2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[gwenabob]

Hello, who was the one playing sexting games with MC? Playing the batphone game with her friends? Playing games with her alibi and the teacher and this whole case? And now playing the quiet game with everyone? If anyone has been playing games in this case, it's been Terri, not the other way around. I refuse to feel sorry for her or view her as a victim. Kaine and Desiree have NOT played games here. All they've wanted is Terri to admit what she knows, to tell them what she did to Kyron and where he is now. That's not games to me.



No, it should be move on with life and then find Kyron. Giving Terri any extra attention or dragging this divorce out does nothing to help Kaine or find Kyron. Kaine needs to close this portion of his life and move on to finding Kyron. That's the most important thing, not dragging this out and making Terri the center of attention through a divorce case.



We've heard PLENTY from TMH without her saying a word. We have texts and emails FROM HER. And the only reason she's quiet is because her lawyer put a muzzle on her. That's what it took to shut her up. You think there wouldn't be more texts and emails had Houze not taken her cellphone and computer away? She doesn't need to actually SAY anything. Her written words and actions have said MORE than enough about who she is, her attitude about this case, and what she's willing to do while a child goes missing. And then she shows to up to a five minute court hearing looking great for what? She just couldn't stand not having any attention on her. You don't get all gussied up for a five minute court hearing and having bodyguards all around you unless you want to get noticed. Kaine and Desiree only added to that, and now they've stopped for weeks. Now it's not about Terri anymore. Now it's about Kyron, and that's where it should be.



I am not saying he's been Mr. Nice Guy to her. Why do my words always get twisted out of proportion? But up until now, it's been all about Terri and what she's done, and things of that nature. To go forth with with contempt charge would still be playing on her level. And Kaine is showing that he's not doing that anymore. No more gossip mills, no more games. He's not going to let this turn into a circus. It's not about Terri, it's about finding Kyron. I'm saying this is showing he is more serious and focused now. Others seem to think that him doing this is showing weakness or wanting Terri back in his life. I'm saying it's the exact opposite of that. He's not being nice by doing this, not one bit.



Of course, that's what this case is all about. KYRON. Finding him, bringing him home, making his kidnapper/murdered face the consequences for what happened to him. I do agree that they realize that the soap opera crap has to stop. I don't think they ever demonized her. Terri's actions and shenanigans demonized her. Had she shut up from the beginning, this would have been a whole different case. But she chose to make bad decisions and turn this into a circus herself. That's not Kaine and Desiree's fault.

EXCELLENT! Thank you, Aedrys for this well thought out post.

 

[STEADFAST]

I never suggested that he shouldn't have done those things. Thinking from her perspective, as what I was quoting in my original post suggested that he was showing TH he wasn't playing nice guy anymore.

From her perspective, he hasn't been playing nice.

You never know. She may have been expecting a harsher response to her doings. I think I would have reacted more harshly than Kaine has.

 

[cluciano63]

I'm sorry, but this case is the biggest three-ring circus ever...dropping one motion does not make it less so, to me.

I'd be hiring private search teams about now, and a private detective, no matter who in my family was a member of LE. That's what making it about Kyron would mean to me, if he were mine and missing. Finding him, looking for him, physically, not going on TV to announce who you think is holding back, as that does not seem to be doing the trick. I wouldn't speak badly about LE but I would think I had the right by now to begin my own set of searches and investigations. The money to start is there now, maybe that is what we will see happen.

 

[SmoothOperator]

EXCELLENT! Thank you, Aedrys for this well thought out post.

I second that!
[Tho I read your posts and do understand from your clear and precise points EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN, THERE ISN'T ANYTHING UNCLEAR NOR HARD TO UNDERSTAND, BUT RATHER WELL THOUGHT OUT INTELLIGENT VIEWS THAT YOU HAVE A KNACK FOR WORDING THEM PERFECTLY.. EASILY UNDERSTOOD... EASY-PEASY! ]

 

[miabellamoure]

I never suggested that he shouldn't have done those things. Thinking from her perspective, as what I was quoting in my original post suggested that he was showing TH he wasn't playing nice guy anymore.

