2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[SurfieTX]

Page 10:

"Law enforcement officials have informed me that more than one circuit court judge has determined probable cause exists to implicate Respondent in Kyron's disappearance and in the murder for hire plot."

Interesting.

 

[SurfieTX]

Page 5:

"It causes great pain to wonder if K was with Respondent on June 4, 2010, and witnessed some imaginable act of horror."

BBM

 

[Calliope]

I see no "field day" for Bunch and Houze. Quite the opposite.

"So, Mr. Horman. You state you were present in the home and shared responsibility for caring for the children 5 to 7 days a week?"

"No, I said 3 to 5 days."

"What about weekends? Were you not present on weekends?"

"Oh yeah."

"And further, you state it was "common" for your wife to be visibly impaired from alcohol several nights a week, "passing out" on the couch as early as 7 pm after "drinking heavily". And going back to your prior statement, you specified you were present during the afternoon and evenings. Is that correct?"

"Yes."

"You also state that Kiara was up late at night, playing and watching TV during this time, correct?"

"Yes."

"And if you "tried" to put Kiara to bed, your wife became "offended". Correct?"

"Yes."

"What do you consider more important, your daughter's well-being or avoiding offending your wife?"

"Kiara's well-being, of course, but ... "

"And you go on to state here that it was "common" to find Kiara up and awake at 1 am while your wife was 'asleep from alcohol'. 'Common'. Is that correct?"

"Yes."

"So you were aware that this child was up and about, alone, in the home?"

[light bulb goes off in Kaine's brain]

"Yes, but ..."

"How old was this child during these occasions you describe, when it was "common" for her to be up and about unsupervised and alone?"

"One, one-and-a-half. But ..."

"Where is your bedroom in the house?"

"Upstairs. But ... "

"So you would go to bed, upstairs, leaving this year old child downstairs and in the care of someone who was "visibly impaired" from alcohol to the point she "passed out", knowing that it was "common" for the child to awaken and be up and about and unsupervised in the middle of the night. Is this correct?"

"Now wait a minute ... "

"Is that correct?"

"Yes. But .. "

"Please tell the court what steps you took to protect this child from such an obvious --- and ongoing --- dangerous situation?"

----

I am confused as to why Rackner thought this document would help her client.

 

[believe09]

I dont know what else to say. I guess Kaine and Rackner were prepared and ready to address some of the gaps that were pointed out in their original reponses. I guess the ping pong match will continue, but I have a hard time seeing how Bunch can respond to the statements without making assertions that are legally binding on Terri's behalf.

 

[believe09]

I think it is easy to pick apart Kaine's participation in TH's disordered conduct. But his reaction is not even slightly uncommon when you have a person in the relationship that has shown signs of alcoholism, depression and domestic violence. He did get out eventually and kept his child safe. But I dont think it is fair to blame the person who is a victim in this case. Kaine is a victim of domestic violence-he has a standing restraining order.

 

[believe09]

Page 10:

"Law enforcement officials have informed me that more than one circuit court judge has determined probable cause exists to implicate Respondent in Kyron's disappearance and in the murder for hire plot."

Interesting.

Sounds like they are alluding to the Grand Jury, doesnt it?

 

[Trt]

Kaine probably slept at night, so that he could get up in the morning to do his job, which was the family's sole means of support. Even though he worked at home a lot, he still would have been at the beck and call of his employer, who more than likely would want to converse with him during daylight hours.

Where is Kyron? Terri knows. Wish she'd tell.

I agree puf...I also posted in another thread how hindsight is 20/20. Kaine said that his friends told him AFTER Kyron went missing that alcohol was missing from their homes when Terri would stay over. He also said that Terri told him that she was on PPD meds. How do we know that this was
not her excuse for "passing out" and why he would choose to tread lightly(as an understanding and supportive husband)? We really don't know and since I doubt Terri or her attorneys will directly address these allegations, we will probably never know.

Jmo

 

[kappy50]

Page 10:

"Law enforcement officials have informed me that more than one circuit court judge has determined probable cause exists to implicate Respondent in Kyron's disappearance and in the murder for hire plot."

Interesting.

I would feel almost certain that Mr.Houze is going to want to know the names of those Judges.

