2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[gitana1]

No criminal attorney in his/her right mind would allow a client to testify under oath at a civil proceeding directly related to possible future criminal charges for that client. If that means the loss of the client's child and/or home, so be it. Her attorney cannot let her answer questions about two serious situations she may be charged with later - the hit man, and Kyron's disappearance. Those are exactly the same issues at hand in the civil matter and her attorney can't let her answer that stuff now.

She's between a rock and hard place. She knows it, Kaine knows it, and the lawyers know it. She may be absolutely devastated to be out of contact with her daughter for all we know, but her hands are tied until this all blows over. Only then, if she is not charged or is exonerated, can she go fight for custody.

You are 100% right. But if she's innocent, one would think she'd tell her attorney to go to he!!. I'd die before giving up custody or even the right to see my infant. Even if I thought it was for a brief time, unless her life was in danger if she saw me. And, like I have said, one cannot simply march back into court and demand visitation/custodial rights when it is suddenly convenient for the person. She set up a status quo that will hinder her ability to get custody at a later date. IMO.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Sure but if you were accused of something that you didn't do and you could prove it, wouldn't you want to do it and get it over with instead of waiting under a cloud of suspicion because the burden of proof is on the state?

That assumes that if she is factually innocent, she has a story that can be corroborated.

Those are two different issues. Someone really can be innocent of all wrongdoing without being able to prove it.

For an unrelated example, there were media reports about unintended acceleration in certain Toyota Camry models for quite a while. Some of those reports were from accidents caused by unintended acceleration. Toyota kept stalling, kept claiming that there was no evidence that there was a problem, that the cars involved had been inspected and no evidence found, etc.

Then all of a sudden, oopsie, it turns out that there was this one little problem Toyota engineers had noticed with the design of the accelerator pedal and some third party floor mats.

Turns out that at least some of those previously affected drivers weren't so crazy after all. There really was a problem, they just couldn't prove it.

I admit that this seems like a farfetched possibility in this case. But until there is more evidence available, it remains a possibility.

 

[seeking truth]

Maybe she is giving up right for NOW until she can get a better game play to fight for rights. If she is innocent I sure hope this is the case. IMO

BUT, if this has been reported correctly (I haven't read documents from today, if they are even available) WHY, IF SHE IS INNOCENT, wouldn't her very first course of action have already been to fight desperately to see her daughter, to contest the custody order within the Restraining Order?

What do you mean by Terri "get[ting] a better game play to fight[ing]for rights"?

Thanks in advance if you want to explain, because I don't understand what is meant by this.

Just some questions and opinion.

 

[CharlestonGal]

You are 100% right. But if she's innocent, one would thing she'd tell her attorney to go to he!!. I'd die before giving up custody or even the right to see my infant. Even if I thought it was for a brief time, unless her life was in danger if she saw me. And, like I have said, one cannot simply march back into court and demand visitation/custodial rights when it is suddenly convenient for the person. She set up a status quo that will hinder her ability to get custody at a later date. IMO.

Yes, if she were innocent she could absolutely tell her attorney to go h*ll. I would. There is no way I personally would stand by while someone attempted to keep me from my daughter. That would be a fight to the finish. Period. I would be pushing back so hard against KH and the court it would make their heads spin and make them wish they'd never laid eyes on me.

If, however, I were guilty of murder for hire and the murder of a 7 year old child, I'd probably realize that the above tactics would likely land me in prison for life where I wouldn't see my daughter anyway, so I doubt I'd go there. Being free and away from my daughter is better than being in prison and away from my daughter, ya know?

 

[gitana1]

ITA, 6 weeks, and no Kyron, Im sure by now they have gone over all phone, email ETC< IMO, and I hate saying this, Kyron is gone and is not comming back, alive that is, she had hidden him somewhere, not alive mind you and thats what she was up to that morning, she did to Kyron what she could not get someone to do to Kaine, JMO, God bless Kyron and his faimly

Oh, I hate reading that as much as you hate typing it. I don't want to believe it even though it is probably true. I'm hoping for a miracle. They still do happen from time to time!!

