2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[wondering1]

The no firearms clause was routine in such cases, a court clerk said.


http://www.kgw.com/news/Second-grade-student-missing-from-Skyline-Elementary-95670454.html

aha...but define "such cases" -- she could mean cases where the petitioner has been threatened with a firearm, or cases where the other person is known to have access to a firearm. I'm in the camp where I think everybody involved in this case is choosing their words very carefully. And not to beat a dead horse (but I'll do it anyway :innocent I have NEVER seen that provision inserted as a matter of course and, as you can see from the link above, specific information from the Petitioner is required to invoke it. Maybe things are different in Oregon :::shrug:::

btw, I don't want to come across as arguing with you. I'm not. It could very well be routine and I could be totally wrong -- as I've proven about 10 times here already :blushing: But that is my strong feeling on this particular issue.

jmo

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Can someone with RO experience shed some light here? Is it typical to put in a statement like this about a certain kind of weapon? Why not knives? Perhaps too common in the kitchen? Why a gun? Is it because she is known to have one and/or has a license to carry a gun in Oregon? Do they need some special detail in the RO to have come to such a conclusion - that she is banned from guns?

I'd assume it's pretty routine when an order is being granted against someone based on allegations of violence or credible threat of violence (including allegations such as that she said "I'll kill myself if . . .").

As for why just guns and not knives, that's because there is a computerized background check system for gun purchases (NICS), and including this provision in the order would automatically put her on the no-sale list for as long as the order is in effect. There is no such system for knives (nor would there be any point to such a system, since anyone can make a very serviceable knife for a violent act by breaking a glass bottle or vase to get a sharp piece, and wrapping duct tape around one end for a handle).

 

[wondering1]

Oh, no ... not meant for you, wondering1, but it looked like the guest on JVM was pointing to the poly as potentially being shared with Kaine and helping his decision to move out. I was just wondering if there was incriminating info in there, could he then use that as a part of the RO. I doubt it, but just wondering.

thx...I kinda doubt if they could use it, too. Oh how I would LOVE to have been a fly on the wall for that poly!

 

[Kimster]

JVM thread: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5346829#post5346829"]Jvm: 06.29.2010 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[CaringCitizen]

I hope Kaine didn't do all this based on a polygraph. Technology can be wrong: IIRC, the father in the Fox case not only failed a polygraph, but confessed to the crime! And he was innocent. IMHO, I would need more proof than a failed poly to do what he's done.

I agree. My post was not about thinking the polygraph was sufficient for all of this. My post was a response to someone else's post and the point was about which Saturday it was.

But yes, we both agree it by itself was in no way the only thing (even if it was shared) that Kaine and LE discussed this past weekend. I can think of waaaay more damning conversations than that.

 

[Cheewawa007]

I thought the FBI talking head said their protocol (the FBI) would not share the the results of a lie detector test with the family (not in this case, but in general).... I also understood the correspondent outside of the school to say he has been told there was abuse in the home (Kyron & SM) and they filed the RO to protect the daughter.

 

[crimejunkie]

Can someone with RO experience shed some light here? Is it typical to put in a statement like this about a certain kind of weapon? Why not knives? Perhaps too common in the kitchen? Why a gun? Is it because she is known to have one and/or has a license to carry a gun in Oregon? Do they need some special detail in the RO to have come to such a conclusion - that she is banned from guns? QUOTE]

I'd assume it's pretty routine when an order is being granted against someone based on allegations of violence or credible threat of violence (including allegations such as that she said "I'll kill myself if . . .").

As for why just guns and not knives, that's because there is a computerized background check system for gun purchases (NICS), and including this provision in the order would automatically put her on the no-sale list for as long as the order is in effect. There is no such system for knives (nor would there be any point to such a system, since anyone can make a very serviceable knife for a violent act by breaking a glass bottle or vase to get a sharp piece, and wrapping duct tape around one end for a handle).

The firearm statement/clause is standard in my state. It's in every protective order/restraining order whether or not weapons were a part of the original complaint.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

No parenting time is huge. Period. That doesn't happen with a Mom and a baby without a very good reason. [snipped] I think it's much more difficult to get a restraining order forbidding contact between an 18 month old baby and her mother.

I'm not clear on the exact meaning of "no parenting time". Seems to me it doesn't necessarily mean no contact at all, but could also mean just no *unsupervised* contact (i.e. no normal parental rights, in which the parent gets a certain amount of time to have the child and be responsible for the child in a normal parent role).

*IF* this particular order actually stipulates no contact whatsoever, i.e. not even a weekly one-hour supervised visit with a police officer and state-appointed social worker present, that would indeed be huge. I would think it would mean that LE is representing to the court that it's quite confident that Terri will not be in a position to have any future parental role in the baby's life AND/OR that Terri is so dangerously unstable that the baby wouldn't be safe in her presence even with a supervising LEO and social worker.