 

[Calliope]

I think it is easy to pick apart Kaine's participation in TH's disordered conduct. But his reaction is not even slightly uncommon when you have a person in the relationship that has shown signs of alcoholism, depression and domestic violence. He did get out eventually and kept his child safe. But I dont think it is fair to blame the person who is a victim in this case. Kaine is a victim of domestic violence-he has a standing restraining order.

This is not placing blame on Kaine at all, although I do wonder why he would allow such to continue --- he does say it was "common". I'm just showing why I feel Bunch will be able to turn this around against him. That doesn't even go into all the interviews Kaine did when he claimed everything was just fine at home. IMO, that's certainly contradictory but he had no obligation to tell the truth to the media.

I feel Rackner didn't think this through, which I find very odd.

I don't envy this judge, having to wade through all this carp.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I see no "field day" for Bunch and Houze. Quite the opposite.

This text...shows their client was in Girls Night Out mode as her little stepson was missing and enduring God-Knows-What. It shows that unemployed stay-at-home Mom Terri had no worries how to cover a large retainer....not even in the first days.

It shows that she was lying and deceiving THEM from the start...and thought nothing of asking others help her to lie and deceive them as well. They may relate now to Kaine...another man she suckered as well.

The public may now ask if these two attorneys even NOW know the truth from their client. Have they too been fooled by Terri's Facebook Perfect Mom persona...when here is the real Terri in this text?

Terri introduced the public to herself in this "window" into her soul in the early days of little Kyron's vanishing. It is amazingly illuminating. Blows the Facebook Terri fake persona right out of the water! No more relying on that! Hello...to the real Terri!

'Facebook Terri' , in her prudish long skirts in court..will never be able to shake off the sexually aggressive images of the "wet spot", the graphic pictures to a near stranger, the bragging about her strength, the cavalier attitude about $350,000, the moral vapidity we read here.

This is supposedly "similar" to her approach to the Landscaper when she was trying to barter sexual activity, not for LIES...but for the death of her husband. The Landscaper was in her employ , trying to make a living. I suggest we all re-read this text and wonder what "similar" texts said to him...and how her chilling detachment might have frightened him into silence.

Since this is one of 100s of texts...Terri's attorneys must wonder...knowing now her propensity to LIE TO THEM...and manipulate others to lie as well...what more is out there? They may well end up being as fooled by Facebook Terri as many others were, including a little boy...who loved her and tried just to survive around her..doing his little projects...staying in his room.

Kaine may have been a fool, deceived by her as well...but the moral depravity...and the penchant for deception that composes the character now revealed about Terri...trumps all!

I wonder if Bunch and Houze are absolutely confident that Facebook Terri isn't playing them publicly for fools?

Excellent post SMM...

 

[ami]

I found these parts especially chilling:

from page 6 (faxed pg 8):

"I asked Respondent repeatedly for answers regarding her whereabouts on June 4, 2010 and Kyron's location. During those conversations, she never expressly denied to me her involvement in Kyron's disappearance, though she has subsequently denied her involvement to law enforcement."

On page 7 (fax pg 9), Kaine explains the timing of his exit from the marital home with baby K, Terri and the gym daycare, and the RO.

June 26: Kaine moves out, and tells Terri that he had been briefed by LE and knew what was going on (in my interpretation he's telling her he believes she is responsible for Kyron's disappearance) and that he would contact her later. Terri tells the media everything is fine and that Kaine's move is just a rumor.

June 28: Terri goes to Kaine's gym to see if Kiara is in daycare. Then is served with RO.

Also the previously quoted (pg 8): "Law enforcement officials have informed me that more than one circuit court judge has determined probably cause exists to implicate Respondent in Kyron's disappearance and in the murder for hire plot."

I kind of already figured they were closing in on probable cause for Kyron's disappearance, but lately have been wondering if the MFH was a load of crap. Interesting but sad to read that the MFH also has enough evidence... ugh.

 

[Calliope]

Sounds like they are alluding to the Grand Jury, doesnt it?

IIRC, judges aren't involved in the process. Except to clarify certain issues. I think one of our attorneys explained this way back somewhere along the line.

 

[believe09]

I get you are trying to suggest what an argument against Kaines actions might be Calliope-no worries.

Frequently we see cases where the victim is blamed for the choices they made. I believe that Kaine successfully removed himself from a situation of domestic violence at a time when he had the proper legal and mental support to do so. He couldnt prevaricate any longer because there was a chance he would die.

