2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[Breathe]

Wow...anyone having trouble with WS this afternoon/evening?

Okay...sorting out the logistics problem, almost done:

Okay... Having just "fastidiously" moved a house of 1500 sq. ft in 2 weeks (going through everything with incredible detail, packing etc.) -- I nearly have their logistics problem handled! BTW, if the house "burned down" there would be no logistical problem...so I always kinda use a "house on fire" scenario on what is important to take or get rid of...

Ground rules...

A. If something is missed in the present decision, i.e. if Terri leaves a personal belonging accidentally, Kaine packs it for her after the fact and it is delivered to her attorney's office for her to pick up.

B. Similarly, if Terri packs something personal of Kaine's, she delivers it to his attorney's office.

C. Terri leaves the house for 6 hours... Kaine goes through the house looking for his "personal" belongings (old photos, high school or school junk, things from when he was a kid, Kyron's things, etc.) from the rooms that Terri will take (Master, eldest son's room, living room, kitchen, possible office) -- he places these things in boxes in Kyron's and/or K's room temporarily and the door is shut -- Terri does not need to bother with these rooms or those belongings in her move.

The method:
1. Close Kyron's room door -- Terri does not enter that bedroom
2. Close the baby's room door -- Terri doesn't have to enter that room either
3. Terri empties the bathroom into boxes, takes it all
4. If Terri wants linen closet things, she empties them into boxes
5. If Terri wants all curtains etc. she or packers take them down and pack them
6. Terri empties her eldest's room -- leaving only those things which might be "Kaine's, Kyron's or K's" belongings if any of them have been stored/left in there.

Now the few remaining problems...
Living room, dining room, kitchen, garage -- maybe utility room or storage shed

PS. Kaine and Terri, this is a free service from someone with immense organizational skills!

You make me smile! Looks like everyone needs to go to the Piggly Wiggly and get some boxes (just not at the same time). You make it all sound so easy. Have I got a project for you....

 

[xin]

Actually the guy got that wrong (imagine that!). He was wearing a gray t shirt.

It's just amazing isn't it? The easiest things: WRONG.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I should have not said Kaine might not be really afraid as I am sure she is under continual surveillence. However I know that if someone wants to violate an RO it is all to easy and can be over for the person wanting protection before the violator makes it to jail. In reality they are a formality that doesn't offer a lot of protection for the ones who really do need them. If Terri wanted Kaine dead, then he would have been with or without the address. She would have found him somehow. They all seem to.

What the domestic violence project in my old town told victims of violence is that research seems to indicate that ROs are effective with certain types of abusers but act as a goad to other types.

The type of abuser that a RO works best on is usually someone who has a professional position, so that they have a strong motivation to keep the abuse secret; the abuser who is always careful either not to leave marks or to leave marks in nonpublic places; the abuser who straightens up and flies right the instant they think the law might be watching them.

The type of abuser that a RO tends to act as a goad on is the abuser who was uninhibited about beating the victim in front of witnesses; who was obsessively jealous and a rage-oholic type; who had violent paranoid ideation; who bragged to others about beating the victim; who had little concern about losing a job or status if they were revealed to be abusive.

The local prosecutor's office had an ombudsman who would sit down with victims who were unsure and help them build a profile of the abuser in order to make the best educated guess they could.

 

[DairyGirl]

Rights aren't worth anything if they only protect people who are generally liked. It's easy to advocate, for instance, protecting Mrs Smith's right of free speech when the worst thing Mrs Smith has ever said of anyone or anything is "oh dear." It's much more difficult to advocate protecting the free speech of the KKK or the Westboro Baptist Church. In order to have a right to free speech, it is the difficult cases that make that right meaningful for everyone.

It is clear that it is legal to exert some emotional or mental pressure on people in the course of investigations. However, it is also clear that such pressure can be escalated to the point where there is a high risk of eliciting a false confession, so that the line between okay and too much should fall short of that point.

Where that line is drawn is not entirely clear and may well vary from case to case.



<<LOL>> Yeah!

I vaguely remember some of the rules about when veils were to be worn with hats and what sorts of veils were appropriate to what occasions.

In many ways those were much narrower times and I love the greater perceived freedom of the present... but the minutiae of the past was beautiful in it's way. There was pageantry, pomp and circumstance that the majority understood and appreciated.



Thank you. I assure you, I do not feel picked on in the least by such a courteous opponent.

I just wanted to say that in this case there is very little chance of a false confession if it's leads to Kyron. Otherwise I do agree with you.

 

[DairyGirl]

Okay...finalizing the logistics problem...

A. This isn't a divorce settlement, it is merely moving one person out and another in. The moves and taking of items can be categorized, listed, later and sorted out by what was owned by Kaine prior to the marriage, what is community property and what Terri took when she moved OR would like after the fact in some "compromise" to get this move happening in 24 hours!

B. Cameras are very nice... We know Terri has some type of camera. I'm sure Kaine could borrow one. Both/either can go through the house in short order and photograph things. All "loose ends" can be hammered out later.

