2010.11.29 Defense Initial Penalty Phase Witness List

[Tulessa]

Thank you for your reply...I am so glad to learn the children are doing well....monster daddy actually brought tears to my eyes .Your story is a perfect example of the far reaching effects of murder..... Just as with Caylee...we never knew her and yet we, not her family, stand as her champions for justice. Her murder, just as your brother's, has long arms. God bless all of you.

Thank you. The Judge has stated that this will go to trial THIS year. That will give me some closure I hope.

 

[beach]

I thought the same AT that time. However, GA had certainly entrenched his soul with CA's lies immediately after these interviews.

Two years later .... what will he do? Will GA go to LE and the SAO and confess to his lies? Will GA accept whatever punishment comes by confessing? Will GA confess at the point of the penalty phase if there is one?

Will GA be the human being Caylee needs and wants him to be?

He might not, but let's remember who carries George's family jewels in her purse here. If he had any backbone, he'd stand up for Caylee. Instead, he does whatever his wife tells him to, even if he doesn't like it.

That is what has frustrated me time and again. I no longer expect George to man up and be the grandfather Caylee deserved. Cindy has him tightly right where she wants him, and he's just going to go along no matter how much it hurts him. It shouldn't be that you don't mess with the Anthony's - it should be that you don't mess with Cindy Anthony.

I do not now, nor in the trial, expect George to be anything other than Cindy's puppet. If he had any sense, he'd get away from Cindy and go live a life as far away from this mess as he possibly could. Instead, he chooses to stay with Cindy and besmirch his precious granddaughter's memory time and again. Dang, I don't know who I'm more mad at, him or Cindy!

Following up to say that I can't disagree with anything either of you have said.

I don't know. I don't expect George to do anything different. But I'd be lying if I didn't say I pray everyday that Caylee's beloved JoJo will do the right thing by her. I do believe George feels more guilt about this betrayal of Caylee (in the name of saving Casey at all costs) than anyone in that family. I pray he lives up to be her hero. Like I said, I don't expect it, but I'm not convinced that GA will hold up under pressure on the stand. No, I don't think he will confess all in some dramatic moment - just saying that I think he will be more transparent and jurors may be able to read between the lines a bit better with GA.

 

[LambChop]

Maybe we should all say a little prayer for GA to do the right thing for Caylee. It's not too late. There is still time. jmo

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Mac, when I was watching it this morning (couldn't sleep....thank GOD for my earphones and laptop...likely saving my marriage) , I kept thinking that too...wow...they have no proof. So that leads us to the reasonable doubt, and what reasonable will mean to each person. It isn't that they are to have NO doubt. Much like the Scott Peterson case, one can reach a conclusion based on circumstantial evidence, no smoking gun required. I wasn't able to find the entire trial on line, just these snippets, but based on the vedict, I assume the State had enough to convince the jury that a reasonable person could conclude he did it. I think we have enough in this case to reasonably conclude Casey did it.

I don't know if mom or pop in their despertation would agree with Mason and Baez wanting the jury to make inferences by pointing the finger at them as being as likely to have been the ones who may be responsible for this crime, since Cindy already claims she did the computer searches, they both are as likely to have had access to the child's clothing and laundry bag, blanket, etc. If it goes to trial, go along with it or don't ...of course that is going to be what the defense does. MOO

In the penalty phase if we get to that, I wouldn't put anything past Casey to have her attorneys try. It pains me to say it but possible divorce and illness could happen for mom and pop, a full blown trial will be brutal on them. Casey wont care, she will sit there, flat affect, preening.

Regarding Mr. Mason, I have been feeling a bit guilty recently, wondering if I would want folks ridiculing my father or my grandfather when tasks become harder for them and they cannot help it. In real life I would never criticize an elder.

Having now seen him in action in his Serrano trial, I am convinced ....it is stick. He is acting.
When I see Cheney Mason saying constantly to Judge Perry I am old, a hundred times, and telling the judge
"I am old,
I just can't hear you,
I can't, I forget,
I am old"
I sometimes wonder what he is still doing working. He is a wealthy man, he should be enjoying his family and the fruits of his labor now.

The constant whining about his limits and his age, it seems so contradictory to me to his hubris and other personailty of BMOC ( Big Man In the Courtroom),
bullying the courtroom staff about the microphones,
first hearing calling Mr. Ashton "Ignorant",
telling the reporter Ms. Melich she is "Too stupid",
condescending to Judge Strickland "I bet you'll trust me" with an almost or- else tone,
condescending to Judge Perry, "I have been practicing law for forty years and I have never been held in contempt and I am not going to let it happen!"

