2010.07.07 - Ann Rule weighs in

[AvalonBlue]

Been a long time since I read the book about Dianne Downs and did not realize it was in Oregon...........that case haunted me and still does to this day. She was something else.:banghead:

I re-read Small Sacrifices last winter and have thought so much about how Dianne Downs' demeanor, behavior, focus on herself, etc. remind me of TH's body language and strained grief reaction in the pressers.

Also, as many on WS have pointed out (myself included) most of what we have heard from TH (through others speaking for her) has been about herself -- and not about Kyron. I found it interesting to hear KH and DY mention in yesterday's interview TH's focus on herself as well.

 

[AvalonBlue]

(Respectfully snipped)

What bothers me a lot is that the substitute teacher told a child who notice Kyron missing to "calm down, he just may be in the bathroom" and then she herself (substitute) left the class. AND NOBODY CALLED HOME AFTER THE ATTENDENCE. that is insane.
This has been bothering me from the start. I still want to know where did the teacher go, and has she been interviewed.
I still will not point at Kyron's step mom just because there is a lot that points to her.
Ann Rue did NOT lend a new perspective at all. And I am not jumping on any ban wagon.

Hi, perhaps I can help clarify the situation above that has still been bothering you. I'm pulling my information from the WS timeline and further clarifications from other posters and MSM.

On June 4th, the day of the Science Fair, there was not a substitute teacher. Kyron's regular teacher was there. The other adult in the room was a mom volunteer who was helping to get the kids organized to tour the other classroom exhibits.

From BeanE (Post #4 in Timeline):

The teacher didn't leave the room. The parent chaperone left the room with her group of four kids versus five because she couldn't find Kyron.

There had been confusion (possibly planned by TH) about a doctor's appointment, so there was speculation that the teacher might have momentarily forgotten that K was going to the doctor -- although TH claimed that she had told the teacher the appointment was for the NEXT Friday and that the teacher must not have understood because (Terri's words, quoted by her friend) "This is her first year and she's hard of hearing in one ear." (It was later reported that it was NOT the teacher's first year and the "miss communication" about the doctor's appointment has not been cleared up for the public because it seems pertinent to the case.

I'm sure the teacher has been interviewed by all LE involved and has been asked not to compromise the case by talking about it.

I certainly agree with you that it would have been wonderful if Skyline Elementary would have had a policy in place to call parents to confirm a child's absence. They DO seem to have that policy now. It has been theorized that TH used the doctor's appointment confusion and her knowledge that the school did NOT call about absences to buy additional time before K's being missing was discovered. It has also been documented that TH sent an email to K's teacher (about the time she was posting the Science Fair pic on FB) to ask when the science projects needed to be picked up from school. Some have theorized that this was a "check in" designed to ascertain if anyone had noticed K was missing.

I hope this clears some things up. There was a lot of talk that first few days from other teachers, school kids, etc. and then it seemed LE asked them not to talk -- so we don't know right now how much was rumor, truth, over active imagination, just plain wrong or confused information, etc. was going on. I feel certain that pertinent facts will be made clear as the investigation proceeds.

 

[songline]

(Respectfully snipped)



Hi, perhaps I can help clarify the situation above that has still been bothering you. I'm pulling my information from the WS timeline and further clarifications from other posters and MSM.

On June 4th, the day of the Science Fair, there was not a substitute teacher. Kyron's regular teacher was there. The other adult in the room was a mom volunteer who was helping to get the kids organized to tour the other classroom exhibits.

From BeanE (Post #4 in Timeline):

The teacher didn't leave the room. The parent chaperone left the room with her group of four kids versus five because she couldn't find Kyron.

There had been confusion (possibly planned by TH) about a doctor's appointment, so there was speculation that the teacher might have momentarily forgotten that K was going to the doctor -- although TH claimed that she had told the teacher the appointment was for the NEXT Friday and that the teacher must not have understood because (Terri's words, quoted by her friend) "This is her first year and she's hard of hearing in one ear." (It was later reported that it was NOT the teacher's first year and the "miss communication" about the doctor's appointment has not been cleared up for the public because it seems pertinent to the case.

I'm sure the teacher has been interviewed by all LE involved and has been asked not to compromise the case by talking about it.

I certainly agree with you that it would have been wonderful if Skyline Elementary would have had a policy in place to call parents to confirm a child's absence. They DO seem to have that policy now. It has been theorized that TH used the doctor's appointment confusion and her knowledge that the school did NOT call about absences to buy additional time before K's being missing was discovered. It has also been documented that TH sent an email to K's teacher (about the time she was posting the Science Fair pic on FB) to ask when the science projects needed to be picked up from school. Some have theorized that this was a "check in" designed to ascertain if anyone had noticed K was missing.