From her perspective, he hasn't been playing nice.

bbm

Have we heard directly from Terri as to her perspective...because from all accounts, I haven't heard her speak. Link?

 

[miabellamoure]

I'm sorry, but this case is the biggest three-ring circus ever...dropping one motion does not make it less so, to me.

I'd be hiring private search teams about now, and a private detective, no matter who in my family was a member of LE. That's what making it about Kyron would mean to me, if he were mine and missing. Finding him, looking for him, physically, not going on TV to announce who you think is holding back, as that does not seem to be doing the trick. I wouldn't speak badly about LE but I would think I had the right by now to begin my won set of searches and investigations. The money to start is there now, maybe that is what we will see happen.

I can completely empathize with that need to find my child...I don't know that I could be as strong and patient as Desiree, Tony & Kaine.

 

[goatman]

bbm

Have we heard directly from Terri as to her perspective...because from all accounts, I haven't heard her speak. Link?

Which is why I stated "thinking from her perspective" As in putting myself in her shoes. Having said it once, I didn't think it necessary it say again. Silly me.

 

[lynmaree]

I second that!

And a third from me!!!
I have such a hard time reading the posts that are critical of Kaine's decisions/actions up to this point. We all seem to forget that he MUST be being advised by not only his atty but LE as well and is following any advice that he thinks may solicit a reaction or slip up by the person he believes STOLE his baby!

How can any of us say for certain what we would do in a similar situation if we havent in fact ever been in one?

I had a far fetched thought that maybe dropping the motion is the beginning of some bargaining back and forth between the opposing attorneys. If it ultimately aids in bringing Kyron home than give the squirrel a free pass if need be...doesnt matter at all and I think thats what Kaine is trying to portray...that its not about TH its about KYRON and anything else is just useless garbage unless it brings him back...she doesnt deserve attention at all, negative or positive and he is no longer going to fuel her 15 minutes...in her narcissistic mind she loves the spotlight....JMO

 

[linus]

My speculation is that, as someone suggested earlier, Kaine's lawyer didn't feel like they had a super-strong chance of winning on this relatively minor charge. They definitely had enough to bring it to trial, but it would be a nightmare (at least for KH, DY, and the rest of "us" who believe TH was somehow involved) if TH were to be cleared of the very first charge leveled against her. Legally, it wouldn't be a huge deal, but what an emotional defeat for those who believe TH holds the key to Kyron's whereabouts. (It is all too east to imagine a sleazy editor slapping a "Not Guilty" headline over a photo of TH if the court found in her favor.) Kaine's lawyer doesn't want to bring anything against Terri unless it's air-tight. At least, I hope I'm right about this, and I hope it's the strategy LE is actively employing, as well.

 

[Amster]

Terri seems to have a group of defenders. Every time Kaine and Desiree are in the media, they are torn apart by these people. (not ws posters, other places and the Terri fan site)

Also, I believe that Terri hates Kaine and Desiree. Seeing their pain is something she relishes and delights in. IMO

Not sure how it is up to Kaine to drop the RO charges....whatever...but, the less attention paid to Terri and her disgusting activities with MC, the better.

 

[gitana1]

A contempt motion is a tool used by either side to a case, or a judge, when one party has violated court's orders. It is used to punish the offending party and to hopefully prevent further violations. A finding of contempt in a family law case leads to monetary sanctions, and more rarely, jail time. But it is often used because a finding of contempt creates a black mark against the offending party and can influence the court to view that person a certain way which can be handy when trying to get certain orders. For example, if a person violates a custody order, and later, the issue of custody resurfaces, having a finding of contempt against you could cause the court to view you negatively and thus to create custody orders not as much in your favor. (This contempt, however, is not about custody. That's just an example).

