2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[grandmaj]

I think the lawyers may have recently figured out that Michael Cook was possibly a set up by LE after the failed MFH sting. JMO There has to be something more in those text messages. Maybe releasing some but not all was the warning shot fired over the bow.

All my humble opinion only.

 

[DreamyEye]

In a way, asking for visitation seemed like a stupid move in the first place--but TH's defence team are not stupid people. They did what they did for a reason, and they had something specific they wanted to gain from doing it.

And I agree with Pufnstuf: I don't think TH has been level with her attorneys. Which is really stupid, because defense attorneys usually say they don't want to know for sure whether or not their client is guilty ... and they can deal with scandalous evidence when they know about it before it comes out ... but when negative information about their client takes them by surprise, that's much harder to deal with. I'm sure they have told TH to level with them, short of telling them whether she actually did a crime against Kryon.

 

[pufnstuf]

...it's clear though from the filing that Kaine will not negotiate at all...that is certainly NOT in any interest of baby K. If safety is his only concern, there are ways to provide that. It makes it look more as though he is using her versus protecting her...doesn't really look good in terms of custody.

snipped...

I completely disagree.

Kaine is being a protective father, and he SHOULD NOT negotiate with the woman who is most likely responsible for his son's disappearance and murder.

I'm really astonished that you see this as him "using" K****. IF anyone is using this child, it's her mother, who most likely thought that filing for visitation would soften her rather appalling image. EPIC FAIL.

 

[Pensfan]

I completely disagree.

Kaine is being a protective father, and he SHOULD NOT negotiate with the woman who is most likely responsible for his son's disappearance and murder.

I'm really astonished that you see this as him "using" K****. IF anyone is using this child, it's her mother, who most likely thought that filing for visitation would soften her rather appalling image. EPIC FAIL.

ITA. There are disturbing things that are in TH's medical records which worry her attorneys. These disturbing things should also worry Kaine.

 

[pufnstuf]

motion to dismiss here.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think it is her medical history...I think it is the fact of having to answer questions, to determine current state of mind and whatever other questions might come up.

If her medical history is so disturbing, she probably should not have been in charge of children to begin with.

 

[loves2bmom]

I think the lawyers may have recently figured out that Michael Cook was possibly a set up by LE after the failed MFH sting. JMO There has to be something more in those text messages. Maybe releasing some but not all was the warning shot fired over the bow.

All my humble opinion only.

I think you're right Grandma. Looks to me like they are going to try and reach an agreement behind the scenes. Doesn't sound like they were going to be able to use those texts in court even though TH has pretty much admitted sending them. The fact Kaine and/or MC may have tried to do a sting themselves does NOT change my opinion of Terri or her possible involvement in the criminal case(s) it's a shame they can't (or it appears they can't) use the texts against her in the civil case.

"Respondent's lawyers will continue their efforts to put into place an agreement that is acceptable to the parties, without the need for what can only end up being litigation that is destructive to the parties and their daughter.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/106634729.html

ETA: I change my mind after reading #15 on the motion to dismiss. I don't think an agreement behind the scenes is imminent. #15 says:
"However, under all the circumstances, issues regarding parenting time will need to wait for another day when additional facts can be obtained and presented."

 

[loves2bmom]

I gotta stop reading other sites and stay here where people make sense! I'm just going around in a circle in my thought process and I'm totally confused! :crazy:

 

[cluciano63]

I think the bit about reaching or hoping to reach an agreement is BS & spin.

 

[For The Kids]

I think the bit about reaching or hoping to reach an agreement is BS & spin.

Me too. Kaine is never gonna agree to that unless hes forced to by a Judge IMO

 

[BringKyronHome]

I completely disagree.

Kaine is being a protective father, and he SHOULD NOT negotiate with the woman who is most likely responsible for his son's disappearance and murder.

I'm really astonished that you see this as him "using" K****. IF anyone is using this child, it's her mother, who most likely thought that filing for visitation would soften her rather appalling image. EPIC FAIL.