I hope this clears some things up. There was a lot of talk that first few days from other teachers, school kids, etc. and then it seemed LE asked them not to talk -- so we don't know right now how much was rumor, truth, over active imagination, just plain wrong or confused information, etc. was going on. I feel certain that pertinent facts will be made clear as the investigation proceeds.

You are a sweetheart and thank you.
I can see a young child mistakenly saying substitute because a parent or someone other then his regular teacher told him to calm down.
the school not calling in my mind is monumental.
If I had a child (mine are grown ups) in a school that did not call if a child is absent? I would not allow the child to go there, or I would sit in class too. That is unacceptable.
It is no different then if a baby sitter took a child to the park, and a child disappears and the baby sitter did not alert someone.
The only part that I can accept is the misunderstanding about his Dr. appointment.

 

[nosysw]

You are a sweetheart and thank you.
I can see a young child mistakenly saying substitute because a parent or someone other then his regular teacher told him to calm down.
the school not calling in my mind is monumental.
If I had a child (mine are grown ups) in a school that did not call if a child is absent? I would not allow the child to go there, or I would sit in class too. That is unacceptable.
It is no different then if a baby sitter took a child to the park, and a child disappears and the baby sitter did not alert someone.
The only part that I can accept is the misunderstanding about his Dr. appointment.

hi, songline: trying to be devil's advocate here- there's a difference between a child being seen and then being absent, and just being absent...my school wants you to call in when a child is absent but to be honest, sometimes I forget, as I'm dealing with other kids, and sometimes leaving him with hubby as I'm rushing out the door to work...mean to call when I get to work but something comes up and I forget...(you know we can't count on hubby to watch kids and make phone call, lol!)...since when i do bring my kids, it's always directly into someone's care who is acknowledging receiving them (i.e. before-care where I sign them in) if they don't see them, they assume they are home with me (and do get annoyed if i don't send in a note the next day)...they would call on the 2nd day for sure if they don't hear anything...i don't know...we're in a small town where everyone knows everyone and i guess kidnapping wouldn't be considered unless the child was seen or acknowledged to be there by an adult, and then missing, such as what happened with kyron...i guess we do need to tighten up on this but i'm imagining many small towns are the same. but in kyron's case since he was seen already, it's really not acceptable unless the teacher specifically KNEW for a fact that kyron was going to a doctor's appt which does not seem to be the case...they should have called to verify why he wasn't there unless someone specifically told them "hey, he's leaving with me now...remember i told you he had a doctor's appt.?" i would never just take my child under any circumstances without catching the teacher's eye regardless of whether i had previously mentioned that i would be taking him...so in this case, i would consider it negligence but at this point, i'm not sure that part matters... only what was seen, not seen, known, not known would have relevance cause the rest is "shoulda, coulda" unfortunately...

ETA: by it doesn't matter, i don't mean it doesn't matter because there is some negligence and culpability there; i mean it doesn't matter as far as locating him now unless the teacher was somehow involved in the disappearance...does that make sense?

 

[gardeness]

(Respectfully snipped)



Hi, perhaps I can help clarify the situation above that has still been bothering you. I'm pulling my information from the WS timeline and further clarifications from other posters and MSM.

On June 4th, the day of the Science Fair, there was not a substitute teacher. Kyron's regular teacher was there. The other adult in the room was a mom volunteer who was helping to get the kids organized to tour the other classroom exhibits.

From BeanE (Post #4 in Timeline):

The teacher didn't leave the room. The parent chaperone left the room with her group of four kids versus five because she couldn't find Kyron.

There had been confusion (possibly planned by TH) about a doctor's appointment, so there was speculation that the teacher might have momentarily forgotten that K was going to the doctor -- although TH claimed that she had told the teacher the appointment was for the NEXT Friday and that the teacher must not have understood because (Terri's words, quoted by her friend) "This is her first year and she's hard of hearing in one ear." (It was later reported that it was NOT the teacher's first year and the "miss communication" about the doctor's appointment has not been cleared up for the public because it seems pertinent to the case.

I'm sure the teacher has been interviewed by all LE involved and has been asked not to compromise the case by talking about it.

I certainly agree with you that it would have been wonderful if Skyline Elementary would have had a policy in place to call parents to confirm a child's absence. They DO seem to have that policy now. It has been theorized that TH used the doctor's appointment confusion and her knowledge that the school did NOT call about absences to buy additional time before K's being missing was discovered. It has also been documented that TH sent an email to K's teacher (about the time she was posting the Science Fair pic on FB) to ask when the science projects needed to be picked up from school. Some have theorized that this was a "check in" designed to ascertain if anyone had noticed K was missing.

