2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[Wrinkles]

--- snipped ---
It's not as if baby K is with a bad parent. Kaine is a good person, so she knows that baby K is being well taken care of right now.
--- snipped ---

Hello Der BeanE dear

So, TH was looking to have a good person murdered?

 

[Wrinkles]

There's a poster named Aqualina on the Willamette Week site, who writes as if she has some inside information. She claims the landscaper is going to be charged with filing a false report, and the RO will be dropped, and that is what Terri is waiting for.
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07...itional-funds-for-kyron-horman-investigation/

I'm wondering if Aqualina shared her inside information with TH's attorney so that they could get the show on the road with contesting that RO and TH could see her baby girl. Why wait if all "probable cause" is unfounded?

 

[miabellamoure]

come with us to the dark side, c, i think you're ready, lol...seriously, i truly appreciate your ongoing and thoughtful consideration of all sides in this...

I have a step-ladder ready and waiting for any & all who require assistance parting with their perch atop that fence...:angel:

 

[Wrinkles]

That depends on what agency is doing the supervision. The big agency that does visitation supervision across the river is a jobs program. They train ex-felons, recovering addicts, people with health and learning disabilities to supervise/transport/document visitation. They are trained not to put their own lives at risk however, so given an altercation with a parent or a stranger, they are instructed to call 911.

There is the option to pay for private supervision, but that can cost more than $100/hr, and most likely at this point TH would be on the hook to pay for it. With what income?

Um...would she, if having the money for her attorney OR the person who fronted the money for the attorney deny her $100 dollar visits to see her baby girl?

 

[R4ORT]

Personally I cannot think of any reason that I would not fight tooth and nail to see my dds if separated from them as TH is.

However, we do not know if she is fighting behind the scenes as she doesn't seem to be forthcoming with info (?)

If I push myself into coming up with a reason for K having sole custody and her having nil/restricted access, the only one I can think is that TH wants baby K to have the stability of the family home and her own belongings around her.

 

[rnmif]

Um...would she, if having the money for her attorney OR the person who fronted the money for the attorney deny her $100 dollar visits to see her baby girl?

No point fighting for custody until the rest is resolved. Which is why her attorney filed a motion to delay. Without competent representation, there is the very real risk of conviction, whether or not she is guilty.

We do not yet know what the retainer was, if a retainer was paid at all, if there was a contingency in lieu of part of his normal retainer, etc.

I have said elsewhere, I find it interesting that the divorce attorney filed to delay. Unless someone else is charged, it really won't matter one way or another how the dissolution happens, because TH won't be around to enjoy her daughter or any joint assets.

If however, Kaine is (by some long stretch) found guilty, that's a major game changer in the divorce proceedings, no?

 

[Donjeta]

IMO she should have asked for supervised visits and she would have got them. It would be in the best interest of her baby not to be abruptly cut off from her mom, especially if she plans to be proven innocent and apply for custodial rights again some day.

I sometimes wonder if she is doing this to protect Baby K. She may know who took Kyron and has been threatened that Baby K will be next if she says anything. That brings up the question of would you give your life up for your child. JMO

If she knows who took Kyron the best thing she could do to protect baby K IMO is to ring LE with one of her shiny new batphones and tell them who took Kyron where to find them, and ask them to protect baby K while that person is not in custody yet.

 

[Donjeta]

No point fighting for custody until the rest is resolved. Which is why her attorney filed a motion to delay. Without competent representation, there is the very real risk of conviction, whether or not she is guilty.

We do not yet know what the retainer was, if a retainer was paid at all, if there was a contingency in lieu of part of his normal retainer, etc.

I have said elsewhere, I find it interesting that the divorce attorney filed to delay. Unless someone else is charged, it really won't matter one way or another how the dissolution happens, because TH won't be around to enjoy her daughter or any joint assets.

If however, Kaine is (by some long stretch) found guilty, that's a major game changer in the divorce proceedings, no?

Yeah, if Kaine was found guilty of Kyron's disappearance it would make him look a lot worse in the divorce court, BUT, if Terri thinks for a moment that he might be found guilty of killing Kyron or selling him to a pedophile network or whatever, there is no reason in the world that she would let him have custody of her daughter without a fight. IMO.