I'm not at all saying that Kaine IS using baby-K...I'm saying that it could have been an intentional move to make it appear this way.

We are assuming that they are withdrawing because they are admitting defeat. And we are also saying that it's a surprise that she even asked for visitation when these very smart lawyers would have to have known there was no way that Terri could testify in any proceeding to actually aquire visitation.

Also...people have been up in arms that Terri is not asking for her daughter or concerned at all about her...if we are to believe these documents, apparently she's been asking all along...just not broadcasting it.

I'm simply wondering if there was no surprise, and no mistake...perhaps this is all working out exactly as they planned...

Perhaps their plan was to make Kaine look poorly...because certainly even convicted murderers are allowed visitation...so a suspected one should as well

and before I go on...I will say that I'm not 100% surwe I agree with this idea...I think it's a case by case thing. A mom convicted of killing an abusive father - I can see...but there are a whole bunch of crazies that I feel should have NO contact with their kids...but that's not how the court sees it. I'm NOT a childhood developmental expert by any means though...so I will simply revert to precidence...it must somehow be in the best interest of the child to maintain a relationship regardless of guilt or crime...if this is true, I can see how a small child, 18+mos old would have a MUCH greater need, and a MUCH lower understanding of the situation, so therefore have a MUCH greater impact from the severed tie. This is my opinion/understanding.

So, with that, I'm wondering IF perhaps there is a method to their madness. And if there is, whether it's to present to the court Kaine's apparent lack of interest in baby K's needs.

It's a hmmm, I wonder, it's not at all a.....I know it's for this reason, type of post.

Also...in terms of Kaine's comments about her drinking...it's clear from his statements that he was present. He stated that K was up late, and sleeping on the couch, no routine, etc. I'm sure the courts have even noticed this...why didn't he put K to bed?

It's one thing to say that TH was drinking heavily, etc. It's another to basically admit to standing by while K was in essence being neglected. Are you telling me that I'm the only one that has wondered this? What the heck was he doing? I'm wondering if he wasn't intoxicated as well...maybe they have this leverage...who knows.

Whatever the case...in the same way I'm fighting the urge to assume LE doesn't know what they are doing, I'm trying to fight that urge about the attornies...I bet it's all because we just don't know stuff. It is easy though to assume they are morons when we think we have all the facts...I'm just suggesting that we try assuming that they are worth the $$$, which suggests that they DO know what they are doing...take that perspective and maybe it could give us a perspective that would shed some light...it's just a thought....like all of you, I don't have ANY inside knowledge, just guessing.

 

[For The Kids]

I'm not at all saying that Kaine IS using baby-K...I'm saying that it could have been an intentional move to make it appear this way.

We are assuming that they are withdrawing because they are admitting defeat. And we are also saying that it's a surprise that she even asked for visitation when these very smart lawyers would have to have known there was no way that Terri could testify in any proceeding to actually aquire visitation.

Also...people have been up in arms that Terri is not asking for her daughter or concerned at all about her...if we are to believe these documents, apparently she's been asking all along...just not broadcasting it.

I'm simply wondering if there was no surprise, and no mistake...perhaps this is all working out exactly as they planned...

Perhaps their plan was to make Kaine look poorly...because certainly even convicted murderers are allowed visitation...so a suspected one should as well

and before I go on...I will say that I'm not 100% surwe I agree with this idea...I think it's a case by case thing. A mom convicted of killing an abusive father - I can see...but there are a whole bunch of crazies that I feel should have NO contact with their kids...but that's not how the court sees it. I'm NOT a childhood developmental expert by any means though...so I will simply revert to precidence...it must somehow be in the best interest of the child to maintain a relationship regardless of guilt or crime...if this is true, I can see how a small child, 18+mos old would have a MUCH greater need, and a MUCH lower understanding of the situation, so therefore have a MUCH greater impact from the severed tie. This is my opinion/understanding.

So, with that, I'm wondering IF perhaps there is a method to their madness. And if there is, whether it's to present to the court Kaine's apparent lack of interest in baby K's needs.

It's a hmmm, I wonder, it's not at all a.....I know it's for this reason, type of post.

Also...in terms of Kaine's comments about her drinking...it's clear from his statements that he was present. He stated that K was up late, and sleeping on the couch, no routine, etc. I'm sure the courts have even noticed this...why didn't he put K to bed?

It's one thing to say that TH was drinking heavily, etc. It's another to basically admit to standing by while K was in essence being neglected. Are you telling me that I'm the only one that has wondered this? What the heck was he doing? I'm wondering if he wasn't intoxicated as well...maybe they have this leverage...who knows.

Whatever the case...in the same way I'm fighting the urge to assume LE doesn't know what they are doing, I'm trying to fight that urge about the attornies...I bet it's all because we just don't know stuff. It is easy though to assume they are morons when we think we have all the facts...I'm just suggesting that we try assuming that they are worth the $$$, which suggests that they DO know what they are doing...take that perspective and maybe it could give us a perspective that would shed some light...it's just a thought....like all of you, I don't have ANY inside knowledge, just guessing.

To be honest..these are questions that Terris lawyers COULD have asked..but decided not to as she gave up the fight to see her baby. IF she is innocent there was no reason to give up the fight. If Kaine was negligent then Terri could have brought it up..but didnt.

What we do know however.. is that no children have gone missing..where Kaine has been the last person to see them alive. Therefore I would rather trust Kaine with my kids than i ever would Terri.


As for any reasons her lawyer may have had for doing this..im sorry but he made her look totally guilty and that she had something to hide by not wanting to go further with this.
JMO

 

[pufnstuf]

I'm not at all saying that Kaine IS using baby-K...I'm saying that it could have been an intentional move to make it appear this way.

In your previous post, you said: "It makes it look more as though he is using her versus protecting her...doesn't really look good in terms of custody."

We are assuming that they are withdrawing because they are admitting defeat. And we are also saying that it's a surprise that she even asked for visitation when these very smart lawyers would have to have known there was no way that Terri could testify in any proceeding to actually aquire visitation.

Yeah. Pretty much. That's what the record seems to indicate. Lawyers don't usually quit if they have even a snowball's chance of winning for their client, especially in a case like this, where winning would definitely give Terri a strategic upper hand in future proceedings.

Also...people have been up in arms that Terri is not asking for her daughter or concerned at all about her...if we are to believe these documents, apparently she's been asking all along...just not broadcasting it.

No indication of how exactly she's been asking. Anyone with even the least bit of knowledge of restraining order/custody cases knows that this would have to come before the court before Terri would be granted any visitation.

I'm simply wondering if there was no surprise, and no mistake...perhaps this is all working out exactly as they planned...

Perhaps their plan was to make Kaine look poorly...because certainly even convicted murderers are allowed visitation...so a suspected one should as well

If Bunch and Houze's plan was to make Kaine look poorly, it backfired.

and before I go on...I will say that I'm not 100% surwe I agree with this idea...I think it's a case by case thing. A mom convicted of killing an abusive father - I can see...but there are a whole bunch of crazies that I feel should have NO contact with their kids...but that's not how the court sees it. I'm NOT a childhood developmental expert by any means though...so I will simply revert to precidence...it must somehow be in the best interest of the child to maintain a relationship regardless of guilt or crime...if this is true, I can see how a small child, 18+mos old would have a MUCH greater need, and a MUCH lower understanding of the situation, so therefore have a MUCH greater impact from the severed tie. This is my opinion/understanding.

If you can cite precedence and statistics on parents who have killed siblings of the children to whom they won visitation rights, I'll listen. Until then, I'll defer to Oregon state law, which states that parental rights can be terminated in cases in which one parent is found to have harmed a child. Terri hasn't even been charged yet, nor has she been named a suspect, but I would assume that the judge in the civil case is familiar with Oregon statute regarding visitation rights in cases where a child is missing or presumed dead.

So, with that, I'm wondering IF perhaps there is a method to their madness. And if there is, whether it's to present to the court Kaine's apparent lack of interest in baby K's needs.

Huh? It appears to me that Kaine is giving it all he's got to fight for his daughter.

It's a hmmm, I wonder, it's not at all a.....I know it's for this reason, type of post.

Also...in terms of Kaine's comments about her drinking...it's clear from his statements that he was present. He stated that K was up late, and sleeping on the couch, no routine, etc. I'm sure the courts have even noticed this...why didn't he put K to bed?

It's one thing to say that TH was drinking heavily, etc. It's another to basically admit to standing by while K was in essence being neglected. Are you telling me that I'm the only one that has wondered this? What the heck was he doing? I'm wondering if he wasn't intoxicated as well...maybe they have this leverage...who knows.

So where are Terri's attorneys' accusations that Kaine was either negligent or a drunk? I've not seen any such accusations.

Whatever the case...in the same way I'm fighting the urge to assume LE doesn't know what they are doing, I'm trying to fight that urge about the attornies...I bet it's all because we just don't know stuff. It is easy though to assume they are morons when we think we have all the facts...I'm just suggesting that we try assuming that they are worth the $$$, which suggests that they DO know what they are doing...take that perspective and maybe it could give us a perspective that would shed some light...it's just a thought....like all of you, I don't have ANY inside knowledge, just guessing.

Exactly. We don't know stuff. So to assume that Kaine is a negligent alcoholic just because his wife is... or to assume that LE doesn't know what they are doing....No evidence to show either.

Sometimes a defeat in civil court is just a defeat, no matter how it's spun.

 

[BringKyronHome]

I'm am NOT saying that I think these things!

I'm saying that maybe it was a strategic move.

And yes, they have now made it public record that Kaine is not trying to give baby-K motherly contact...something that I'm sure most childhood experts would agree is essential (regardless of guilt)...PARTICULARLY since she is so young.

She cannot seperate these things.

And they don't have to make any sort of arguements...

It's already been granted or agreeed to, whatever the correct terms are...that Terri should not have to testify or whatever...the basis for the divorce being put off.

Everyone seems to agree, it's not in her best interest. No one expects it. No one is going to make her. Kaines' attornies may try, but her attornies will squelch it. It's not going to happen.

HOWEVER...they have been able to present information to the court that basically suggests that Kaine is being uncaring in terms of K's needs for her mom without testifying.

Also, in terms of Kaine's potential contribution to the neglect...I don't think that Terri's attornies need to say anything.

Frankly, I thin Kaine's attornies were kind of (unusual) in their wording...they basically said he witnessed this and didn't act as a parent. I'm betting Terri's attornies won't say a word...it's pretty much unnecessary.

But it does beg the question...sorry if I'm the only one to ask it OUT LOUD (sorta)...why the heck didn't he put the baby to bed at 7 or 8 or 9...why did he allow her to sleep next to a passed out drunk on the couch?

In terms of his responisbility as a husband...I have questions there too...but MOSTLY if he was noticing all this with the children, why didn't he intervein?

There's got to be a reason...

Again...just wondering if this is THEIR reasoning...

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

Here is the motion filed.

Item 6 is quite compelling.

http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/horman-motion.PDF

Just bouncing off your post. This isn't directed to you ladonna. I read the motions off your link. Thank you very much for the link!

IMO: It sounds to me like Bunch wants to make a bunch (irony huh) of comments to the public without having to have TH speak directly. These motions are being read by the public.

TH is a victem...TH is being so mistreated and abused...so on and so forth. He is trying to sway public opinion.

 

[gwenabob]

But it does beg the question...sorry if I'm the only one to ask it OUT LOUD (sorta)...why the heck didn't he put the baby to bed at 7 or 8 or 9...why did he allow her to sleep next to a passed out drunk on the couch?

In terms of his responisbility as a husband...I have questions there too...but MOSTLY if he was noticing all this with the children, why didn't he intervein?

There's got to be a reason...

Again...just wondering if this is THEIR reasoning...

bbm

Who says he didn't?? Maybe she was getting the baby up after she was in bed and taking her into the LR with her "to keep her company." Kaine said in his declaration that after Terri was intoxicated she would become difficult to deal with. Maybe it was a matter of balancing the baby's need for sleep and the baby's need for a calm, peaceful home where the parents aren't screaming and fighting.

I grew up with an alcoholic father. I know how it is. Without going into detail about my horrible childhood, I will say I totally get this whole situation. Kaine did what he thought was best for the short term, which is really all you can deal with when you have an active alcoholic in the picture. There is no doubt in my mind Kaine was working double time trying to work full time and keep things from falling apart at home every day.

Terri was a full time SAHM. To blame Kaine for Terri's inability to fulfill her duties as a mother and SAHM, is truly blaming the victim.

When a person is an alcoholic, they aren't the only sick person. The whole family becomes ill.

 

[stmarysmead]

I'm just going to say this one more time, and I'm not visiting again!

I'm am NOT saying that I think these things!

I'm saying that maybe it was a strategic move.

And yes, they have now made it public record that Kaine is not trying to give baby-K motherly contact...something that I'm sure most childhood experts would agree is essential (regardless of guilt)...PARTICULARLY since she is so young.

She cannot seperate these things.

And they don't have to make any sort of arguements...

It's already been granted or agreeed to, whatever the correct terms are...that Terri should not have to testify or whatever...the basis for the divorce being put off.

Everyone seems to agree, it's not in her best interest. No one expects it. No one is going to make her. Kaines' attornies may try, but her attornies will squelch it. It's not going to happen.

HOWEVER...they have been able to present information to the court that basically suggests that Kaine is being uncaring in terms of K's needs for her mom without testifying.

Also, in terms of Kaine's potential contribution to the neglect...I don't think that Terri's attornies need to say anything.

Frankly, I thin Kaine's attornies were kind of dumb in their wording...they basically said he witnessed this and didn't act as a parent. I'm betting Terri's attornies won't say a word...it's pretty much unnecessary.

But it does beg the question...sorry if I'm the only one to ask it OUT LOUD (sorta)...why the heck didn't he put the baby to bed at 7 or 8 or 9...why did he allow her to sleep next to a passed out drunk on the couch?

In terms of his responisbility as a husband...I have questions there too...but MOSTLY if he was noticing all this with the children, why didn't he intervein?

There's got to be a reason...

Again...just wondering if this is THEIR reasoning...

I'm just not understanding how these expensive, experienced lawyers would have planned this "strategic move." Basically they would have to assume that no one in the general public would think it might be the best parenting decision to NOT allow Baby K to be subjected to the woman she may have witnessed murdering her brother! That is a reckless assumption because many people DO NOT believe it is in Baby's best interest and applaud Kaine for standing firm. Would Terri's lawyers assume everyone agrees with Terri? Why?

And would Terri's lawyers gamble having those graphic sexual texts released because they thought Kaine denying visitation would be more shocking?

Really?

I just don't follow how that could be legal "strategy" of ANY kind. That would reek almost of legal malpractice to me..

 

[Billylee]

I see ZERO indication that her lawyers have quit. In fact I see quite the opposite right here:

Respondent does not, and will not, give up her right to seek legal custody and unfettered contact with K. Petitioner's efforts to withhold all parenting time is completely contrary to baby k's healthy development. However, under all of the circumstances, issues regarding parenting time will need to wait for another day, when additional facts can be obtained and presented."

I too, think that just perhaps, Terri's attorney's achieved their goal. Though not being a lawyer, I have no idea what that might be.

 

[gwenabob]

I wonder how "innocent" Kaine is on that front. His accusations DO beg the question...well What was wrong with him at the time that he couldnt' take care of baby K!

So you think Kaine should have been responsible for working a demanding, full time job plus all the childcare every night as well while his wife played all day and drank all night till she was blottoed?

I think the better question is why was Terri drinking every night and letting the baby play unsupervised while her husband was trying to sleep so he could get up for work in the morning?

 

[grandmaj]

Please do not personalize your posts and please follow TOS. Thanks. Tone it down a little please.

Thread open.