SO...the living room -- Tell her what she can take, Kaine (if you are reading) tell her to take it all if you are happy with that. Just get this handled honey! New living room furniture isn't hard to get and you have a good income and a future, plus you get to snuggle that baby girl. Some things are just more important than possessions -- and you know it more than anyone!

The dining room -- Again Kaine, don't give too much thought about anything you know you can live without...give it all to her, tally it against anything in the settlement later.

The kitchen -- these can be "filled" in a few minutes with a few loving "housewife" or mom friends. If she wants it all, take snaps of what she is getting and tally it later (keep receipts on what it costs you to replace what is there). PULL any of your personal stuff before she goes through it!

GARAGE! That can be sorted later!

DONE! DING DING DING! This can be handled in 24 hours!

I appreciate all the work you have put into this but something tells me that TH's future living arrangements will already be furnished.

 

[DairyGirl]

In all seriousness I am wondering why TH's attorney has not suggested to her that a trip to a rehab or inpatient facility might help her.

 

[Calliope]

In all seriousness I am wondering why TH's attorney has not suggested to her that a trip to a rehab or inpatient facility might help her.

He may well have set up a psych eval for her.

 

[Donjeta]

The sartorial discussion makes me a bit worried that the justice system may sometimes decide on a case based on not the merits of the arguments and the contra-arguments about the evidence but on the aesthetic value of each party dressing up.

 

[xin]

The sartorial discussion makes me a bit worried that the justice system may sometimes decide on a case based on not the merits of the arguments and the contra-arguments about the evidence but on the aesthetic value of each party dressing up.

Lady Justice is blind.

 

[Wrinkles]

You make me smile! Looks like everyone needs to go to the Piggly Wiggly and get some boxes (just not at the same time). You make it all sound so easy. Have I got a project for you....

Hello Dear One!

I'm an old girl who has moved many times! Aside from that... I could even fix the "hoarder" problem we are seeing on these TV shows -- I would have a show called "House on Fire -- the Hoarding Fix!" I'd give hoarders 1 hour with as many boxes and bags as they want and say -- go get anything you want, you have an hour, after that, everything goes! Okay... Maybe I would give them 3 hours! Okay...maybe 1 hour for each room BUT NO MORE! AND they would have to be the one to pack and carry the junk out! IF our house burns to the ground, or gets taken away by earthquake, tornado or hurricane etc. -- we rebuild, we must...we have no choice (and it can be fun actually -- I've had to do that along the way for varying reasons!) I don't relish the thought of going through that for myself or anyone, but "naked came we into this world...and..." And...do hoarders really think their kids want to fish through their junk when they die? Okay...back on topic!

I'm feeling like this logistic thing is pure, unadulterated nonsense. There are few logistics to consider that I (or any other organizer) could not rationally sort out within less than an hour... Kaine had to leave suddenly from that house to protect his own life. EVEN IF Terri had to leave within a few hours, so that Kaine could move back in for the security of their mutual child, my feelings are that all other "material" matters could be sorted out later.

Nonsense! At the very least, she can move out with the clothes on her back (more or less as Kaine had to do with a baby), he moves in. OTHERWISE, there is a quick solution to giving her a number of possessions, and she can sort out "her take" later on.

Now about that project of yours ...

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't understand why the media commented on what he was wearing? I think that is pretty typical attire for men in Oregon. I must say I was surprised when I moved up here at the number of men who wear jeans to formal weddings even!


How many people feel that what Kaine was wearing has an impact on his involvement in this case?

It is one of the things that makes me wonder if his attorney, Ms Rackner, is able to exercise sufficient control of her client.

Insofar as that may or may not affect the investigation into Kyron's disappearance, then the question of attorney control of client may have an impact on the case.

 

[xin]

It is one of the things that makes me wonder if his attorney, Ms Rackner, is able to exercise sufficient control of her client.

Insofar as that may or may not affect the investigation into Kyron's disappearance, then the question of attorney control of client may have an impact on the case.

On the other hand, the relaxed attire does not scream *defendant*. He could however ratchet it up to a shirt with a collar.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't understand why the media commented on what he was wearing? I think that is pretty typical attire for men in Oregon. I must say I was surprised when I moved up here at the number of men who wear jeans to formal weddings even!

How many people feel that what Kaine was wearing has an impact on his involvement in this case?

I thought of something else I wanted to say. Clearly, brevity is not the soul of my wit.

I wonder if there is any correlation between how people view courts philosophically and their opinions about proper attire in court?

I know I view the courts with reverence. To me, a court is the embodiment of the expressed principles and rules by which a large group of people have agreed to abide by. It is the embodiment of a decision to live by a rule of law. It is the difference between civilisation and barbarianism.

Approaching the court to invoke one's rights and privileges under the law should be done seriously. Things like nuisance suits, SLAPPs and frivolous suits sadden me because they denote a loss of respect for the tremendous importance of principles that a court embodies.

There should be a solemnity to it. A certain sense of ceremony that conveys a willingness to abide by the judge's decision, agree with it or disagree with it.

Of course there are occasions where one is forced to show up wearing just any old thing (or a blanket) and this may well have been one of them.