 

[Donjeta]

Yes, I agree. It just started as speculation that she'd have no trouble getting a lawyer to represent her if she could prove she wasn't responsible for Kyron disappearing, and a statement that she should prove it to LE in that case.

Maybe she can prove she's innocent but frankly, I doubt it because what she's going through now can't be fun and whatever she may not have wanted to disclose in order to prove it can hardly be worse than losing everything.

Edit: this was meant for GrainneDhu post 519 above.

 

[seeking truth]

How does one go about proving their innocence? TIA

1. Cooperate with Investigators.

2. Tell the truth.

 

[gitana1]

I was thinking about this: what employer would hire her right now?

I don't think Mickey D's would hire her. It wouldn't take long for someone to recognise her and then the place would be packed with media trying to get a story and probably not buying a lot of product. The local, regular customers would get in the habit of going elsewhere and, well, I don't think they'd take the chance.

Same with any job where she would be visible to the general public.

I'm not sure what her job qualifications are other than teaching but with all this going on, do you really think any school would offer her a job?

Plus, with the economy the way it is right now, it's not like employers are suffering from such a dearth of applicants that they can't pick and choose. There are plenty of people out there who are seeking jobs who are not the focus of so much as an investigation into their parking habits.

You know, you're right. There were 200 applicants for some low wage coffeshop job recently in the bay area of California. If I was the boss I'd rather pick someone without baggage.

 

[AbbieNormal]

There's been movement in missing spouse cases, ever since the Nancy Cooper case, whereby the parents of the missing spouse apply for custody of the minor children. The cases that I've observed where this was accomplished, the parents getting custody, the living spouse was eventually arrested for the disappearance.

During the NC case, the husband began responding via affidavits, but it only made him look guiltier than he already did. Subsequent cases, the spouse refused to respond and custody was granted by default. But it was the failure to defend themselves that, to me, is important.

This is the first case I"ve observed where it was suspected one of the parents contributed to the child's disappearance and custody was taken away from the other. LOL, ok, this is the first case I've observed where the step parent was cheating, hiring hitman, sexting with someone other than her husband, ...............

There's a missing child here. IF she would rather leave her child, her home, her husband, OTHER than speaking to LE, I just officially fell off the fence.

I'm sorry. I know she has a right to remain silent. But this goes beyond that issue. There's a missing child here. Where is he?

NOTHING pertaining to TH, IMHO, is as important as finding this child. ANYTHING that she can do to help facilitate recovery of this child, should be the top priority. I don't care what the heck she was doing that morning, UNLESS it was something to do with Kyron. Give LE what they need, PROVE you weren't harming this child.

OMG, forget the cheating, sexting, hiring or not a hitman, forget all of your selfish reasons. Please, please, WHERE IS KYRON?!

How cruel can a person be? Stop holding the hearts and minds of these parents and this community's and tell EVERYTHING you know. NO HOLDS BARRED!

This is what happens when you hit a brick wall with these cases. It doesn't matter if it's a spouse or a child, when there's one person holding up finding the missing, it's beyond frustrating. I just can't even imagine, what these parents are dealing with mentally. Cannot even imagine.

JMHO
fran

BBM, the power that this creature now holds- the hearts and minds of so many people, because (IMO) she and she alone knows the location of Kyron. After she tells, her power disappears and its off to jail she goes. She will hold onto this power for as long as she can, IMO. She could care less about who she is hurting in all of this. She has no feelings for anyone other than herself, and that extends to her own biological child(ren) as she is NOT fighting for parental rights for her baby. Its all about her her her at this point. We shouldn't be shocked by anything she does next. Shes damaged mentally and not only needs to be arrested she needs some serious therapy.
As long as she is free, who knows who else is in imminent danger from her twisted thinking and actions?
JMO

abbie

OhO

 

[Adalena935]

Is she agreeing to give up her RIGHTS or just custody. If she is giving up her rights she will no longer have the right to see her baby or legally be baby K's mother. Why would she agree to such a thing?