I hope this clears some things up. There was a lot of talk that first few days from other teachers, school kids, etc. and then it seemed LE asked them not to talk -- so we don't know right now how much was rumor, truth, over active imagination, just plain wrong or confused information, etc. was going on. I feel certain that pertinent facts will be made clear as the investigation proceeds.

Hello, and thanks for this post! Is there documentation for the time that the email was sent from TH to the teacher? TIA!

 

[songline]

hi, songline: trying to be devil's advocate here- there's a difference between a child being seen and then being absent, and just being absent...my school wants you to call in when a child is absent but to be honest, sometimes I forget, as I'm dealing with other kids, and sometimes leaving him with hubby as I'm rushing out the door to work...mean to call when I get to work but something comes up and I forget...(you know we can't count on hubby to watch kids and make phone call, lol!)...since when i do bring my kids, it's always directly into someone's care who is acknowledging receiving them (i.e. before-care where I sign them in) if they don't see them, they assume they are home with me (and do get annoyed if i don't send in a note the next day)...they would call on the 2nd day for sure if they don't hear anything...i don't know...we're in a small town where everyone knows everyone and i guess kidnapping wouldn't be considered unless the child was seen or acknowledged to be there by an adult, and then missing, such as what happened with kyron...i guess we do need to tighten up on this but i'm imagining many small towns are the same. but in kyron's case since he was seen already, it's really not acceptable unless the teacher specifically KNEW for a fact that kyron was going to a doctor's appt which does not seem to be the case...they should have called to verify why he wasn't there unless someone specifically told them "hey, he's leaving with me now...remember i told you he had a doctor's appt.?" i would never just take my child under any circumstances without catching the teacher's eye regardless of whether i had previously mentioned that i would be taking him...so in this case, i would consider it negligence but at this point, i'm not sure that part matters... only what was seen, not seen, known, not known would have relevance cause the rest is "shoulda, coulda" unfortunately...

ETA: by it doesn't matter, i don't mean it doesn't matter because there is some negligence and culpability there; i mean it doesn't matter as far as locating him now unless the teacher was somehow involved in the disappearance...does that make sense?[/QUOTE]
You totally make sense. If this parent/substitute teacher/ whomever told a child to calm down, and did nothin but left the room I HAVE NOT ruled out this person as a possibility.

 

[Curious Me]

I love Ann Rule too.

Sitting here thinking how I want her to write a book about this because she's the best one for the job. I trust Ann's take on things. Maybe she's hoping Kyron will be found alive and she won't need to write a book.

Would you believe I can't find a copy of "Small Sacrifices" even in my local library? It's also hard to find "The Stranger Beside Me", but I finally did reread it. For a long time now Ann has been the one we turned to for the truth about the darkness.

Ann Rule - the woman who made me understand Ted Bundy by the little details she wove into the timeline. What a great writer Ann Rule is.

 

[AvalonBlue]

Hello, and thanks for this post! Is there documentation for the time that the email was sent from TH to the teacher? TIA!

Hi, gardeness;-)
I will look for the documentation for the time the email was sent from TH to the teacher about when the science project needed to be picked up. Just from memory (although I *will* document;-) I believe it was when she was reported to have posted the pic of Kyron at the Science Fair on her FB.

Okay, going now to sleuth!:dance:

 

[Jules71]

(Respectfully snipped)



Hi, perhaps I can help clarify the situation above that has still been bothering you. I'm pulling my information from the WS timeline and further clarifications from other posters and MSM.

On June 4th, the day of the Science Fair, there was not a substitute teacher. Kyron's regular teacher was there. The other adult in the room was a mom volunteer who was helping to get the kids organized to tour the other classroom exhibits.

From BeanE (Post #4 in Timeline):

The teacher didn't leave the room. The parent chaperone left the room with her group of four kids versus five because she couldn't find Kyron.

There had been confusion (possibly planned by TH) about a doctor's appointment, so there was speculation that the teacher might have momentarily forgotten that K was going to the doctor -- although TH claimed that she had told the teacher the appointment was for the NEXT Friday and that the teacher must not have understood because (Terri's words, quoted by her friend) "This is her first year and she's hard of hearing in one ear." (It was later reported that it was NOT the teacher's first year and the "miss communication" about the doctor's appointment has not been cleared up for the public because it seems pertinent to the case.

I'm sure the teacher has been interviewed by all LE involved and has been asked not to compromise the case by talking about it.

I certainly agree with you that it would have been wonderful if Skyline Elementary would have had a policy in place to call parents to confirm a child's absence. They DO seem to have that policy now. It has been theorized that TH used the doctor's appointment confusion and her knowledge that the school did NOT call about absences to buy additional time before K's being missing was discovered. It has also been documented that TH sent an email to K's teacher (about the time she was posting the Science Fair pic on FB) to ask when the science projects needed to be picked up from school. Some have theorized that this was a "check in" designed to ascertain if anyone had noticed K was missing.