 

[captivagrl]

Yes, yes, I know it is a blank FAPA. Just trying to invite the "blank FAPA" conversation, so to alleviate rumors of gun possession/use and where that would naturally be headed.

Also, a RO can be ordered just over an affair. (Not saying there is an affair.) Really simple issues when children are involved. Just the fact that Kyron is missing could get one issued.

So, if anyone has a "blank FAPA" or link to one from Oregon, please post it or explain it, so we can all see.

TIA! :blowkiss:

If someone was having an affair with a registered sex offender and that offender was allowed inside the home, there would be reason for the spouse to file for divorce and protect the children. The judge may give no visitation until it can be proven that the child/ren are protected (with supervised visits, for example). The RO usually means that there is a real physical threat, I think, not just an affair?

 

[CaringCitizen]

I know that if the person has a known firearm, or access to one, and the weapon has been threatened or used in the past, the order can call for no access to firearms and can also call for the police to impound a known weapon. What I don't know is whether it's also common in a situation where there is no known current known access to a firearm, but reason to believe that the person might obtain one and use it. Just speculating, but I wonder if part of the reason to include this in the order is so that if the person were to attempt to purchase a weapon, the RO would come up and the sale would be prohibited.

jmoo...there probably has to be a dern good reason to specifically restrict access to firearms where a violent crime (including aggravated assualt/threaten with a deadly weapon) has not already been committed against the person obtaining the order.

So sad, isn't it? Thanks for the info, wondering1.

not just that but such a young baby and a stay at home mom - this is terrible chaos and stress for the child...one is left with the inevitable conclusion that it would be much more terrible to NOT order this....not feeling hopeful about kyron at all anymore, it is devastating.

Agree, going to these lengths means the worst. I have said in some previous posts before how terrible this is for baby K. She loves and misses her mommy - no doubt about it.

I am sure she is asking over and over and over about where mommy is. I cannot imagine the pain inside of Kaine as he's having to figure out what to tell this precious wee one. And how hard it is to deal with the baby's emotions around longing for and missing her normal life and brothers, and mommy. Even if she can't put it all into words, she is most definitely aware of the changes.

Oh my goodness - the whole thing is just tragic beyond words.

 

[wondering1]

Found this regarding the basis of firearm restrictions in RO's. Could explain why other weapons aren't included, and also maybe why it's done routinely (apparently everywhere but here!) since it gives rise to a federal charge. I wonder if that potential was something they considered in this case.

Federal Firearms Regulations

As of 1996, federal laws took effect regarding ownership/ possession of firearms or ammunition by persons convicted of domestic assault or are currently under the provisions of an order for protection/restraining order. Violations resulting from this may be federally charged. There is no "grandfather clause" regarding these new laws. Past convictions for domestic assault apply and can limit that person's ability to own or possess a firearm.

eta the link http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/crime-reporting/domesticabuse.asp#P25_6214

 

[PickieChickie]

The fact Kaine Horman filed for SOLE custody of Terrie's and his 18 month old daughter is HUGE​

In my opinion, most parents who file for sole custody of a child are not viewed in a good light by the judge because that is being just plain selfish and unreasonable in most cases and is generally not in the best interest of the child.

In my opinion, parents who file for sole custody are more times than not attempting to punish the other parent for whatever reason, often going as far as submitting outrageous declarations full of lies, and the court knows this. (This is why the court assigns investigators to evaluate the parenting skills, relationships between both parents and the child, etc. and orders parents to attend mediation.)

Because Kaine has an attorney who knows how bad it can make a client look to file for sole custody unless there is significant evidence this is in the best interest of the child, the fact Kaine's attorney filed for sole custody is huge.

Child Custody Laws​

In the United States, responsibilities for a child's care and decision-making related to that care are governed by federal and state laws. In general, custody laws and custody decisions favor continued and frequent contact between the child and both parents, as well as an ongoing role for both parents in the raising of their children. However, custody decisions are strongly influenced by the circumstances of each individual case, the welfare of the involved child or children, and the perceived effect of each parent on the child.

In almost all custody cases, courts consider a value called the "best interests of the child" as the highest priority when rendering a custody decision. The best interests of a child are determined by considering a number of factors, including the following:

* child's age, sex, and mental/physical health
* mental and physical health of both parents
* child's established lifestyle (home, school, church, etc.)
* lifestyle of both parents, including any history of child abuse
* emotional bonds between each parent and child, and the ability of each parent to provide emotional support and guidance
* ability of each parent to provide physical necessities (e.g., food, home, clothing, healthcare)
* impact of change on the child
* ability and willingness of each parent to encourage a healthy relationship and communication between the child and the other parent
* child's preferences

Child Custody Laws source: http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...t+ongoing+visitation&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us​

 

[SuziQ]

Yes, yes, I know it is a blank FAPA. Just trying to invite the "blank FAPA" conversation, so to alleviate rumors of gun possession/use and where that would naturally be headed.

Also, a RO can be ordered just over an affair. (Not saying there is an affair.) Really simple issues when children are involved. Just the fact that Kyron is missing could get one issued.

So, if anyone has a "blank FAPA" or link to one from Oregon, please post it or explain it, so we can all see.

TIA! :blowkiss:

A FAPA is not the kind of RO you would file for an affair. Also, the judge sealed the RO to protect the investigation. IMO, this is not about a simple affair or anything similar.

 

[jessigirl]

Please forgive me and disregard(no need for anyone to go off if this has already been addressed, just scroll on by).. I've been working all day and haven't had a moment to check in since about 4a.m. this morning, so quite a few things have transpired since then... So I'm going to assume someone has already addressed my observation, so TIA to anyone who has any further known info about this... I was just reading thru the Dissolution of Marriage PDF and saw that it clearly states that Kaine has been residing elsewhere(somewhere other than shared marital residence)since June 26, 2010. So, that is since Saturday(1 day after he&DY's nationwide interviews).. Am wanting to know if anyone knows anything further about this and IMO this thoroughly negates that TMH was "blindsided" with all of this(as has been stated by many) that she truly did think all was fine with the marriage when questioned by reporter yesterday prior to her being served. This completely disproves that fact, since Kaine moved out as of Saturday.. So, she is either highly delusional or just outright lying(as if the public would not soon find out, yea right)... AS I said I'm sure this has already been discussed so if someone could just kindly direct me to where I might find any further info about this and what are any of y'all's thoughts as to what transpired between Friday, a.m.(interviews of he&DY and were still united[as in all4parents]) of the 25th and Saturday the 26th when Kaine and their shared daughter left the residence and moved elsewhere?... TIA to anyone that takes a min to help me catch up with all of todays latest info...

 

[PickieChickie]

If someone was having an affair with a registered sex offender and that offender was allowed inside the home, there would be reason for the spouse to file for divorce and protect the children. The judge may give no visitation until it can be proven that the child/ren are protected (with supervised visits, for example). The RO usually means that there is a real physical threat, I think, not just an affair?

The first thing a parent would do would be to take the children to the police or sheriff's department and have them tell an officer that Mr. Child Molester has been coming to their home and spending time there.

At that point, the deputy or officer would research Mr. Child Molester's terms of release, probation, parole, etc. to see if he is violating a court order to not be around minors. If it is discovered he is in violation, a report would be made and turned into the county district attorney for prosecution.

If, after going to law enforcement who has taken the appropriate steps to remedy the matter, including talking with the parent who is allowing the contact, the parent still allows Mr. Child Molester to be in the presence of the children, law enforcement and children's services should be contacted and a modification of child custody filed in which the parent can ask that the other paren't visitation/custody be terminated until the case can be heard in the court.

The parent can ask in the modification for visitation and child custody that the court order the other parent to allow absolutely no contact between Mr. Child Molester and the minor children.

Just being in the presence of a child molester who has done nothing violent or sexually inappropriate to the couple's children is not reason to file for a domestic violence restraining order to keep the offending parent away from the child.

This is just all my opinion.

 

[BeanE]

Terri may talk to the media

PORTLAND, Ore. – Terri Moulton Horman was “blindsided” by the divorce papers, according to a close friend.

snip

The friend said Terri may consider talking publicly and airing her side of the story.

“She’s been doing what Kaine said all along and he’s been telling her to stay quiet. The public will benefit from hearing what she has to say.”

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/loca...talk-to-the-media/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx

 

[captivagrl]

Please forgive me and disregard(no need for anyone to go off if this has already been addressed, just scroll on by).. I've been working all day and haven't had a moment to check in since about 4a.m. this morning, so quite a few things have transpired since then... So I'm going to assume someone has already addressed my observation, so TIA to anyone who has any further known info about this... I was just reading thru the Dissolution of Marriage PDF and saw that it clearly states that Kaine has been residing elsewhere(somewhere other than shared marital residence)since June 26, 2010. So, that is since Saturday(1 day after he&DY's nationwide interviews).. Am wanting to know if anyone knows anything further about this and IMO this thoroughly negates that TMH was "blindsided" with all of this(as has been stated by many) that she truly did think all was fine with the marriage when questioned by reporter yesterday prior to her being served. This completely disproves that fact, since Kaine moved out as of Saturday.. So, she is either highly delusional or just outright lying(as if the public would not soon find out, yea right)... AS I said I'm sure this has already been discussed so if someone could just kindly direct me to where I might find any further info about this and what are any of y'all's thoughts as to what transpired between Friday, a.m.(interviews of he&DY and were still united[as in all4parents]) of the 25th and Saturday the 26th when Kaine and their shared daughter left the residence and moved elsewhere?... TIA to anyone that takes a min to help me catch up with all of todays latest info...

