2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[germaine]

I get that...I'm just not sure how Terri's words refutting alcohol abuse and being an unfit parent(even the sexting) could be twisted and used regarding a CRIME when there is no crime alleged in the affidavit. Terri withdrew her motion after Kaine's affidavit...after already knowing that the potentially criminal allegations were uncontested facts for the purposes of the RO(she chose not to fight it - which I completely understand in the context of *incriminating oneself* and one's priorities) but the only *new* information that we had that caused the withdrawal of Terri's motion was Kaine's affidavit alleging NO CRIMINAL ACTIVITY...

We already knew that Terri wasn't planning to testify. We already knew that an *expert* was ready to testify *in general* that children should have both parents in their lives. We already knew that Terri's lawyers were not going to allow any type of evaluations of their client. Terri and her lawyers also knew that whether or not to allow visitation WITHOUT the above would be up to the judge and they, through their motion, were willing to accept a judge's ruling on that...until Kaine filed his affidavit. Again, an affidavit that alleges nothing criminal.

That just boggles my mind that there had to be something in that affidavit that scared Terri and her lawyers so bad that she would withdraw at that time.

Unless Terri and her lawyers had been blowing smoke the whole time and never really intended to get to court regarding visitation, the whole thing being a weak attempt at gaining some sympathy in the eyes of the public.

JMO

ETA: Terri had already spoken with police...this was a civil hearing about whether or not she should get visitation with her child. She was aware that the judge had the discretion to order as he wished should she come to court requesting visitation. Kaine's affidavit shouldn't have had that much of a bearing on their decision to motion for the modification. JMO

I am completely stumped by the withdrawal for exactly the reasons you state. Imo, NONE of the possible reasons makes any sense at all. Yesterday, I was about THIS close to e-mailing Houze and asking him that I'd love to hear his strategy on that once the case is over lol. Well, maybe not THIS close, but it did cross my mind. I am stumped. I guess that's why I'm not a high-powered criminal defense attorney.

 

[BeanE]

Yes, thanks BeanE...I'll be watching the thread to see what our lawyers come up with...I'm pretty sure that LE has discretion on whom they can provide information to within a victim's family during an active investigation.

Noodling on this. Do you recall if LE gave the texts to Kaine or to Rackner? I can't remember if the docs say LE gave them to Rackner or to Kaine. And I have no idea if that would make a difference lol.

 

[germaine]

Personally, I don't think it was anything in the affidavit that caused the cancellation. Reading the withdrawal document, it looks to me that the turning point was when Rackner told Bunch/Houze, after the hearing, that she intended to schedule multiple depos and 4 days of hearings.

That would be sure to present testimony that Terri would need to refute, or it would stand, but Terri can't testify.

I believe it was on the 29th that Rackner went ahead and scheduled those 4 days of hearings. There's a post by gwenabob. She had been checking for scheduled hearings, and I believe when she checked on the 29th it was when she found that the 4 days had been scheduled by Rackner.

Rackner doesn't schedule hearings, only the court does. She probably provided an estimate of the time required, as would Houze/Bunch -- or the court might have just estimated on its own.

But you're right, it may be that Houze saw the writing on the wall when that schedule came down. I know I did, 'cause I posted as much under Gwen's post. And that would also amount to something "new" that Houze/bunch didn't know for sure when the motion for visitation was filed. He already knew that Rackner was going to request extensive discovery, imo.

 

[debs]

And heres the thing. Kaine does NOT have to give into Terri and work towards a solution with her, because he has all the upper cards here. He showed her how serious he is about her not being with that baby by submitting alot of dirt he has on Terri to the courts, her Lawyers knew they couldn't win, thats why they withdrew, because if Kaine has a letter from a DA backing him up on the MFH, Terri is toast, no one is going to hand her a child based on just that.

As long as there is a restraining order in place, Kaine does not have to try to work anything out with someone who more than likely did something to his son and is lying about it and refuses to cooperate at times. Setting aside the M4H and texts, that is enough for a Judge to not let her be around children.

jmo

You're right. Kaine doesn't have to give Terri anything. By the same token, Terri doesn't have to answer anything Kaine wants her to answer. She doesn't have to be forced into losing her Fifth Amendment Rights to give the same answers she's already freely given him and LE. But somehow people believe it is fair for him to make accusations. Her non-response to these accusations is then deemed proof of her criminality rather than what it truly is: Her exercising her rights to not have to testify against herself EVEN IF WHAT SHE SAYS IS THAT SHE HAS NO OTHER INFORMATION THAN WHAT SHE HAS ALREADY GIVEN. The assumption on Kaine's part that she's lying is just that: an assumption. And this is a civil hearing, and he's searching for information for the DA to incriminate Terri with. She can't speak without it being used against her, and I don't know why people keep insisting that if she's innocent she has nothing to worry about. She's said nothing yet publicly and she's already been charged, tried, convicted, and in one thread, hanged for her crimes. That is not how the justice system works. She is being forced to keep her mouth shut or give evidence against herself. It's just that simple.