It is pretty fluid....
give an old man a break and then right back to
very rude...I'll tell you how it is going to be kids tone
and back again.

It is a mockery,
a farse,
just by the sheer fact that he can turn it on and off. He is not senile. He is not suffering from mental problems.

It is stict, and I do not think the jury is going to be the least bit taken in by it. MOO
I am very glad I studied his work this morning, everything is relative. Much like when Kent and Sluetherontheside got us all of Andrea Lyon's colorful lectures, etc.
we knew just what motion she would file next and why. Indeed cut and paste she did, literally, to the point that a few times the other folks names remained on Casey Anthony's legal document in error.
When I finish this case, I never want to study another. These folks drive me nuts! Much like Yuri must have felt about Cindy driving him nuts here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzSG0RHKhzk
May God forgive me if I am wrong about Mr. Mason's mental condition. I am not a doctor,and of course all of my posts are to be taken as only satire.

I agree. It is utterly disgraceful and I don't understand why people like that are allowed to practice law.

 

[jennyb]

Following up to say that I can't disagree with anything either of you have said.

I don't know. I don't expect George to do anything different. But I'd be lying if I didn't say I pray everyday that Caylee's beloved JoJo will do the right thing by her. I do believe George feels more guilt about this betrayal of Caylee (in the name of saving Casey at all costs) than anyone in that family. I pray he lives up to be her hero. Like I said, I don't expect it, but I'm not convinced that GA will hold up under pressure on the stand. No, I don't think he will confess all in some dramatic moment - just saying that I think he will be more transparent and jurors may be able to read between the lines a bit better with GA.

You know Beach, I agree with you here.

It's a blessing to be a terrible liar. A gift. George is a bad liar because he has goodness in him and he feels shame. He can't pull it off like the other hard-core narcissists in his family. He doesn't realize he is lucky to have a heart and be incapable of deception. He gives it the college try but is so transparent and his attempts at lying are laughable.

You look at some of those pics of him, one I remember at the memorial and one slumped over the wheel of his car, he's crumpled in grief, those pics just tore me up.

For these reasons I hold him more responsible. He knows better. He's not a born narcissist like his wife and daughter (in my opinion) and yet he follows along because he's a weak human being, lower than a worm.

I don't know what he gains by sticking with the program. At any time, still to this day, if he came out and told the truth he'd be embraced by so many people (not me but many). He'd be lauded, forgiven, loved, and probably be made very wealthy selling books, media appearances and talking to battered men's groups all over the world. He could really make a contribution. He'd be Caylee's hero and gain some self-respect in the process.

Oh well, too bad. If he manages to find a way to have some courage in the next few months I'd be surprised but like you, I hope he does.

 

[countzero]

My daddy use to tell me "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

GA is following that road or the yellow brick road but currently he ISN'T following the road to set himself free to bring Caylee justice and end the fiasco of a trial.

 

[Purple Iris]

George is going to stay loyal with whoever provides the biggest bank account.

So, if he has to stay with Cindy in order to accomplish that, then, that's exactly what he will do.
We've seen that side already.

 

[nums24]

Hi everyone :seeya:, thanks Muzikman :rocker:!

The first person I chose to look up on the witness list is C. Stoner, the name intrigued me. This person has co-authored a book about cults:

http://www.prem-rawat-bio.org/library/stoner/stoner.html

Book info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Gods_Children_(book)

inauthor:"Carroll Stoner" - Google Search

After further research, I really don't believe ICA was in cult, based on the other witnesses listed for Penalty Phase, former schoolmates, old friends, etc, that C Stoner was a former teacher:

Carroll A Stoner is a science teacher at Ocoee High School, she is married and lives in Winter Garden:

https://www.ocps.net/lc/west/hoc/staffulty/Pages/default.aspx

https://www.ocps.net/lc/west/hoc/clubs/Pages/sciencenationalhonorsociety.aspx

 

[A_News_Junkie]

After further research, I really don't believe ICA was in cult, based on the other witnesses listed for Penalty Phase, former schoolmates, old friends, etc, that C Stoner was a former teacher:

Carroll A Stoner is a science teacher at Ocoee High School, she is married and lives in Winter Garden:

https://www.ocps.net/lc/west/hoc/staffulty/Pages/default.aspx

https://www.ocps.net/lc/west/hoc/clubs/Pages/sciencenationalhonorsociety.aspx

Agree -- I found several references to the author and co-author being journalists. I think this is the co-author of the cult book.
http://www.myseniorcollege.com/cstoner.html

 

[nums24]

Agree -- I found several references to the author and co-author being journalists. I think this is the co-author of the cult book.
http://www.myseniorcollege.com/cstoner.html

Great find!