Now, many may believe that statement is untrue or inflated-the key piece is what he believed. And what he still believes. And now we know.

 

[believe09]

And fwiw, I think Bunch and Houze are doing a magnificent job with the hand they have been dealt. Personally, I think that Rackner could be a first year law student and possibly still come out on top. But then again, this subject has me a little heated, lol.

 

[loves2bmom]

This, I am afraid, is exactly what Terri, through Bunch, insisted on.

It's gonna get really ugly. Because, really, unless one honestly believes that Kaine had something to do with Kyron's disappareance, Terri just compelled Kaine to tell all. It is gonna get really ugly, mark my words. And Kaine is sympathetic because he is forced to explain in e=detail how he came to feel the way he does.

Bunch messed up IMO

I agree! I fully expect some mud slinging to come in the direction of Kaine and Desiree in the very near future.

 

[stmarysmead]

"So, Mr. Horman. You state you were present in the home and shared responsibility for caring for the children 5 to 7 days a week?"

"No, I said 3 to 5 days."

"What about weekends? Were you not present on weekends?"

"Oh yeah."

"And further, you state it was "common" for your wife to be visibly impaired from alcohol several nights a week, "passing out" on the couch as early as 7 pm after "drinking heavily". And going back to your prior statement, you specified you were present during the afternoon and evenings. Is that correct?"

"Yes."

"You also state that Kiara was up late at night, playing and watching TV during this time, correct?"

"Yes."

"And if you "tried" to put Kiara to bed, your wife became "offended". Correct?"

"Yes."

"What do you consider more important, your daughter's well-being or avoiding offending your wife?"

"Kiara's well-being, of course, but ... "

"And you go on to state here that it was "common" to find Kiara up and awake at 1 am while your wife was 'asleep from alcohol'. 'Common'. Is that correct?"

"Yes."

"So you were aware that this child was up and about, alone, in the home?"

[light bulb goes off in Kaine's brain]

"Yes, but ..."

"How old was this child during these occasions you describe, when it was "common" for her to be up and about unsupervised and alone?"

"One, one-and-a-half. But ..."

"Where is your bedroom in the house?"

"Upstairs. But ... "

"So you would go to bed, upstairs, leaving this year old child downstairs and in the care of someone who was "visibly impaired" from alcohol to the point she "passed out", knowing that it was "common" for the child to awaken and be up and about and unsupervised in the middle of the night. Is this correct?"

"Now wait a minute ... "

"Is that correct?"

"Yes. But .. "

"Please tell the court what steps you took to protect this child from such an obvious --- and ongoing --- dangerous situation?"

----

I am confused as to why Rackner thought this document would help her client.

I believe that the revelations in this document will do several things.

The revelations of Terri's abysmal character flaws will make attempts by counsel to "fast dance" and blame others for her failings...offensive to most people....probably even this judge. The choice in the custody case..is Terri...giggling, photographing herself masturbating, recipient of unknown monies...caring only about her own gratification...or the Dad whose job kept the family fed and the mortgage paid...trying to deal, ineptly perhaps, with her problems.

I think that line if "questioning" makes her attorneys look aligned with endangering a child again. It makes them look complicit...slick...offensive. All things the public despises when a child is at risk.

Is a judge going to hand the Baby to her on slick lawyering? Can any judge be so impervious to public opinion as to think these issues...and any fast talk by her attorneys...will give HIM cover to a public who now sees Facebook Terr's mask torn away?

There is no moral equivalency here. Terri is not just reckless and morally depraved...several judges believe there is evidence that she is capable of Murder for Hire and making a little boy vanish!

These two things are not equal. Just "naughty" on both sides.

No.

A missing little boy, Murder for Hire, sexual depravity in the context of the timing and the fact this guy is almost a stranger...the coldness...this woman is now publicly repulsive. The judge cannot equate this to blaming Kaine in equal measure.

No fancy legal footwork will work here.

Nor would I want it too. Not if Baby K and justice for Kyron is my first concern.

Will it be the Dad who perhaps did not manage the situation perfectly...but came home as often as he could...stayed and tried to keep the family together?

Or giggling, promiscuous, reckless Terri...wherein the pattern of SELF-first is dominant. Drunk and demanding the Baby meet HER needs. Drunk and argumentative. Drunk and sexting. Doing "similar" disgusting things with the guy hired to do the yard. Indiscriminate. Reckless. Entirely self-focused.