 

[DairyGirl]

There's a poster named Aqualina on the Willamette Week site, who writes as if she has some inside information. She claims the landscaper is going to be charged with filing a false report, and the RO will be dropped, and that is what Terri is waiting for.
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07...itional-funds-for-kyron-horman-investigation/

That post was written on July 22nd. It hasn't happened yet and I don't think it will. Even if the MFH weren't on the table there is still the matter of Kyron being missing. With all that is going on I have to believe that LE has some compelling evidence for it to go to a Grand Jury. I still think the RO would stand even without the MFH. That is, if Terri ever decided to challenge it. Which she won't do because she seems to have something to hide.

 

[mayagrl]

RO's work both ways. This also prevents Kaine from harrassing Terri (although he's sure done a good job during pressers).

He wants her to tell the truth and help bring Kyron home. I don't see expecting Terri to participate in clearing up her inconsistences as badgering her or harrassing her. He was putting pressure on her, rightfully so, his child is missing and her story doesn't add up. I think he's shown restraint. Terri has a long history of inappropriate behavior:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/kyron-hor...d-explosive-court-documents/story?id=11050953

A records search of Terri Horman under her current, maiden and previous married names turned up a DUI conviction in 2005 in which she pleaded guilty not only to driving under the influence, but also to "reckless endangerment of another."
Oregon State Police Lt. Gregg Hastings told ABCNews.com that the endangerment charge stemmed from the fact that her son, who was 11 at the time, was in the vehicle when she was stopped.
A spokeswoman for the court in Marion County, Ore., said Horman was sentenced to 12 months probation, a 90-day suspension of her driver's license and she had to attend alcohol counseling programs and attend a victim impact statement.
In addition, she wracked up nine traffic infractions, including several for speeding and one for driving with an expired license, between 1988 and 2004.

Add to that 3 marriages before age 35, messing around with a married man with pregnant wife, alleged murder for hire, failing 2 ldts and walking on another, sexting the landscaper and M Cook, and last but not least, not being able or willing to account for her time on June 4th. IMO Terri is a trainwreck and has been for a long time. I say keep the pressure on, back her into a corner where she has no one left to manipulate and use. Then, maybe Kyron can come home.

 

[ThoughtFox]

This link on KGW says gym visit preceded the time she was served with the RO:

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Clerk-Terri-Horman-tried-to-abduct-daughter-from-gym-98346624.html

Why KGW calls it an attempted "abduction" I don't know. She can't abduct a child she still has every reason to believe she has legal rights to. If anything, Kaine "abducted" K when he left the home.

Visit preceded restraining order
Shortly after the incident Kaine Horman obtained a restraining order to block Terri from any contact with Kiara or himself.

He left the home two days before the RO was filed:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kaine_horman_asks_court_to_hav.html

Yeah, but look at cause and effect. The point is, if Terri hadn't acted suspiciously in so many ways Kaine wouldn't have left the house. Her actions are the catalyst for the RO, not Kaine's. He hadn't tried to take the child away from her until he found out about the sexting, the other men, and the possible MFH plot.

We don't know if she would have abducted her daughter or not - but I can't fault Kaine Horman for erring on the side of caution when his son was already missing. It's only logical.

 

[Donjeta]

Yeah... he might have done something to Kyron, I don't know. It doesn't look like he's being investigated by the grand jury now but he might have.

Just saying that if the reason Terri doesn't contest the RO is that she thinks that it will work out better for her custodially if she waits to have Kaine revealed as the perp, it doesn't make sense (from my perspective as a mother) for her to agree that Kaine should have the custody of her daughter in the meantime. Because if he was willing to be parted from his son for eight weeks or more just to play a nasty trick to Terri there would be no saying what he is willing to do with their daughter just to play another nasty trick to Terri. I don't think she could have the confidence that her daughter is safe with him if she thought he was behind Kyron's disappearance, and so it doesn't make sense to me to use that as the explanation why she didn't contest the RO and no access to her daughter and allowed him to have the sole custody for the time being.

 

[rnmif]

Yeah... he might have done something to Kyron, I don't know. It doesn't look like he's being investigated by the grand jury now but he might have.

Just saying that if the reason Terri doesn't contest the RO is that she thinks that it will work out better for her custodially if she waits to have Kaine revealed as the perp, it doesn't make sense (from my perspective as a mother) for her to agree that Kaine should have the custody of her daughter in the meantime. Because if he was willing to be parted from his son for eight weeks or more just to play a nasty trick to Terri there would be no saying what he is willing to do with their daughter just to play another nasty trick to Terri. I don't think she could have the confidence that her daughter is safe with him if she thought he was behind Kyron's disappearance, and so it doesn't make sense to me to use that as the explanation why she didn't contest the RO and no access to her daughter and allowed him to have the sole custody for the time being.