I'm not sure why Kaine dropped it except that it is costly, judges hate them and in this case, it could be hard to prove that TH willfully showed MC the order. She could say he sneaked a peak. I also like the idea that MC could be working with LE and they decided that they do not want what MC knows to become public record (although they could seal the record). I doubt that Kaine dropped this motion because something bigger is coming down the pike. My best guess is that he dropped it for the exact reason he said. He is fighting the abatement and dropping this shows he is eager to get the case over with.

ETA: This is not thud-worthy in my book. It happens all the time in family law cases. (Filing and then dropping such motions).

Well I guess I can't see tying up courts with this, on either part. Just tell each other where the money came from-a judge will probably say they have to, won't they, to make sure neither is using joint funds? I just am not a big fan of courts being used for basic stuff that could be answered so easily.

Yes. Both parties must divulge the source of their attorney's fees in a divorce. However, Kaine is not talking about the fees for TH's divorce attorney. He's asking about her criminal attorney's fees. I think he does have a right to that info as well. If there was no disso, it's unlikely he'd be entitled unless he filed some other sort of action.

Does anyone know if Kaine would have had to testify to anything that he might not want to, if he pressed forward with this part of the suit?

No, he would not. In a contempt action, the only thing discussed is the contents of the order thought to be violated, how and when the accused learned of the order and how and when it was violated. Kaine would not have anything to say at that hearing.

No, just anything...I mean would he have to address anything that might make him uncomfortable? Like Terri's allegations about him having an affair, which is (I believe) what she allegedly told the landscaper? Could Terri's defense ask him that and force him to take the fifth if he did not want to answer, for example?

No.

It just isn't logical for Kaine to want Terri to be fined for indirect contempt of court. Since he is still married to her, part of the fine could become his financial responsibility because Terri is unemployed.

Not true. She would be solely responsible for payment of any fine, from separate funds.

For weeks, many have been speculating about how this would play out because Terri would be under oath, and the door would, potentially, open for information about Kyron. Many have asserted that Terri and her lawyers are avoiding any situation in which she will be place under oath. And then the least likely thing in the world happens, and all that pressure, all that potential is alleviated by Kaine voluntarily dropping the contempt motion?

Kaine just gave her an out! WHY?!

Am I the only one who sees this as completely jaw dropping in its implications?

This contempt would be unlikely to lead to any info regarding Kyron, at least in the sense that nothing TH could say regarding the alleged actual contempt would be relevant to finding Kyron. It was probably part of an overall pressure tactic and also was done simply because Kaine was angry that she violated the order by showing info to another. It seems to me he thought Th was trying to give info to MC to watch Kyron and possibly retrieve baby K, because TH's attempts to take the baby from the gym without Kaine knowing were mentioned in the contempt. If so, he wanted TH punished for that.

well let me ask this.
what would be gained by this motion?
was anything gained by filing it in the first place? Was information revealed?

ETA: what I mean is, was the act of filing the motion enough to accomplish anything and so there is no need to move ahead?

It could have been enough to let TH know that if she violates any orders again, she'll be in trouble. Filing it acts as a warning. I have filed such motions for the same reason.

I think that KH's lawyer is focusing her legal strategy. When she filed the contempt charge, it was just one of those "make her fight it in court" sorts of motions.

But then, Mr Bunch filed the motion for abeyance. I'm inferring that KH is planning to fight the motion for abeyance, meaning that he will in a way be asking for a speedy resolution to matters.

If that is true, then going to court over the contempt motion is contrary to wanting to get the divorce settled quickly.

Therefore, drop the contempt motion.

Plus, the judge is likely to ask just who was hurt the most by release of the information in the RO? I think the obvious answer is TMH because I cannot imagine any circumstances where being suspected of MFH could improve one's reputation.

Releasing the information in the RO was a self-defeating move, so what more punishment would be necessary?

And then there's the fact that the Willamette Week and The Oregonian had both heard rumours about the MFH allegations and were on the verge of releasing stories about them. So it isn't like the information in the RO was going to stay secret even without MC and his cellphone.

Besides, at least in my state, family law attorneys bill double their office fee for court time. For example, if a lawyer bills $100/hour for office time, they bill $200/hour for every minute spent in court. Why bother going to court for such a small and essentially harmless (to KH) violation of the RO?

The cost can be prohibitive. When funds are limited, sometimes clients and attorneys revamp their strategies.

I thought the purpose of the contempt motion was to protect the baby (and Kaine), but let's concentrate on the baby, from the woman who is supposed to have kidnapped or murdered Kaine's other child. You know - Kyron?

And I thought there was great fear that because she allegedly kidnapped and murdered one of Kaine's children, that there was great legitimate fear that she was going to kidnap or murder the baby too?

And I thought there was great legitimate fear that because she allegedly had this MFH plot thing going on that she might kill Kaine?

Where did all that fear and need for protection of the baby go? and of Kaine?

Kaine dropping this tells me he's no longer afraid - for himself, or for the baby. Why not? What happened to change that?

This just makes no sense.

The primary reason for the contempt was not to protect the baby and Kaine. It was meant to punish TH for violating it. The RO acts to protect the baby and Kaine.

While Kaine was not required to explain why he was dropping the motion, one legal expert familiar with the case said it would allow Kaine to try and speed up divorce proceedings.

snip

"It's an act of good faith on our part," Kaine told KGW. "It shows that we're serious about not wasting the court's time with side issues. We want to get the divorce wrapped up so we can deal the important things and move forward."

snip

"We need to get this wrapped up," he said. "There are bigger issues that need to be dealt with."

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-tells-KGW-We-need-to-get-this-wrapped-up-102674464.html

Okay. So Kaine doesn't want to waste time on "side issues" that waste the court's time, like the previously perceived grave threat to his and his baby's life.

Great news! I'm glad those threats were determined not to exist. I was particularly worried about the baby. Now I can breathe a sigh of relief.

I'm going to ask my DH to bake me a double batch of blueberry muffins, and then I'm going to stuff my face with every darn one of them.

Dropping the contempt does not nullify the threats Kaine believes existed. The RO is still in place and shows he believes those threats to be real and ongoing.

The RO is already in effect. The deadline to contest that has passed, IIRC. That gives Kaine custody for at least a year. I don't see why Terri would be forced to answer to it in the divorce case.

Well, usually in such a case, the custody orders earlier issued in an RO are just adopted in the disso judgment. But, if TH chose to try to modify the custody orders, she could try by asking that the custody orders be modified in the final judgment. She would then have to answer the RO application allegations, though, unless they were rendered moot for some reason (like Kyron is found and it is discovered that TH had nothing to do with it).

Not true...I posted this link above. Terri still can file a modification, even after thirty days.

http://www.courts.oregon.gov/OJD/do...10FAPAUpdate/Packet1/InstrucsCONTEST-9-10.pdf

She can file for a modification of custody whenever she wants, even after 30 days has passed. But modifications are hard to get without new facts arising and the longer the status quo is maintained the dimmer TH's chances at a radical change of the RO custody orders, become.

I've never understood why it would be up to Kaine to decide whether Terri would be charged with contempt of a court order or not. I think his motion was to encourage the court to find her in contempt. Can't the court go after her for contempt if it believes it should even though Kaine may drop his motion?

The court can but won't. Judges hate contempts brought by parties to a disso action. They'd rather not see them at all.

 

[Calliope]

gitana1, I'll ask my question in this thread since it relates to this topic.

The motion was brought to alert the judge that Terri had violated his order. The judge ordered Terri to respond. Isn't it between the judge and Terri now? How does his attorney dropping the motion make any difference? Why would she believe she has the right to tell the judge he should rescind that order?

ETA: I hadn't read your above post yet when I posted this; your last comment kinda-sorta hits on what I'm talking about here, but not quite.

Is contempt considered a crime? If so, that makes it even more confusing to me that Kaine would have any say in whether the order remains. Even if it's not, judge is dealing with Terri directly now. It appears to me that it's out of Kaine's hands; if he'd dropped the motion before the judge ordered Terri to respond, then I think this would make more sense.