I'm guessing she failed the second poly and Kaine was informed. They argued and she physically threatened him (and possibly the baby). He moved out and spoke to an attorney Monday.

 

[PickieChickie]

Please forgive me and disregard(no need for anyone to go off if this has already been addressed, just scroll on by).. I've been working all day and haven't had a moment to check in since about 4a.m. this morning, so quite a few things have transpired since then... So I'm going to assume someone has already addressed my observation, so TIA to anyone who has any further known info about this... I was just reading thru the Dissolution of Marriage PDF and saw that it clearly states that Kaine has been residing elsewhere(somewhere other than shared marital residence)since June 26, 2010. So, that is since Saturday(1 day after he&DY's nationwide interviews).. Am wanting to know if anyone knows anything further about this and IMO this thoroughly negates that TMH was "blindsided" with all of this(as has been stated by many) that she truly did think all was fine with the marriage when questioned by reporter yesterday prior to her being served. This completely disproves that fact, since Kaine moved out as of Saturday.. So, she is either highly delusional or just outright lying(as if the public would not soon find out, yea right)... AS I said I'm sure this has already been discussed so if someone could just kindly direct me to where I might find any further info about this and what are any of y'all's thoughts as to what transpired between Friday, a.m.(interviews of he&DY and were still united[as in all4parents]) of the 25th and Saturday the 26th when Kaine and their shared daughter left the residence and moved elsewhere?... TIA to anyone that takes a min to help me catch up with all of todays latest info...

One way to quickly find posts about moved, staying or living would be to click on "Edit" on your browser, click on "Find" then type moved, staying or what ever word you think will help you find where that has been discussed.

 

[captivagrl]

The first thing a parent would do would be to take the children to the police or sheriff's department and have them tell an officer that Mr. Child Molester has been coming to their home and spending time there.

At that point, the deputy or officer would research Mr. Child Molester's terms of release, probation, parole, etc. to see if he is violating a court order.

The problem might be nipped in the bud right then and there as Mr. Child Molester might be found in violation of terms of release, probation or parole and a case filed against him.

If, after going to law enforcement who has taken the appropriate steps to remedy the matter, including talking with the parent who is allowing the contact, the parent still allows Mr. Child Molester to be in the presence of the children, law enforcement and children's services should be contacted and a modification of child custody filed in which the parent can ask that the other paren't visitation/custody be terminated until the case can be heard in the court.

The parent can ask in the modification for visitation and child custody that the court order the other parent to allow absolutely no contact between Mr. Child Molester and the minor children.

Just being in the presence of a child molester who has done nothing violent or sexually inappropriate is not reason to file for a domestic violence restraining order to keep the offending parent away from the child.

This is just all my opinion.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm just speculating that with a missing child investigation Dad may have just been informed of inappropriate actions or really poor judgment. That may be reason to divorce. I think you have to feel that you and your child are in real physical harm to be granted a RO.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I was just reading thru the Dissolution of Marriage PDF and saw that it clearly states that Kaine has been residing elsewhere(somewhere other than shared marital residence)since June 26, 2010. So, that is since Saturday(1 day after he&DY's nationwide interviews).. Am wanting to know if anyone knows anything further about this and IMO this thoroughly negates that TMH was "blindsided" with all of this(as has been stated by many) that she truly did think all was fine with the marriage when questioned by reporter yesterday prior to her being served. This completely disproves that fact, since Kaine moved out as of Saturday.. So, she is either highly delusional or just outright lying(as if the public would not soon find out, yea right)...

SBM

Maybe she's totally delusional.

Or maybe she's lying.

Or maybe she really was blindsided. I don't think there's enough evidence to say which way it went.

Someone else posted how her husband told her that he was going to take their baby for a day, just to give her some alone time. He called that night to say the baby had fallen asleep and he didn't want to wake her up to bring her home, see ya tomorrow.

The next day, he called to say that he and the baby were several states away and the poster would never see the child again.

She said she was completely blindsided.

I think that could be a reasonable scenario. It's been a stressful time and KH may have said "I've gotta run over to the sheriff's office again, I'll take the baby. They love her and it will give you some time to rest." And then put her off with fibs until the big reveal.