Terri has smeared herself. Undermined her false depiction of her "Mommy skills." No judge can call this equal on both sides.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I would feel almost certain that Mr.Houze is going to want to know the names of those Judges.

I would feel almost certain that Terri's attys can certainly ask..... I don't believe that Kaine is playing games and trying to with hold imperative information, nor do I believe that Rackner is either. She is fully aware of the grave importance of this case that is unfortunately intertwined with her client's only son's abduction[and more than likely homicide] case.. Again by Terri's doing..

It is mind blowing just what all this woman is capable of continuing to do driving a knife through the heart of this father[and lest we forget an innocent mother as well, DY]..To literally waste the time of our court system playing more games and continuing to not cooperate.. The doc clearly states that Terri will not cooperate, nor comply with ANY[ZERO, ZILCH, NIL] of what is necessary to even attempt to regain "supervised" parenting time.. She refuses to answer any questioning whatsoever, she refuses to participate in the parenting counseling necessary, to comply with having any of the necessary mental health evals, and even refused to sign the paperwork stating that SHE IS REQUESTING TO HAVE PARENTING TIME.. In other words wasting our courts time playing games with frivolous requests, filings, and motions knowing FULL WELL SHE HAS NO INTENTION OF DOING WHAT IS NECESSARY OF HER TO EVEN GAIN ONE SINGLE, SOLITARY MINUTE OF EVEN SUPERVISED VISITATION WITH HER DAUGHTER..

IMO it is not Rackner, Kaine, nor LE that are cause for concern or negatively questioned of them being ANYTHING BUT 100% WILLINGLY COMPLIANT TO THE COURTS AS WELL AS LE.. To do whatever is in the best interest of his children...

ETA~ I am quite certain that just as most parents you would question all the what ifs and that Kaine feels a tremendous amount of guilt and pain along with the already traumatic event of having lost his only son because of his very own wife... I feel confident in saying this man will go to any and all lengths necessary to absolutely 100% ensure the safety of Baby K..and without a doubt LE and our courts will back him 100% in keeping baby K safe..

 

[SurfieTX]

I would feel almost certain that Terri's attys can certainly ask..... I don't believe that Kaine is playing games and trying to with hold imperative information, nor do I believe that Rackner is either. She is fully aware of the grave importance of this case that is unfortunately intertwined with her client's only son's abduction[and more than likely homicide] case.. Again by Terri's doing..

It is mind blowing just what all this woman is capable of continuing to do driving a knife through the heart of this father[and lest we forget an innocent mother as well, DY]..To literally waste the time of our court system playing more games and continuing to not cooperate.. The doc clearly states that Terri will not cooperate, nor comply with ANY[ZERO, ZILCH, NIL] of what is necessary to even attempt to regain "supervised" parenting time.. She refuses to answer any questioning whatsoever, she refuses to participate in the parenting counseling necessary, to comply with having any of the necessary mental health evals, and even refused to sign the paperwork stating that SHE IS REQUESTING TO HAVE PARENTING TIME.. In other words wasting our courts time playing games with frivolous requests, filings, and motions knowing FULL WELL SHE HAS NO INTENTION OF DOING WHAT IS NECESSARY OF HER TO EVEN GAIN ONE SINGLE, SOLITARY MINUTE OF EVEN SUPERVISED VISITATION WITH HER DAUGHTER..

IMO it is not Rackner, Kaine, nor LE that are cause for concern or negatively questioned of them being ANYTHING BUT 100% WILLINGLY COMPLIANT TO THE COURTS AS WELL AS LE.. To do whatever is in the best interest of his children...

ETA~ I am quite certain that just as most parents you would question all the what ifs and that Kaine feels a tremendous amount of guilt and pain along with the already traumatic event of having lost his only son because of his very own wife... I feel confident in saying this man will go to any and all lengths necessary to absolutely 100% ensure the safety of Baby K..and without a doubt LE and our courts will back him 100% in keeping baby K safe..

I found that interesting too. She won't even sign an affidavit? Why not?

 

[ami]

This is not placing blame on Kaine at all, although I do wonder why he would allow such to continue --- he does say it was "common". I'm just showing why I feel Bunch will be able to turn this around against him. That doesn't even go into all the interviews Kaine did when he claimed everything was just fine at home. IMO, that's certainly contradictory but he had no obligation to tell the truth to the media.