 

[Wrinkles]

I appreciate all the work you have put into this but something tells me that TH's future living arrangements will already be furnished.

Hello DairyGirl (by the way, have I ever told you I like your milk maid frock?),

I think you might be correct. Even so...there has to be this kinda "air of the norm" -- poor lil pouty faced girl, had nothing to do with the problem at hand, yet she has been tossed out... There must be an equitable agreement at this point in time and in the future, unless and, probably even if, TH is eventually arrested and/or convicted/incarcerated of anything.

Gosh...thinking of your milk maid frock made me think of having a step mother prancing around in a bikini, "pumping" to show daddy and everyone else in the household their HULK WOMAN bod.

 

[Susan10]

Horman was dressed in a grey sweatshirt and tan shorts and sneakers. He has a freshly shaved head.

Odd thing to report about.....

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kaine_horman_urges_judge_to_fo.html

Here's another straight-on shot of KH's new appearance. He looks awfully somber and serious. Hope it wasn't on here before already and I missed it.

Her lawyer is calling what's going on a "witch hunt." I wondered when he was going to start making statements to the press.

http://best.king5.com/denny-pet-world/biz/122957

 

[GrainneDhu]

FYI media can hang out for as long as somebody pays them. They were out for months at Scott Peterson's, Drew P and Casey's, until the arrests, for example, they hung out majorly related to OJ. I think this could be as big a case, and we know that a good picture of TH's arrest is big time.

REally, and anybody who wants to can find anybody's address given half a brain as we know so well from following high profile crime.

And, yup, skeeters, and yup pool coverage, but still amateurs because they might have a shot at a $ale. I'm a paparazzi-wannabe. Just too lazy.

BBM

I think, though, that in all of those cases, the house was clearly visible from public property. They were fairly typical suburban properties (ok, OJ's was expensive but you could still see the doors from the road).

In the case of the Horman house, unless I'm really mistaken, the house is not visible from the public road. I looked at the aerial shot and used a ruler to figure out possible sight lines, so I could easily be wrong.

The way it looked on the aerial photo, the driveway is long and has a bend to it, such that even standing square in front of the gate, all that would be visible would be trees.

The media could get pix of any vehicles arriving at or leaving the property but those are not nearly as interesting as shots that feature actual human beings in them. The people paying the bills are likely to want more than day after day of tree portraits.

Even shots of people driving in or out won't be all that newsworthy before long. How many shots of people wearing sunglasses behind a wheel will sell more advertising?

I think that if I am right about the way the house is situated, baby K can lead a pretty normal toddler life style there. She can go outside to play without seeing or being seen by the law abiding media (and I'm betting LE would love to arrest trespassers). And there's no chance that the law abiding media can get any shots through the windows, so they won't have to live with the curtains constantly closed.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't understand the delay.

If she's getting threats I'd think she'd have wanted to be out of the house ages ago, because every nutcase knows where she lives now.

 

[surrogatemom]

I don't understand the delay.

If she's getting threats I'd think she'd have wanted to be out of the house ages ago, because every nutcase knows where she lives now.

I'm guessing that even with everyone knowing where she lives, she has LE watching her home (she may not realize to what extent but...). Granted, they will follow her, but she knows the ins and outs of the home and around it. I am sure she feels safer there than most anywhere else. Even when she moves out, I am sure her location will be discovered by locals, MSM, etc. rather quickly. :/

That said, I am a bit disgusted at people taking issue with KH's attire. I found nothing wrong with it. But as I believe it was DairyGirl? that said, this is Portland and Portland is very laid back. If anything, as someone else said, at least he didn't wear his Kyron shirt, which would have been going over the line, I THINK. (Granted, I would have giggled had he worn it.. not that any of this is a laughing matter though)

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm feeling like this logistic thing is pure, unadulterated nonsense. There are few logistics to consider that I (or any other organizer) could not rationally sort out within less than an hour... Kaine had to leave suddenly from that house to protect his own life. EVEN IF Terri had to leave within a few hours, so that Kaine could move back in for the security of their mutual child, my feelings are that all other "material" matters could be sorted out later.

SBM

Finding a landlord willing to rent to a tenant whose possible length of tenancy may range from, say, 24 hours to a year?

If her parents aren't willing or able to take her in, she does have to live somewhere. At least temporarily.

 

[nurseratchett]

I was so happy the other day to finally hear a family member make a plea for Kyron's sake... I hope that we hear more of them.. to repeat:
PLEASE LET KYRON GO..!! LET HIM OFF AT A PAY PHONE AND TELL HIM TO CALL 911 AND TO TELL THEM WHO YOU ARE....!!!
RAYING:

LET'S NOT LOSE SITE OF WHY WE ARE HERE................

Not meant to be confrontational, I keep seeing similar posts about this, but IMO, wasn't this done in the the first presser where Tony stated:

.........Kyron, we miss you, we love you, and we need you home right now and we're doing everything we can to make sure you can get back to us as soon as possible"................

If that would not be considered a statement making a plea for Kyrons sake, I guess I am very confused.....:waitasec: