2010.04.21 Do the police have enough evidence to rule this a homicide?

[snowshuze]

Word of the day...vascillate.

 

[raisincharlie]

Word of the day...vascillate.

Better than saying I'm just a whimp and my brain is saying LE found some of Haleigh's clothing possibly. That would definitely make them change it from missing to homicide. I am a whimp Shuze.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I think they have evidence that Haleigh was harmed and I think that evidence is the blood in the van.

I think Tommy and Misty's stories explain that blood in the van and goes on to explain that Haleigh is no longer alive.

 

[raisincharlie]

Dr. Fessel - don't you think if there was blood in that van that belonged to Haleigh, that LE would have reached the conclusion a year ago that Haleigh had been harmed ?

 

[lishac23]

Sadly and I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think LE has anything new besides hearsey. An "eyewitness" told them a story....LE went to the river to search for evidence to cooberate this story. Based on this eyewitness' information (saying she's deceased) LE strongly believes that she is, however, without a body and a lack of evidence, its all circumstantial.

 

[tlcya]

I hope and pray LE has something, but I fear they may not.

 

[lonetraveler]

I, like many people, have assumed alot about what LE must know. Assuming that they surely know way much more than we do. Giving LE the benefit of the doubt and hoping that the reason I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about this case is due to my sketicism and not to maybe LE not having a clue about what happened to Haleigh. I have listened and watched the drama unfold on the phone videos. I have listened to Tommy refuse to just finger Joe just because "they" want me too. Saying that he just couldn't do that to someone who was innocent of anything having to do with Haleigh. Said that he would finger him in a second if he was guilty but just couldn't throw Joe under the bus just because someone wanted him too. Then all of a sudden, Tommy jumps on the bus with Misty's infamous story of Joe taking Haleigh. Although according to "sources", Misty's story about Joe taking Haleigh showed as deception on the LDT. So, is LE picking and choosing what lie they are going to use to "solve" this crime? All along I have felt and still feel that Misty is protecting Ron. That she has been given the story to tell and, by God, you've got to give her credit earend for sticking to the "Joe did it" story since the first. I do believe that Tommy was pulled into the coverup portion and cleanup duties involved in a crime such as this one. I believe that the van was used that night. Questions have not been answered as to who drove the van from Timmy and Chelsea's home that night. I do believe that it was decided early on that Joe was the most expendable family member to throw under the bus, so Chelsea, Misty, Teresa, Ron and eventually Tommy jumped on the bus. Back to what I feel about this case? Unfortunately, my assumptions that LE had way more information has dwindled down to my suspicions I've had all along that LE did not know any more than we do and have been playing games trying to get any information that they can out of this cretin bunch. Hey, Ron! You're still safe.

 

[pinkfly]

They believe that she is dead and they believe that she did not die of natural causes. Therefore they believe that it is a homicide.

I sure hope they have some evidence because right now it looks pretty hard to prosecute from here.

 

[oh_gal]

I think they have evidence that Haleigh was harmed and I think that evidence is the blood in the van.

I think Tommy and Misty's stories explain that blood in the van and goes on to explain that Haleigh is no longer alive.

DrFessel....that was deer blood.

 

[raisincharlie]

Here is an interesting time line - you decide, did Tommy pass or fail his LDT ?

JAMES S. WERTER, LLC
ATTORNEY AT LAW

HALEIGH CUMMINGS MISSING CHILD CASE

APRIL 16, 2010

On March 26, 2010, I informed Nancy Grace that Hank T. Croslin, Jr. (Tommy), wanted and will take a polygraph exam to clear the air as to the events of the evening of February 9-10, 2009, when Haleigh disappeared.

On Thursday, April 8, 2010, Tommy did take a polygraph given by technician, Ron Grenier. On Saturday, April10, 2010, this attorney met with his client to discuss the results of the polygraph.

On Sunday night, April 11, 2010, this attorney received a telephone call from Lindsey Croslin (Wife) that Tommy requested that we meet with Steven K. Brown, the private investigator involved for the past 10-11 months.

On Monday morning, 9:30 AM, April 12, 2010, Steven K. Brown, this attorney and Tommy met at the St. Johns County Jail to discuss the polygraph and February 9, 2009.

Based on discussions that morning, this attorney made contact with FDLE, the State Attorney’s Office and Scott Bolin, Special Agent, FBI, and arranged an interview with Tommy at the State Attorney’s Office, Homicide Investigations Unit, St. Augustine, Florida, at approximately 5:00 PM.

As a result of the 2 plus hours interview with Jason Jolicoeiur, Special Agent, FDLE, Detective Peggy Cone, Putnam Co. Sheriff’s Office, under the guidance of this attorney and Steven K. Brown, Tommy took the group to the Shell Harbour Road boat ramp, St Johns River, Putnam County, Florida.

The commencement of the river search for Haleigh was at 10:00 AM, Tuesday, April 13, 2010.


http://www.artharris.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/James-Werter-Press-Release.pdf

 

[Emma Peel]

Here is an interesting time line - you decide, did Tommy pass or fail his LDT ?

I'll take a stab at this:


Tommy failed his LDT.
Lindsy was quite displeased with him and gave him a time out with a tutor.
Lindsy then requested that her Tommy have a re-test, under special accomodations.
Tommy did better on that test and earned a field trip.


(if this was a yes/no question RaisinCharlie, I flunked it, huh?)

 

[raisincharlie]

I'll take a stab at this:


Tommy failed his LDT.
Lindsy was quite displeased with him and gave him a time out with a tutor.
Lindsy then requested that her Tommy have a re-test, under special accomodations.
Tommy did better on that test and earned a field trip.


(if this was a yes/no question RaisinCharlie, I flunked it, huh?)

If Tommy failed do you think LE would have spent the ton of money to search the St. John's River at Shell Harbour ? Don't forget - right in the middle of it LE said this is now a homicide investigation. Perhaps he failed it - reconsidered and came clean on Monday ?

I highlighted Sunday because this is the day Tommy and Misty both called GMa Hollars.

 

[Boots-OK]

Thanks, Charlie. I had never read that document before. Interesting.

Hopefully, Tommy provided some new and insightful information that strengthens LE's case. Since LE went right to Jo and interviewed him again, it seems certain TC's info implicates Jo in some way or another. So - I can only trust that there is more evidence than what we have been made aware of. MOO

 

[raisincharlie]

Thanks, Charlie. I had never read that document before. Interesting.

Hopefully, Tommy provided some new and insightful information that strengthens LE's case. Since LE went right to Jo and interviewed him again, it seems certain TC's info implicates Jo in some way or another. So - I can only trust that there is more evidence than what we have been made aware of. MOO

You are welcome.

I should have added, that LE also sat down with the families and advised them of the search and the likelyhood that Haleigh was deceased. Someone made LE believe something.

 

[lishac23]

If Tommy failed do you think LE would have spent the ton of money to search the St. John's River at Shell Harbour ? Don't forget - right in the middle of it LE said this is now a homicide investigation. Perhaps he failed it - reconsidered and came clean on Monday ?

I highlighted Sunday because this is the day Tommy and Misty both called GMa Hollars.

According to GM Hollars Tommy admitted to her that he failed. And then proceeded to say Joe did it.

Whats confusing is why would he ask to take one if he knew he was going to fail? :waitasec:

 

[tragco]

Great thread.

IMO, no. They have statements made by inmates wanting out of prison desperately, who would say and do anything to get out.

I am very hopeful that LE has something more; but if they do, where is the arrest? They have stated they found no human remains at the most recent search site.

They had no evidence to arrest anyone for all this time and are stating they have found nothing of Haleigh at the most recent search. What new evidence, then, do they have to prove a homicide?

2 Cinder blocks, but no remains? How is that going to point to a homicide? IF they can tie the blocks to the MH, that would indicate a homicide but my understanding is they have not gotten any results back.

 

[raisincharlie]

According to GM Hollars Tommy admitted to her that he failed. And then proceeded to say Joe did it.

Whats confusing is why would he ask to take one if he knew he was going to fail? :waitasec:

Why did Misty take 4 of them - two of which we knew she failed very badly ? Same reason I suspect, they have both lied for so long and are so good at it they probably think they could lie and continue to get away with it is my best guess because there sure as heck isn't any other explanation for it.

 

[Emma Peel]

If Tommy failed do you think LE would have spent the ton of money to search the St. John's River at Shell Harbour ? Don't forget - right in the middle of it LE said this is now a homicide investigation. Perhaps he failed it - reconsidered and came clean on Monday ?

I highlighted Sunday because this is the day Tommy and Misty both called GMa Hollars.

Yes RaisinCharlie, that is what I think...

Question: what about the part where this lawyer "no longer represented him in the Haleigh case but continued to represent him in the drug case" ... that's another reason I think he failed the LDT. And I think maybe Lindsy had been talking to Brown as PI. And let Tommy have it when he failed. "I will not lie for you Tommy"..."Take the test Tommy". (paraphrasing Lindsy quotes from jailhouse convos)

I was thinking LE would have performed the search upon having Tommy's 2nd meeting (not the LDT) with the PI & his lawyer at Lindsy' insistence. And now, we know, for some reason, a call was placed to Granny Hollar about the same time Lindsy was beating on Tommy. That's all an interesting series of Tommy's confidants lined up in a confession timeline, JHMO. But, I think it happened after he flunked the LDT, and Lindsy raised holy hockeysticks and changed her last name on her faceboook. ahem.

What do you think?

 

[raisincharlie]

Yes RaisinCharlie, that is what I think...

Question: what about the part where this lawyer "no longer represented him in the Haleigh case but continued to represent him in the drug case" ... that's another reason I think he failed the LDT. And I think maybe Lindsy had been talking to Brown as PI. And let Tommy have it when he failed. "I will not lie for you Tommy"..."Take the test Tommy". (paraphrasing Lindsy quotes from jailhouse convos)

I was thinking LE would have performed the search upon having Tommy's 2nd meeting (not the LDT) with the PI & his lawyer at Lindsy' insistence. And now, we know, for some reason, a call was placed to Granny Hollar about the same time Lindsy was beating on Tommy. That's all an interesting series of Tommy's confidants lined up in a confession timeline, JHMO. But, I think it happened after he flunked the LDT, and Lindsy raised holy hockeysticks and changed her last name on her faceboook. ahem.

What do you think?

That is also what I think - he came clean or as clean as he was willing to become after he failed the test. I think the meeting with the SA choked it right out of him. Tommy and Joe would be eligible for the DP - Misty would not be...someone got through to Tommy, the dire straight he was in so he gave up a location but not necessarily who did what except he didn't kill Haleigh, so he would claim.

 

[Emma Peel]

This makes me think that there was all this movement on this case because of Lindsy, Steve Brown, Tommy, and Granny Hollars. How does that all connect?

Is it possible that Steve Brown (Crystal's PI) got to Lindsy, Lindsy provided some missing links, and then they figured this thing out? Lindsy confronted Tommy after the failed LDT, and then Tommy cracked.

Why do you think, of all the people on his list, Tommy called his Granny Hollar to tell her what he told her? Was she the only one with minutes that day? Did he call everyone or just Granny Hollar? Why did Granny Hollar hear from both Tommy & Misty within 15 minutes of eachother?

:waitasec:

Maybe Lindsy is the real tipster. Whoa!