I feel Rackner didn't think this through, which I find very odd.

I don't envy this judge, having to wade through all this carp.

For the same reasons so many other victims of abusive/alcoholic spouses stay in the marriage and try to find a way to make it work and live within the life they've been handed.

Kaine didn't meet the drunk Terri on the couch - he fell in love with a woman who most likely appeared to him as a good and loving and maternal person. Scales fall from your eyes very slowly in a relationship. I'm sure we can all relate to that, even if the partner was not abusive. Most likely her problems crept up on him. Maybe he thought - Everyone gets tipsy once in a while, everyone makes a mistake here and there, some mothers just don't do "schedules" well, she's going through a rough time, she needs help and I'm committed to helping her through this rough time, I'm embarrassed and ashamed to admit to friends and family how bad it's really gotten at home -- etc.

Maybe Kaine was really invested in the thought of having a healthy family and he focused on the times Terri was loving and doting on her children and hoped for the best. Only in the context of what came next did the negatives seem far more important than his hopes that things were really going to be okay at home.

My ex-husband was a drinky sort and very often would fall asleep during a movie, etc., and have to be helped to bed. It could have gone either way. Eventually after some heartfelt discussions and tears on both our parts, he stopped drinking. Now he's remarried to a lovely woman and has more children and is a model father and husband. It can happen, that people go through rough stages and pull themselves together. Or it can go the other way and you later discover that the person was not going through a 'rough stage' at all, but was actually incapable of living a normal life. Hard to tell in the moment, when it's your own spouse and loved one, and when it's your relatively comfortable life at stake.

 

[SmoothOperator]

"So, Mr. Horman. You state you were present in the home and shared responsibility for caring for the children 5 to 7 days a week?"

"No, I said 3 to 5 days."

"What about weekends? Were you not present on weekends?"

"Oh yeah."

"And further, you state it was "common" for your wife to be visibly impaired from alcohol several nights a week, "passing out" on the couch as early as 7 pm after "drinking heavily". And going back to your prior statement, you specified you were present during the afternoon and evenings. Is that correct?"

"Yes."

"You also state that Kiara was up late at night, playing and watching TV during this time, correct?"

"Yes."

"And if you "tried" to put Kiara to bed, your wife became "offended". Correct?"

"Yes."

"What do you consider more important, your daughter's well-being or avoiding offending your wife?"

"Kiara's well-being, of course, but ... "

"And you go on to state here that it was "common" to find Kiara up and awake at 1 am while your wife was 'asleep from alcohol'. 'Common'. Is that correct?"

"Yes."

"So you were aware that this child was up and about, alone, in the home?"

[light bulb goes off in Kaine's brain]

"Yes, but ..."

"How old was this child during these occasions you describe, when it was "common" for her to be up and about unsupervised and alone?"

"One, one-and-a-half. But ..."

"Where is your bedroom in the house?"

"Upstairs. But ... "

"So you would go to bed, upstairs, leaving this year old child downstairs and in the care of someone who was "visibly impaired" from alcohol to the point she "passed out", knowing that it was "common" for the child to awaken and be up and about and unsupervised in the middle of the night. Is this correct?"

"Now wait a minute ... "

"Is that correct?"

"Yes. But .. "

"Please tell the court what steps you took to protect this child from such an obvious --- and ongoing --- dangerous situation?"

----

I am confused as to why Rackner thought this document would help her client.

There are MANY THAT respectfully YET STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH the entire basis above.. None of us[that have no 1st hand experience and knowledge in this vein of the law] have a clue what a well educated defense lawyer team such as Bunch and Houze will question and STRONGLY DISAGREE that they would be foolish in engaging in such a line of questioning as is given as an example above... and only those that legitimately have 1st hand experience and knowledge could even begin to "guess"[and that is all that can be done is guess, and wildly guess at that] would be an atty with this exact vein of law practiced..

and post after post our verified lawyers have stated that Terri has done irreparable damage to her interests of gaining any parenting time[along with much and many detailed posts speaking in lay terms just what a tangled web that Terri herself has weaved]..

IMO no atty worth his salt would engage in anything even resembling the above.. and am anxious to get gitana1's opinions and comments on this latest doc filed with the courts yesterday..as she has been a treasure trove of knowledge and experience in this exact vein of law and a tremendous asset to all of us here in the Kyron Forum...