If he wanted to set her up for child endangerment, I doubt he meant Kyron to be gone 8 weeks. 8 hours would have done it. Until the school called LE that is.

And what anyone did before this little boy disappeared, they're not likely to get away with after.

There are just too many things that don't add up. Maybe LE is trying to set up TH. Maybe KH. Maybe someone else entirely. I get the sense they're narrowing in on a suspect based on the GJ, but which one. We're all left to wonder. Really nothing is going to be clear until we hear prosecution and defense make a case. I hope it's not long. I hope they find Kyron soon.

 

[ami]

There's a poster named Aqualina on the Willamette Week site, who writes as if she has some inside information. She claims the landscaper is going to be charged with filing a false report, and the RO will be dropped, and that is what Terri is waiting for.
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07...itional-funds-for-kyron-horman-investigation/

Considering the sheer number of 'credible-sounding' leads LE has had to sort through and has either ignored or investigated finding no proof - I have to think that something about this story was corroborated enough for them to follow up, inform Kaine about and recommend removing the baby from her mother and an immediate divorce. That's a serious response to some random guy's far-fetched sounding accusation.... unless there was some proof or evidence that convinced LE he was credible.

I mean we now know that in the early days of the investigation, a lot of people were coming forward with stories about Terri and Kaine. What was it about this one story - in a sea of other tips - that was credible enough to make it into LE's recommendations to Kyron's family? I don't know, but I have to believe there was something that gave it credibility.

I'm not sure Kaine did anything so diabolical. One of the reasons I'm having a hard time ruling him out is the difference in demeanor at the first presser. There's this picture of the four of them. TY and DY, with their heads together and matching expressions of grief, TH with her head buried in Kaine's chest, looking... grasping, desperate and confused, and Kaine, looking strangely calm.

Actually, I didn't see him express overwhelming grief the way the other three did until the interview at the wall a couple of weeks ago, and the diatribe about Kyron being afraid. That's when I got very scared. Why was he calm before, and not now? It doesn't have to be because he did something. I was wondering today, how DID LE know about the MFH plot? If Kaine had a new love, and was trying to jettison TH and keep custody, setting her up for another child endangerment charge would be a great way to do it. Pay someone to claim your wife offered him money to take him out. Maybe the guy reported such a thing, but LE didn't find it credible enough to investigate.

If that didn't work, maybe you lure your son out when you know you have an alibi, and your wife is taking him to school. You hand him off to your new GF. Maybe he's found later that night, and she endangered him. If things get out of control and LE is called, and she has to keep him longer. This all ties in with my did I or didn't I see them.... What if new GF isn't so fond of kids? Could that explain why he's become more upset?

I don't know. Maybe he is just grieving. Maybe he stashed him and he's stressed because things got out of control. I just keep clinging to hope that he did it, because I emphatically don't believe he'd hurt his own son. We all know the statistics. Maybe I just cling to the insane because I think I saw them, and it gives me reason to hope.

Hopefully some kind of clarity comes from the hearing on the 25th. And maybe we do get an indictment. I have a lot of faith in MCSO.

BBM. Kaine's emotional response makes sense to me given what we know of him. He seemed focused on bringing Kyron home, problem-solving and handling the stress by being a "doer" -meet with LE, formulate a strategy, come up with ideas for Kyron's room for his return, etc.

I come from a family of "doers" and have seen this pattern a lot... for instance when recently a family member was diagnosed with a fatal illness, the first thing that happened was two of us dove into researching the illness, one person started cooking meals to stock the freezer for those doing the research, another person started making calls for a second opinion and researching the best doctors in the field, etc. None of us cried at first, or allowed ourselves to break down in favor of "taking care of business". That was how we handled "the problem" of the illness, by sublimating our emotions for the short term to "solve it". Break down later.

Although rnmif, I know you have a personal reason for looking upon Kaine with suspicion and I completely respect your point of view.

 

[AbbieNormal]

Until the person responsible for taking Kyron and doing God-knows-what with him, and until Terri is cleared completely of any wrongdoing in Kyrons disappearance (which I doubt will happen) she should not be allowed anywhere near that baby. From what I now about Terri now, she is a danger to children, her own step children as well as her own children. JMO. I know many will disagree with me. Thats just how I feel...