I hope this clears some things up. There was a lot of talk that first few days from other teachers, school kids, etc. and then it seemed LE asked them not to talk -- so we don't know right now how much was rumor, truth, over active imagination, just plain wrong or confused information, etc. was going on. I feel certain that pertinent facts will be made clear as the investigation proceeds.

Above bbm. I too believe the parent volunteer is the one who left the classroom, but for some reason I was thinking it was after touring the other science exhibits with the group of kids. I thought the other kid commenting about Kyron being missing was when they returned to the class. So if the way BeanE wrote it is correct, Kyron was missing when they put kids into groups and the parent volunteer who was to chaperon the other kids including Kyron left without him because the teacher said to?? If that is the case - what was Kyron supposed to do if he was just in the bathroom - once he returned to class and the groups had already left??

ETA: Oh and also why would the teacher say maybe he's just in the bathroom if she was told he was leaving for an appt? If she wasn't told anything about him leaving for an appt. - why didn't she become alarmed when Kyron never returned "from the bathroom"???

 

[Jules71]

Hi, gardeness;-)
I will look for the documentation for the time the email was sent from TH to the teacher about when the science project needed to be picked up. Just from memory (although I *will* document;-) I believe it was when she was reported to have posted the pic of Kyron at the Science Fair on her FB.

Okay, going now to sleuth!:dance:

I already posted this somewhere - but iirc, the comment about Terri emailing the teacher about when to pick up the science project "was later that day" and it was posted as a comment on a news article. I do not believe a time was ever indicated.

 

[eyes4crime]

I already posted this somewhere - but iirc, the comment about Terri emailing the teacher about when to pick up the science project "was later that day" and it was posted as a comment on a news article. I do not believe a time was ever indicated.

So that piece of information is considered RUMOR? If so, please let's stop it quick. TIA

 

[gwenabob]

Above bbm. I too believe the parent volunteer is the one who left the classroom, but for some reason I was thinking it was after touring the other science exhibits with the group of kids. I thought the other kid commenting about Kyron being missing was when they returned to the class. So if the way BeanE wrote it is correct, Kyron was missing when they put kids into groups and the parent volunteer who was to chaperon the other kids including Kyron left without him because the teacher said to?? If that is the case - what was Kyron supposed to do if he was just in the bathroom - once he returned to class and the groups had already left??

The school isn't that big. The teacher could have just added him to her group or told him to "catch up" to the other group. If he was just getting a drink, they would have been only a minute ahead of him.

And yes, this scenario is how I understand it. He never arrived in class that day. Period. He left right after he toured the exhibits with Terri.

 

[Jules71]

So that piece of information is considered RUMOR? If so, please let's stop it quick. TIA

Yes, I believe it is - which is why every time I see someone post about it - I jump in and say it was from a comment on a news article.

 

[Jules71]

The school isn't that big. The teacher could have just added him to her group or told him to "catch up" to the other group. If he was just getting a drink, they would have been only a minute ahead of him.

And yes, this scenario is how I understand it. He never arrived in class that day. Period. He left right after he toured the exhibits with Terri.

Yes, it makes more sense that he was missing before the groups left the classroom to go on the tour. I just really don't get why the teacher then was not alarmed when she realized he never did return "from the bathroom". If it's because she thought he left for an appt, then why did she think he was in the bathroom or getting a drink. Something not right about this.

 

[nosysw]

I love Ann Rule too.

Sitting here thinking how I want her to write a book about this because she's the best one for the job. I trust Ann's take on things. Maybe she's hoping Kyron will be found alive and she won't need to write a book.

Would you believe I can't find a copy of "Small Sacrifices" even in my local library? It's also hard to find "The Stranger Beside Me", but I finally did reread it. For a long time now Ann has been the one we turned to for the truth about the darkness.

Ann Rule - the woman who made me understand Ted Bundy by the little details she wove into the timeline. What a great writer Ann Rule is.

sorry for O/T but it is about Ann...try half.com i bet you will find it as i've bought many of her books there...

 

[gliving]

Ann Rule Called the Hormans Within a Week of Kyron’s Disappearance

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07...horman-within-a-week-of-kyrons-disappearance/

 

[Calliope]

Ann Rule Called the Hormans Within a Week of Kyron’s Disappearance

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07...horman-within-a-week-of-kyrons-disappearance/

WTH ??


:furious:

 

[newone]

Ann Rule Called the Hormans Within a Week of Kyron’s Disappearance

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07...horman-within-a-week-of-kyrons-disappearance/

makes me feel very uneasy that this appears today

 

[BeanE]

"Surprise, surprise. --- Casey Anthony

 

[cluciano63]

I find the fact that she called either family so early on kind of...icky.