But Kaine has an unfair advantage. He has now asserted in a civil court that LE has given him information pertaining to a criminal case about his wife that leads him to believe she's committed a crime against himself and his son. LE will not give that information to Terri because it is an active investigation. So through Kaine, we learn Terri is the "de facto" suspect, even though her lawyers put a name to what it is Terri is being subjected to by LE.

The fact of the matter is, if LE isn't going to bring the ball to the game, then Kaine should not be allowed to use that ball to throw at Terri.

But hey. It's just my opinion, and I'm glad she doesn't play their game. Her daughter needs her out of jail. Kaine's lack of cooperation for parenting time for his daughter with her mother will eventually lead to K having a guardian ad litem assigned because Kaine is not looking out for her best interests. Terri hasn't been charged, and no evidence has been shown which would prove she's a bad mother. Just accusations from a disgruntled husband with an axe to grind. IMO.

 

[Trt]

BeanE, I know that Kaine stated that he and his attorneys as well as Terri and her attorneys were given the texts. I'm guessing that once attorneys enter the picture, LE deals with them more than the client(especially in Terri's case). But yes, can't wait to see what the lawyers have to say about recipricol discovery in such a unique situation.

 

[BeanE]

BeanE, I know that Kaine stated that he and his attorneys as well as Terri and her attorneys were given the texts. I'm guessing that once attorneys enter the picture, LE deals with them more than the client(especially in Terri's case). But yes, can't wait to see what the lawyers have to say about recipricol discovery in such a unique situation.

Okay I just browsed through the docs, and it looks like LE gave Kaine the texts and "other information". The only thing I saw from LE to Rackner was verbally that the personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures Terri <-> LS resembled those Terri <-> Cook.

But, as you point out, the attorney represents the client, and frequently when they refer to the client, they actually mean themselves as representative, so... I dunno lol.

I'm wondering if the laws of discovery even cover this kind of stuff. I just don't know. I'm thinking not, since Bunch/Houze didn't whine about discovery laws not being followed, ya know? But they did make noise about the poly laws.

 

[BeanE]

Rackner doesn't schedule hearings, only the court does. She probably provided an estimate of the time required, as would Houze/Bunch -- or the court might have just estimated on its own.

But you're right, it may be that Houze saw the writing on the wall when that schedule came down. I know I did, 'cause I posted as much under Gwen's post. And that would also amount to something "new" that Houze/bunch didn't know for sure when the motion for visitation was filed. He already knew that Rackner was going to request extensive discovery, imo.

That's what I'm thinking too. In the doc, Bunch/Houze says that Rackner told them after the hearing she was going to do the multi depos, get the medical records, have 4 days of hearings, but maybe they thought she was blowing smoke. Then when the hearings were scheduled, they saw she was serious. Also, it was after the hearing that the state told Bunch/Houze that they weren't going to cough up any discovery.

Those things seem to be their emphasis (to me) rather than Kaine's affidavit.

 

[debs]

I think she has a DUI from a few years back when she was pulled over with her son in her car, while intoxicated, so she has a history with alcohol abuse. And Kaine lived with Terri, none of us did, so I will take his word she was abusing alcohol, I haven't heard Terri refute it once, and maybe she couldnt refute it because she was going to blame the text messages on being tipsy, because thats pretty much the only good defense for those, but anyways, Desiree deserved to know that Terri was drinking and Kaine did not inform her, and I am sure he will regret his actions for the rest of his life, but he is not the first man to enable an addict, IF Terri is one, which I believe she probably is. It would explain her behavior alot. jmo

But if it's true, then it surely goes to Kaine's judgment as a parent. If true, he endangered his children. If true.

 

[debs]

Terri's testimony, refutation of accusations, etc.......that would be considered HER discovery, no? Kaine wants to know what she's got without reciprocal discovery.

 

[Chablis]

But if it's true, then it surely goes to Kaine's judgment as a parent. If true, he endangered his children. If true.

I guess it is. But once again, lots of parents drink and take meds and are under the influence and have their children. If Terri was drinking at night, I really dont care as long as Kaine was in the house, I mean are we to believe Kaines office was secluded and he couldnt hear and know what was going on? Nothing ever happened to his child on his watch, we dont know if Terri was drinking all day, or if she even was drinking, I haven't heard her deny it though.

But anyways, I mentioned he would not be the first person to enable someone with a problem. I dont think anyone marries someone knowing its possible they may flip off the handle and make someone disappear. There is nothing that Kaine has ever done that makes him deserve the horror of the unknown of having a missing child. It does not matter if he was the worlds biggest loser on earth, punishment via his child is not the answer. Kaine being a jerk, if he even is, is not a good enough reason for a grown adult woman to sit there and not answer questions about his child when directly asked.

Kaine has to do everything he can now to protect his daughter, who can fault him for that, is he supposed to just take another chance shes not really crazy and have the child be another way for her to hurt him?

I think not.

jmo

 

[Trt]

Terri's testimony, refutation of accusations, etc.......that would be considered HER discovery, no? Kaine wants to know what she's got without reciprocal discovery.

Kaine was the only one that was willing to provide testimony and refutation of accusations(hence the sworn affidavit). But I don't think that would equal discovery...Discovery would be the depos, evaluations, etc. done before any type of hearing on the matter at hand(which again, Terri and her lawyers preemptively stated that they would not be doing or subjecting their client to).

 

[germaine]

But if it's true, then it surely goes to Kaine's judgment as a parent. If true, he endangered his children. If true.

And what did TH do? Poor thing was just passed out drunk on the couch while KH was endangering the children.

 

[germaine]

Kaine was the only one that was willing to provide testimony and refutation of accusations(hence the sworn affidavit). But I don't think that would equal discovery...Discovery would be the depos, evaluations, etc. done before any type of hearing on the matter at hand(which again, Terri and her lawyers preemptively stated that they would not be doing or subjecting their client to).

Right, and KH and his lawyer never suggested that he wouldn't undergo an eval or be deposed, etc.

 

[debs]

Right, and KH and his lawyer never suggested that he wouldn't undergo an eval or be deposed, etc.

So Terri can ask for depositions from Kaine's physicians and any psych evals she deems necessary to evaluate whether Kaine is fit to parent their daughter? That should be interesting!

 

[mmmagique]

You're right. Kaine doesn't have to give Terri anything. By the same token, Terri doesn't have to answer anything Kaine wants her to answer. She doesn't have to be forced into losing her Fifth Amendment Rights to give the same answers she's already freely given him and LE. But somehow people believe it is fair for him to make accusations. Her non-response to these accusations is then deemed proof of her criminality rather than what it truly is: Her exercising her rights to not have to testify against herself EVEN IF WHAT SHE SAYS IS THAT SHE HAS NO OTHER INFORMATION THAN WHAT SHE HAS ALREADY GIVEN. The assumption on Kaine's part that she's lying is just that: an assumption. And this is a civil hearing, and he's searching for information for the DA to incriminate Terri with. She can't speak without it being used against her, and I don't know why people keep insisting that if she's innocent she has nothing to worry about. She's said nothing yet publicly and she's already been charged, tried, convicted, and in one thread, hanged for her crimes. That is not how the justice system works. She is being forced to keep her mouth shut or give evidence against herself. It's just that simple.

But Kaine has an unfair advantage. He has now asserted in a civil court that LE has given him information pertaining to a criminal case about his wife that leads him to believe she's committed a crime against himself and his son. LE will not give that information to Terri because it is an active investigation. So through Kaine, we learn Terri is the "de facto" suspect, even though her lawyers put a name to what it is Terri is being subjected to by LE.

The fact of the matter is, if LE isn't going to bring the ball to the game, then Kaine should not be allowed to use that ball to throw at Terri.

But hey. It's just my opinion, and I'm glad she doesn't play their game. Her daughter needs her out of jail. Kaine's lack of cooperation for parenting time for his daughter with her mother will eventually lead to K having a guardian ad litem assigned because Kaine is not looking out for her best interests. Terri hasn't been charged, and no evidence has been shown which would prove she's a bad mother. Just accusations from a disgruntled husband with an axe to grind. IMO.

So, if LE has proof (or even a high probability) that a person has been trying to hire someone to murder their spouse, AND that person is the number one suspect in disappearing (probably murdering) their stepson, LE should not let the spouse who was to be whacked know?

How long do they just sit back and let it play out? Until the spouse is dead as well? I believe they have a moral and ethical (if not legal) obligation to share that information with the potential "late spouse". Sooner rather than later.

 

[debs]

And what did TH do? Poor thing was just passed out drunk on the couch while KH was endangering the children.

Being accused of being a drunk doesn't make one a drunk. That's why I said "IF TRUE"......IMO.

 

[Chablis]

So Terri can ask for depositions from Kaine's physicians and any psych evals she deems necessary to evaluate whether Kaine is fit to parent their daughter? That should be interesting!

Yes, she can ask but she wont dare because then she will be requested to take one, and I think she has made it clear that she wont take one, so it will never happen. Her Lawyers say she will not be tested herself, so why do you think her lawyers would even ask Kaine to do that? Wouldnt that kinda be shooting yourself in the foot?

 

[debs]

Hmm, looks like two people will have holes in their feet.

 

[germaine]

Being accused of being a drunk doesn't make one a drunk. That's why I said "IF TRUE"......IMO.

The "if true" was intended to be implicit in my post, as well. If true, what did TH do? Poor thing was just passed out on the couch while KH was endangering the children.

 

[Chablis]

The "if true" was intended to be implicit in my post, as well. If true, what did TH do? Poor thing was just passed out on the couch while KH was endangering the children.

IF she was drinking, what was he supposed to do, wake her up and provoke her in front of the child? I would imagine it probably had happened, and if anyone was smart they would know not to again and you cant win, and really, the kids didn't need to see that, and who knows if they did?