 

[Emeralgem]

I'm not sure Kaine did anything so diabolical. One of the reasons I'm having a hard time ruling him out is the difference in demeanor at the first presser. There's this picture of the four of them. TY and DY, with their heads together and matching expressions of grief, TH with her head buried in Kaine's chest, looking... grasping, desperate and confused, and Kaine, looking strangely calm.
Actually, I didn't see him express overwhelming grief the way the other three did until the interview at the wall a couple of weeks ago, and the diatribe about Kyron being afraid. That's when I got very scared. Why was he calm before, and not now? It doesn't have to be because he did something. I was wondering today, how DID LE know about the MFH plot? If Kaine had a new love, and was trying to jettison TH and keep custody, setting her up for another child endangerment charge would be a great way to do it. Pay someone to claim your wife offered him money to take him out. Maybe the guy reported such a thing, but LE didn't find it credible enough to investigate.

If that didn't work, maybe you lure your son out when you know you have an alibi, and your wife is taking him to school. You hand him off to your new GF. Maybe he's found later that night, and she endangered him. If things get out of control and LE is called, and she has to keep him longer. This all ties in with my did I or didn't I see them.... What if new GF isn't so fond of kids? Could that explain why he's become more upset?

I don't know. Maybe he is just grieving. Maybe he stashed him and he's stressed because things got out of control. I just keep clinging to hope that he did it, because I emphatically don't believe he'd hurt his own son. We all know the statistics. Maybe I just cling to the insane because I think I saw them, and it gives me reason to hope.

Hopefully some kind of clarity comes from the hearing on the 25th. And maybe we do get an indictment. I have a lot of faith in MCSO.

IMHO Terri's actions in that pc was all show..Kaine is the one who looked confused not Terri. Also I didn't notice any overwhelming grief going on with Terri either in that pc..
Somewhat O/T for this thread, but let me add I have never seen any photos of Kyron and Terri H together that prove she was attentive to Kyron or a loving stepmother.JMO

 

[mmmagique]

I'm not sure Kaine did anything so diabolical. One of the reasons I'm having a hard time ruling him out is the difference in demeanor at the first presser. There's this picture of the four of them. TY and DY, with their heads together and matching expressions of grief, TH with her head buried in Kaine's chest, looking... grasping, desperate and confused, and Kaine, looking strangely calm.

Actually, I didn't see him express overwhelming grief the way the other three did until the interview at the wall a couple of weeks ago, and the diatribe about Kyron being afraid. That's when I got very scared. Why was he calm before, and not now? It doesn't have to be because he did something. I was wondering today, how DID LE know about the MFH plot? If Kaine had a new love, and was trying to jettison TH and keep custody, setting her up for another child endangerment charge would be a great way to do it. Pay someone to claim your wife offered him money to take him out. Maybe the guy reported such a thing, but LE didn't find it credible enough to investigate.

If that didn't work, maybe you lure your son out when you know you have an alibi, and your wife is taking him to school. You hand him off to your new GF. Maybe he's found later that night, and she endangered him. If things get out of control and LE is called, and she has to keep him longer. This all ties in with my did I or didn't I see them.... What if new GF isn't so fond of kids? Could that explain why he's become more upset?

I don't know. Maybe he is just grieving. Maybe he stashed him and he's stressed because things got out of control. I just keep clinging to hope that he did it, because I emphatically don't believe he'd hurt his own son. We all know the statistics. Maybe I just cling to the insane because I think I saw them, and it gives me reason to hope.

Hopefully some kind of clarity comes from the hearing on the 25th. And maybe we do get an indictment. I have a lot of faith in MCSO.

He's an engineer. They react differently to things than most people do.

And considering the fact that (iirc) Kaine claimed he didn't even know they *had* a yard guy, it would be pretty difficult for him to conspire with him, no?

 

[PaulaF513]

Well, remember she was going to kidnap her from the gym- was that verified/documented in MSM or elsewhere? This woman seems to take the law kind of lightly, IMO, and to like to take it into her own hands as well...so why fight it legally when you can find a way to ignore it, circumvent it, etc...?

I disagree with that assesment that she was planning to "kidnap" her own daughter. That is from a gym worker about her questions before the RO was served on her.

 

[Calliope]

I've posted my theory of why she isn't fighting the RO at this time. It was poo-poo'd by many. Oh well.

Why should she fight the RO now, when there's a snowball's chance in hell she'll win and risk her defense in a probable trial related to Kyron's disappearance where, if found guilty, she'll never have her daughter again? Why not put aside the desire for immediate gratification (which won't happen in any case) and look toward a long-term goal that is more likely to be achieved?

 

[BeanE]

Hello Der BeanE dear

So, TH was looking to have a good person murdered?

Personally, I don't believe there was a murder for hire plot. I think the landscaper was looking for his 15 minutes, and LE was looking to close a case.