 

[sleutherontheside]

I have to say that I have been occupied watching a murder trial in North Florida. THe penalty phase began yesterday. It has been eye opening to say the least. I have learned so much I can almost anticipate how the penalty phase of the KC case will go.

The trial....one week by the prosecution and ONE DAY by the defense...Def was found guilty after only 4 hours of deliberation...during the penalty phase the defense has put on more experts and witnesses than they did during trial.

When you only have so much to work with....you focus on your mitigation.

I believe that is what we are seeing in the KC case. Everything else...just a distraction.

JMO



If you thought JB was "bad"....

 

[logicalgirl]

My daddy use to tell me "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

GA is following that road or the yellow brick road but currently he ISN'T following the road to set himself free to bring Caylee justice and end the fiasco of a trial.

Long ago, I had a husband who had the best of intentions. When he would let my children down again, and again, I would tell them he means well, he has the best of intentions.

When my oldest was about 19, she looked at me one day when we were sitting around and said, "Remember when you always told us Dad loved us and he had the best of intentions?" I said "Sure". She said "Well, you forgot to tell us he is also an (insert bad word that would get me :ufo: off the board forever)!

So much for the best of intentions - it's like potential - meaning failure to succeed.

 

[faefrost]

I have to say that I have been occupied watching a murder trial in North Florida. THe penalty phase began yesterday. It has been eye opening to say the least. I have learned so much I can almost anticipate how the penalty phase of the KC case will go.

The trial....one week by the prosecution and ONE DAY by the defense...Def was found guilty after only 4 hours of deliberation...during the penalty phase the defense has put on more experts and witnesses than they did during trial.

When you only have so much to work with....you focus on your mitigation.

I believe that is what we are seeing in the KC case. Everything else...just a distraction.

JMO



If you thought JB was "bad"....

But then that once again brings up the rather obvious question of why bring it to trial? You have next to nothing to prevent a guilt verdict and the best you can hope for on mitigation equals the worst a plea deal could get you, and the worst on mitigation is a state execution. Why roll those dice?

 

[logicalgirl]

I have to say that I have been occupied watching a murder trial in North Florida. THe penalty phase began yesterday. It has been eye opening to say the least. I have learned so much I can almost anticipate how the penalty phase of the KC case will go.

The trial....one week by the prosecution and ONE DAY by the defense...Def was found guilty after only 4 hours of deliberation...during the penalty phase the defense has put on more experts and witnesses than they did during trial.

When you only have so much to work with....you focus on your mitigation.

I believe that is what we are seeing in the KC case. Everything else...just a distraction.

JMO

If you thought JB was "bad"....

I agree, that is what we will see. The problem for the Defense is what I keep reading about in past cases re the mitigation phase of past cases. The Defense presents the most terrible circumstances about the backgrounds of the defendant and the jury acknowledges them. But then goes on to set these mitigating factors aside and gives them no weight at all in recommendations for sentencing.

I don't think there is anything in ICA's background that will sway a jury at all away from wanting a maximum sentence. And we have no "Angel of Death Row" to come up with her famous histronics for this jury either.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I have to say that I have been occupied watching a murder trial in North Florida. THe penalty phase began yesterday. It has been eye opening to say the least. I have learned so much I can almost anticipate how the penalty phase of the KC case will go.

The trial....one week by the prosecution and ONE DAY by the defense...Def was found guilty after only 4 hours of deliberation...during the penalty phase the defense has put on more experts and witnesses than they did during trial.

When you only have so much to work with....you focus on your mitigation.

I believe that is what we are seeing in the KC case. Everything else...just a distraction.

JMO



If you thought JB was "bad"....

Sorry for going O/T but....I need to ask...

Are you speaking of the Christopher Sutton trial???

He too held much animosity for his parents for sending him to reform school. He wanted retribution for that and also the money...JMHO

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

"This court should be made aware that the state of Florida has filed multiple witness lists past the deadline, and it is not until the defense files one that they seem to wish to have the deadline enforced, albeit selectively," the defense motion reads. "The state has also failed to establish how they are prejudiced by the timing of [the] defense supplemental witness list?"

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...y-new-defense-motion-20110216,0,3181111.story

Is that true?

Has the State added witnesses to their list past the deadline?