Help.

 

[tezi]

His child goes missing and he finds out she wanted him dead, so yes, his next logical step is to set up his wife with a sexting partner. Because that's very important in getting Kyron home.

I don't think so.

Thanks just wasn't enough for this post!

Personally, I think there might be something related to the GJ taking a break and Kaine dropping the contempt charges. Like maybe someone talked?

 

[belimom]

I've never understood why it would be up to Kaine to decide whether Terri would be charged with contempt of a court order or not. I think his motion was to encourage the court to find her in contempt. Can't the court go after her for contempt if it believes it should even though Kaine may drop his motion?

gitana1, I'll ask my question in this thread since it relates to this topic.

The motion was brought to alert the judge that Terri had violated his order. The judge ordered Terri to respond. Isn't it between the judge and Terri now? ....(respectfully snipped...)

It seems like gitana1 did an excellent job of answering all the legal questions... thanks, gitana1! But I wanted to comment on this particular post (please correct me if I'm wrong): if a court order is issued as part of a divorce and is requested by one of the parties, then the other party would have to be the one to file for contempt of court. If a court order is issued from the judge alone (without a request from one of the parties), then the judge would be the one issuing (? - right word?) contempt of court.

My parents banghead are involved in something like this right now where there was a court order requested by one of them (and attorney) that has since been violated by the other. The other one has filed a contempt of court (hearing has been continued...:furious. So it seems that the contempt of court charge is between the two parties, not one of the parties and the judge.

 

[eyes4crime]

Thanks so much Gitana1 for taking the time to answer all the questions...terrific! All our lawyers have been great and selfless with their time. :blowkiss:

 

[Calliope]

It seems like gitana1 did an excellent job of answering all the legal questions... thanks, gitana1! But I wanted to comment on this particular post (please correct me if I'm wrong): if a court order is issued as part of a divorce and is requested by one of the parties, then the other party would have to be the one to file for contempt of court. If a court order is issued from the judge alone (without a request from one of the parties), then the judge would be the one issuing (? - right word?) contempt of court.

My parents banghead are involved in something like this right now where there was a court order requested by one of them (and attorney) that has since been violated by the other. The other one has filed a contempt of court (hearing has been continued...:furious. So it seems that the contempt of court charge is between the two parties, not one of the parties and the judge.

Did Kaine request the RO be sealed? Or did the judge do that because of the nature of the RO and the publicity of Kyron's case? IIRC, didn't the DA or someone in LE request this to be done? (seems like I recall them filing something with the court that it was ok with them to unseal the RO or the judge referring to that)

 

[gitana1]

gitana1, I'll ask my question in this thread since it relates to this topic.

The motion was brought to alert the judge that Terri had violated his order. The judge ordered Terri to respond. Isn't it between the judge and Terri now? How does his attorney dropping the motion make any difference? Why would she believe she has the right to tell the judge he should rescind that order?

ETA: I hadn't read your above post yet when I posted this; your last comment kinda-sorta hits on what I'm talking about here, but not quite.

Is contempt considered a crime? If so, that makes it even more confusing to me that Kaine would have any say in whether the order remains. Even if it's not, judge is dealing with Terri directly now. It appears to me that it's out of Kaine's hands; if he'd dropped the motion before the judge ordered Terri to respond, then I think this would make more sense.

Help.

Contempt in a civil case is quasi-criminal because it can (but rarely) leads to jail time. Basically, it's a civil motion with criminal implications.
Belimom has it right. Contempts of this nature are brought but one party against the other, not by the judge, so the party bringing it has the right to drop it and if they do so, the court would have no reason to keep it going. Judges in family court have enough on their plates without wanting to get involved in contempt actions. As I said, they hate contempt motions. It makes their job difficult and creates or underscores animosity between the parties. There would be no reason for a court to continue a contempt brought and then dropped by a party.
This is not like the state bringing a criminal charge to court. And even in those kinds of cases, have you ever seen a court hold on to a charge when the DA or state's attorney decides to drop the charges? Judges do not interfere with those decisions. They have plenty to deal with without holding on to additional cases that no one wants to bring.

