site is still jammed up (image of hordes of WSers' computers making a "run on the bank" style scene outside the electronic gates of the OS), but before it went down, I managed to view the top & underside of the trunk liner. Wanted to throw this out there:

The top side does not appear stained to my eyes, in these pix at least, until they fluoresce it. (Nice work there, CA.) But the bottom side has that curved stain and I am so very much wanting to see that stain residue picture next to photos of the stain on the outside of the garbage bag that GA and SB retrieved from the trunk in the tow yard!!!

Of course I am travelling today for work :banghead: since I have not yet mastered the art of requesting off on doc dump days. :computer:

(My first thread too--happy Mardi Gras all! :bananapowerslide

Can you tell me where I can find the picture of the stain on the "garbage bags"? I did not know about any such stain and I did not know a stain would cling to a garbage bags - but I am apparently wrong. IN any event, can you tell me where I can find that. Thanks very much.

 

[Solace]

Bumping for 9/21/10 release of more photos:

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/25097605/detail.html

Thanks for the photos. I remember seeing the photo and e-mail from FBI agent saying he/she sees an outline. The pictures and the outlines will need to be explained as they are shown. HOWEVER, if I am looking at them correctly, the outline of a head and small arm in the middle where she would have been lying - if that is right, all I can say is whewwww. If they do this right in Court and then show these pictures at the end and correctly identify ALL parts of this baby, CA could get the death penalty. They are heart breaking if I am looking at them correctly. And that is exactly what I would leave them with before I sat down and finished my closing statement and I would blow them up so everyone can see this baby.

 

[ynotdivein]

Can you tell me where I can find the picture of the stain on the "garbage bags"? I did not know about any such stain and I did not know a stain would cling to a garbage bags - but I am apparently wrong. IN any event, can you tell me where I can find that. Thanks very much.

I should have noted where I found it last time; it's somewhere in this thread in a composite of a couple images... Off to search.... :dance:

ETA: post 129 on this thread (hooray for Eidetic!)

 

[Intermezzo]

EVIDENCE RELEASED 09/21/10:
» Investigative Photos Of Casey's Trunk

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/25097605/detail.html

 

[Tulessa]

EVIDENCE RELEASED 09/21/10:
» Investigative Photos Of Casey's Trunk

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/25097605/detail.html

OMG! I just got violently sick.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

OMG! I just got violently sick.

Wow. Unbelievable. I felt ill as well. It's never been clearer that the Anthonys are all in on this. Pizza? it is simply demonic what they have tried to do.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

....are those white things maggots? Also this is the underside of the lining yes? No wonder the car reeked. Absolutely disgusting. The body must have been well gone by the time she disposed of it. How anybody could drive around with that in their trunk is beyond me, that really is horrific.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

....are those white things maggots? Also this is the underside of the lining yes? No wonder the car reeked. Absolutely disgusting. The body must have been well gone by the time she disposed of it. How anybody could drive around with that in their trunk is beyond me, that really is horrific.

When I see those pics and think of Cindy mouthing off about pizza...well, I'm even more shocked. This is one of those cases where we knew it was bad...but my God.

 

[strawberry]

....are those white things maggots? Also this is the underside of the lining yes? No wonder the car reeked. Absolutely disgusting. The body must have been well gone by the time she disposed of it. How anybody could drive around with that in their trunk is beyond me, that really is horrific.

Not sure...at first I thought it was white stuff (someone thought maybe the grave wax). But then when I looked again I think it's stains illuminated with a blacklight. But I'm not sure.