I now am suspicious of anything that comes out of the mouth of Baez or his team members. It's proven time and time again, they "misrepresent" facts/evidence...Does anyone know of any witness the State might have added after the drop dead date??? JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[Intermezzo]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...y-new-defense-motion-20110216,0,3181111.story

Is that true?

Has the State added witnesses to their list past the deadline?

I now am suspicious of anything that comes out of the mouth of Baez or his team members. It's proven time and time again, they "misrepresent" facts/evidence...Does anyone know of any witness the State might have added after the drop dead date??? JMHO

Justice for Caylee

LLL,
There is more discussion about this in the Defense Witness List thread and maybe even the KB thread..

I know the state has amended the list...including updating addresses..now adding NEW witness...I would have to look at the List(s) themselves in the State Witness list Thread.....but If witnesses were/are added after the deadline date..they party adding the witness must show good cause and when that witness became known to them...AND if memory serves me right the Defense NEVER once filed a Motion to Strike any of the States Amended Witness Lists.

http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hi...n to Strike Def Supplemental Witness List.pdf
LLL..here is the Link to Judge Perrys Order setting a date for a Hearing on the matter...JBP states that the Defense did not provide good cause in their Supplemental Witness List as to why these witnesses should be added and beyond the date that the Court established...

 

[ThinkTank]

Quote:
"This court should be made aware that the state of Florida has filed multiple witness lists past the deadline, and it is not until the defense files one that they seem to wish to have the deadline enforced, albeit selectively," the defense motion reads. "The state has also failed to establish how they are prejudiced by the timing of [the] defense supplemental witness list?"

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...y-new-defense-motion-20110216,0,3181111.story

Is that true?

Has the State added witnesses to their list past the deadline?

I now am suspicious of anything that comes out of the mouth of Baez or his team members. It's proven time and time again, they "misrepresent" facts/evidence...Does anyone know of any witness the State might have added after the drop dead date??? JMHO

Justice for Caylee

The State had until October 31, 2010 to add witnesses to their List.
The State only added (13) new witnesses, past that deadline, with good cause.

- Feb. 10, 2011 - with "good cause" - the State added (1) new witness-
Julie Davis, rebuttal witness - added to State Witness List Feb 10, 2011
good cause for adding past deadline - her name and TES documents found during TES records review on Jan 13, 2011 in preparation for depositions on
Jan 20, 2011 of defense witnesses regarding searches on Suburban Drive. Previously disclosed photocopies of documents did not reveal handwriting that appears on the original.

- January 14, 2011 - with "good cause" - the State added (1) new witness - U.S. Secret Service Joseph Stephens, because the State had only just received the Report from the FBI on Jan 13, 2011. He did ink analysis on the Diary.

- December 16, 2010 - with "good cause" - the State added (11) new witnesses, who were TES searchers, to rebut the deposition testimony of Laura B Deposition and documents received from Mrs. Buchanan August 16, 2010. Deposition completed November 17, 2010.

***************************************************************

- Sept 30, 2010 - still within the Oct 31st deadline - the State added (1) new witness - the Jean-Marc Lefebvre-Despeaux - President of Blue Star, to testify about issues (about chloroform) that were raised in the depositions of the Medical Examiners and Dr. Vass from Oak Ridge Lab.

- August 30, 2010 - still within the Oct 31st deadline - (11) of the new witnesses, who are from Orange County Corrections (jail), were added to give testimony related to the Internal Affairs investigation of former jail guard Sylvia H., who allowed access between Inmate Anthony and Inmate Robyn.

*************************************************************
The Defense added (2) new witnesses past the original deadline of August 31, 2010, WITHOUT providing any "good cause".
Added Sept 20, 2010
- Michael Antonello - (STATE witness - GLOBE mag)
- Jennifer Killins - heard screams

Now the Defense wants to add 6 new witnesses past the deadline of Oct 31, 2010, WITHOUT providing any "good cause".
- Maya Derkovic (STATE witness - Inmate)
- Robyn Adams (STATE witness - Inmate)
- Kenneth Drupiewski (on Defense Penalty Phase Witness List)
- Kathleen Belich
- Anne Pham (STATE witness - TES searcher)
- Kasper Jordan (STATE witness - TES searcher)

 

[sleutherontheside]

Sorry for going O/T but....I need to ask...

Are you speaking of the Christopher Sutton trial???

He too held much animosity for his parents for sending him to reform school. He wanted retribution for that and also the money...JMHO

No, I am referring to the Gary Michael Hilton trial over in Tallahassee.

There is a thread on him.