ETA: Okay, I re-read what your asking. There seems to be some confusion. Dropping the contempt does not mean any order is being dropped. Kaine filed a motion requesting an order - an order finding TH in contempt - and that request has been dropped. In other words, Kaine requested that the court find TH had violated a pre-existing order, and then issue new orders punishing her for that. Kaine dropped that request but the prior orders were not touched by his contempt motion. (They were changed, though, earlier. The RO application and initial orders were sealed. They were later unsealed. If TH did anything to violate those previous orders, she could be held in contempt. However, since the alleged violation has to do with revealing the contents of a sealed filing which has since been unsealed, this motion makes me say "Ya pa' que?" which loosely means, "What's the point now?").

Did Kaine request the RO be sealed? Or did the judge do that because of the nature of the RO and the publicity of Kyron's case? IIRC, didn't the DA or someone in LE request this to be done? (seems like I recall them filing something with the court that it was ok with them to unseal the RO or the judge referring to that)

Kaine requested that the RO be sealed. A judge would not demand this on their own because it raises first amendment issues and creates more work for the court. Requests to seal are made by a party or third party intervener and are carefully considered by the court. It is not that easy to get the court to agree to seal a case.

 

[Calliope]

Contempt in a civil case is quasi-criminal because it can (but rarely) leads to jail time. Basically, it's a civil motion with criminal implications.
Belimom has it right. Contempts of this nature are brought but one party against the other, not by the judge, so the party bringing it has the right to drop it and if they do so, the court would have no reason to keep it going. Judges in family court have enough on their plates without wanting to get involved in contempt actions. As I said, they hate contempt motions. It makes their job difficult and creates or underscores animosity between the parties. There would be no reason for a court to continue a contempt brought and then dropped by a party.
This is not like the state bringing a criminal charge to court. And even in those kinds of cases, have you ever seen a court hold on to a charge when the DA or state's attorney decides to drop the charges? Judges do not interfere with those decisions. They have plenty to deal with without holding on to additional cases that no one wants to bring.



Kaine requested that the RO be sealed. A judge would not demand this on their own because it raises first amendment issues and creates more work for the court. Requests to seal are made by a party or third party intervener and are carefully considered by the court. It is not that easy to get the court to agree to seal a case.

Ok, I was wondering if the DA / LE had requested this. I remember reading something to the effect of the judge getting their "ok" to release the information.

Thanks for responding. It's a bit confusing and I appreciate your time in helping me to understand the process.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

Kaine requested that the RO be sealed. A judge would not demand this on their own because it raises first amendment issues and creates more work for the court. Requests to seal are made by a party or third party intervener and are carefully considered by the court. It is not that easy to get the court to agree to seal a case.

bbm...

gitana -thank you for the explanation.

would/could someone from the da's office or from LE's office request a seal even if kaine and his lawyer don't want it?

is the party who asked for the seal the only party that can request the unseal?

as you say kaine or this third party asked for the seal and this is created more work for the court - in your opinion - may the judge be a bit perplexed that this unveiling was asked for? or must the requesting party give the reason for the reversal request to the judge.

 

[wondering1]

bbm...

gitana -thank you for the explanation.

would/could someone from the da's office or from LE's office request a seal even if kaine and his lawyer don't want it?

is the party who asked for the seal the only party that can request the unseal?

as you say kaine or this third party asked for the seal and this is created more work for the court - in your opinion - may the judge be a bit perplexed that this unveiling was asked for? or must the requesting party give the reason for the reversal request to the judge.

What is being unveiled? The R/O was unsealed a long time ago when the motion by the press was pending. Based, I believe, on a representation by the DA (?) that it was no longer necessary for the purpose of protecting the investigation. All KH is doing is dropping his motion to hold TH in contempt for violating the seal order when it was still in place.

eta: sorry for jumping in. I just realized you were directing your question to Gitana...my bad