Good question. The story at the OP's link says she agreed to give up rights to custody.

 

[PoppyH]

Oh, I hate reading that as much as you hate typing it. I don't want to believe it even though it is probably true. I'm hoping for a miracle. They still do happen from time to time!!

They do and I pray Im wrong, but in reality, who is gonna hold onto a child for this long for someone who is not even the Bio mom?? and there is no trace that this is what she did?? She has to be one sly lady to pull it off and now jigs up, she has gone from 50 to zero in no time flat, if Kyron is out there she should give him up, what makes her think she could have gotten away with it?? Where as she just may get away with murder if there is no proof... Where is Kyron?? He has to be close!! Look how close Caylee was JMO

 

[Donjeta]

I think I understand the rationale for not contesting the custody case now. You might want to avoid answering questions that might come up in a criminal trial later to avoid incriminating yourself and to avoid being stuck with a story. You can't change it later and not have it bite you in the backside. But being locked in with a story is mainly a problem if you're telling lies because you may come up with a better lie. If you're telling the truth your story should stay more or less the same anyway. So if you can't tell the truth in a civil case what are the chances of you telling the truth in a criminal case and how does that reflect on your possible innocence or guilt?

 

[CharlestonGal]

They do and I pray Im wrong, but in reality, who is gonna hold onto a child for this long for someone who is not even the Bio mom?? and there is no trace that this is what she did?? She has to be one sly lady to pull it off and now jigs up, she has gone from 50 to zero in no time flat, if Kyron is out there she should give him up, what makes her think she could have gotten away with it?? Where as she just may get away with murder if there is no proof... Where is Kyron?? He has to be close!! Look how close Caylee was JMO

I agree with you that no one in their right mind (no matter how good a "friend") would hide this child for TH. The only remote possibility is a pedophile with a preference for 7 year old boys. And if she gave him to someone like *that*, well...that is a huge crime, too. It's called human trafficking.

I mean seriously, where else would Kyron be if he were still alive? No friend of TH's or anyone remotely in their right mind would be hiding him for her.

 

[gitana1]

Isn't there such a thing as giving up custody 'temporarily'? For now, Terri having baby K doesn't seem to be in the best interest of either. Maybe Terri is ill and feels she won't be able to give much even during a short visit. I don't know the reason, what I do think is if Terri fought for custody without a way to support her daughter and without a roof to cover their heads, people would be saying how selfish she is. Desiree gave up custody of Kyron and she isn't billed as being a horrific mother, why not the same for Terri? Sometimes that can be for the best interest of the child. moo

Yes, there sure are but it appears that the stipulated orders were in connection with a permanent RO request. So, unless they say, "Yes, but only for 30 days", this is a permanent order and cannot be changed easily at all. The status quo is now that the baby is being cared for primarily by daddy. The baby is not even seeing her mother. The longer this goes on, the harder it will be for her to successfully argue that custody should be reversed and given to her.
That is likely what happened to Desiree. She was to ill to have primary custody but when she was better, the status quo was created that would make a switch very hard to get.
So, what is the difference between TH and Desiree? Desiree was really sick. Desiree did not relinquish custody rights. She saw her kid every other weekend, holidays, blocks of time in the summer, etc. she called her kid, came to extracurriculars from time to time. TH has zero (0) contact with her little baby. Also, Desiree did not give up custody in an effort to avoid answering questions about the disappearance of her son. That's why no one is criticizing Desiree much.
If TH fought for custody and won, she would be paid child support and if she fought the RO, she would likely be entitled to spousal support as well, if she won. She would also likely be awarded joint monies, assets. So, she would have the means to provide for her kid. So that is not an excuse.
If TH went into court and said, "I'm an innocent of these DV charges. I was a stay at home mom of my little baby and she needs her mother!", many of us would rally behind her. It is rare to get a court order denying custody of an infant to the mother. There needs to be a real good reason. Like mommy could not be bothered to fight.

 

[AbbieNormal]

People keep referring to this child as "an infant". Its worse than that. This child is 19-20 months old, NOT an infant, this is a toddler, who loves and misses her mother no matter how evil her mother might be. If it was an inant, it actually wouldn't be as bad because although an infant might "love" its mother, but its immediate needs can be met by anyone. A toddler feels the loss of a parent, and that's what, in my mind, makes her worse than your average"bad mother" or criminal mother. I can't imagine abandoning my toddler child or just poo-pooing parental rights so I could save my own butt. This should solidify the fact that she's guilty of Kyrons disappearance more than anything else. She would rather give up her own child than answer questions about where Kyron is. Screams guilty to me.

jmo

abbie

 

[Donjeta]

Isn't there such a thing as giving up custody 'temporarily'? For now, Terri having baby K doesn't seem to be in the best interest of either. Maybe Terri is ill and feels she won't be able to give much even during a short visit. I don't know the reason, what I do think is if Terri fought for custody without a way to support her daughter and without a roof to cover their heads, people would be saying how selfish she is. Desiree gave up custody of Kyron and she isn't billed as being a horrific mother, why not the same for Terri? Sometimes that can be for the best interest of the child. moo

Desiree did not stop seeing Kyron and being involved in his life even though he moved in with Kaine primarily. It's a completely different situation than what Terri's baby will be dealing with. Not comparable by far, IMO.

If she is so ill that she couldn't handle even short supervised visitations with her child she should seek immediate medical help, perhaps be hospitalized. Maybe she has, I don't know.

If she poses a danger for her child somehow then she is probably doing the right thing not to see her.

 

[winterrose]

Of course, her attorney settled out of court. Now, she doesn't have to actually speak.

However, THIS is far more interesting:

http://www.kgw.com/news/Hearing-Fri...ng-step-mom-Terri-to-leave-home-98570549.html



She gave up rights to custody? I think that speaks volumes about Terri's future.

I am not saying anything about this in any way,just asking a question,but watching that video,did he have an earring before?I never noticed that.

 

[sleuthy sleutherson]

It could be stragedy but what is Oregons laws about custody cases? Can you come back a few years later and try to redo the custody order?

I'm willing to look at it both ways, but I'm thinking and JMO this is not stragedy but more putting up less of a fight giving Kaine what he wants hoping that will play a part in the end of all this.

Does anyone know how Oregon works regarding custody? I know every state is different.

And it seems like she was so proud of baby K I am just shocked she didn't fight it. I'm amazed every day though by people that proclaim their love for their children and say they are so proud of them then do something totally stupid that ruins their chance of being involved in their childrens lives and I see people that don't fight for their rights and it just kills me.

Even if she did do something to Kyron, you would think she would want any little bit she could get with baby K.

 

[gitana1]

BBM

Just wondering out loud here when I ask, ''signing something under duress'' might apply as a defence in future?:angel:

It is a possible defense, just not a good one. Especially since she has the benefit of a really, really good attorney in her corner, advising her.

But, let me clarify. I used the words 'stipulated judgment" earlier. I don't know that she signed anything. I kind of think her attorney simply said that she does not contest the RO request and that they agreed in the hall that she would get out of the house on Saturday, an agreement that was later put on the record. I don't know how that would relate to a duress claim though.

 

[Donjeta]

Supposing this is temporary, the longer the temporary situation stays like this the more like a total stranger she will be to this child, and once she is a stranger the chances of uprooting the child from her father's custody in favor of the mother must be pretty slim unless the father is found unfit, even if she was completely exonerated from all charges whatsoever.