2010.12.30 Motion to Exclude Unreliable Evidence (Plant or Root Growth)

[Aedrys]

Brilliant post today on the Hinky Meter.
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/01/09/caylee-anthony-case-bock-and-hall-with-bouts-of-folly/

Why would Baez even call him an 'alleged' expert when his credentials are cast iron ?

Rock ON JWG!!!! Awesome article!!!

 

[kaRN]

Huh. Is anyone else besides me nervous about Dr. Hall now? After reading this motion, it seems like he's not going to be a very good expert witness, unless I'm missing something.

The other thing I noticed is the the defense never says his conclusions are flat out wrong, just that they are unreliable. So does that mean they're right but should be thrown out because of the way they were obtained?

Someone please reassure me. I am very alarmed after reading this motion, and that never happens when I read a defense motion.

Oh, and I noticed the dig at LE in there. The motion was pretty darn good until he did that. Sheesh, Baez, do all of your motions have to have whining in them?

Don't worry Aedrys until we read a transcript of his deposition and see what types of idiotic questions he was asked or by who. I can barely make out 2 consecutive words that come out of MC's mouth. Why would Dr Hall fare any better?More smoke and mirrors IMO. He'll do fine on the stand which is why the defense bothered to write up this motion. They're scared of him. Without LKB there to formulate intelligent questions just imagine how lame his deposition by MC and JB must have been.
The defense will now have to add gardeners to the long list of people not to have sit on the jury. I don't think anyone who has ever transplanted a plant would find his determinations to be unrealistic. It's far more unrealistic to imagine a stranger wanting a toddler dead badly enough, or her mother framed for murder to keep a rotting corpse around for weeks hoping the mother would be jailed without bond so the body could be dumped near the A's backyard. Fear not my friend!! No juror will believe Caylee was dumped months or weeks after the fact by a mystery stranger that nobody in the family has bothered to look for. Somehow this stranger managed to get access to the A home too....after they all became unemployed and had a live eye camera pointed at their house, to steal the personal effects the baby was dumped with.
IMO, the defense is just opening doors, windows, anything that will detract from the stench coming from their client. Unfortunately they have no idea what will fly in that window or come crashing through the door that they themselves opened. Bring it on I say.

 

[kaRN]

I find it very suspect that some of the Frye references in this motion refer to sex offenders and child abuse within the home environment.

WTH does that have to do with plant growth?? pg 5 at link listed.


Very shady. I doubt this possible attempt at slipping in info will go unnoticed.

Also the comment re LE's inproper handling of the samples has resulted in them being unavailable for further testing. We're talking about roots penetrating and growing through bone. Should the bone surrounding the roots be destroyed to preserve the root?? Is that what he's saying????
He had guardianship of Caylees body and gave her over to the A's to cremate after the ME had done her report. Seems to me it was a defense orchestrated destruction of the precious roots, not LE's but heh critical thinking isn't a skill JB has demonstrated any of IMO.

 

[nums24]

CSI with a botany degree: Plants can help solve crimes
In bizarre Davie murder case, leaves led detectives to an arrest

http://southflorida.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-forensic-botany-20110126,0,2286659.story

Hall is listed as a state witness in one of Florida's most-closely watched murder cases—the one against Casey Anthony, the mother charged with killing her 2-year-old Caylee and dumping the body in east Orange County. Hall was called in to examine the vegetation where the young girl's body was found to try to determine how long it had been there, court records show.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Nums, I just got the same article via my email...I'm always a day late and a dollar short....:floorlaugh:

"Forensic botany is great in destroying alibis and frequently helps determine time since death," said David Hall, a Gainesville-based botanist who is writing a book on the field. "I used to get one or two questions of this sort a year. It's gotten to the point now that I get forensic botany questions two or three times a week."

Hall is listed as a state witness in one of Florida's most-closely watched murder cases—the one against Casey Anthony, the mother charged with killing her 2-year-old Caylee and dumping the body in east Orange County. Hall was called in to examine the vegetation where the young girl's body was found to try to determine how long it had been there, court records show.

I just cannot wait until this botanist tells his side of the vegetation which will prove Caylee laid there the entire time....there is no other person involved, this is all ICA...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[nums24]

Nums, I just got the same article via my email...I'm always a day late and a dollar short....:floorlaugh:

I just cannot wait until this botanist tells his side of the vegetation which will prove Caylee laid there the entire time....there is no other person involved, this is all ICA...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

I know, I was so happy to see that too. Between the plants, roots and bugs there is an abundance of physical evidence.

Justice for Caylee!

 

[nums24]

02/15/2011 Motion to Strike Defendant's Motion to Exclude Unreliable Evidence (Plant or Root Growth):

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/26878633/detail.html

 

[logicalgirl]

02/15/2011 Motion to Strike Defendant's Motion to Exclude Unreliable Evidence (Plant or Root Growth):

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/26878633/detail.html

Just zoomed through these pdf's and all I can say is OMG and wow! I am completely floored at the Defense's arguments. They are actually shockingly empty of ....well, anything really!:loser:

 

[cecybeans]

02/15/2011 Motion to Strike Defendant's Motion to Exclude Unreliable Evidence (Plant or Root Growth):

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/26878633/detail.html

I love JA! He clearly outlines that Dr. Bock, the defense botanist, simply disagrees with the conclusion of the state's botanist, Dr. Hall, but in no way questions the scientific methodology used by Dr. Hall to reach that conclusion, as JB would have it appear. So this has no basis being a Frye matter at all according to JA.

It sounds to me like, yet again, this is JB twisting words and meanings to reach a conclusion he wants, regardless if that was the original intent of the speaker or author. Don't worry Aedrys - once again Mr. Smoke and Mirrors isn't fooling anyone.

 

[nums24]

I love JA! He clearly outlines that Dr. Bock, the defense botanist, simply disagrees with the conclusion of the state's botanist, Dr. Hall, but in no way questions the scientific methodology used by Dr. Hall to reach that conclusion, as JB would have it appear. So this has no basis being a Frye matter at all according to JA.

It sounds to me like, yet again, this is JB twisting words and meanings to reach a conclusion he wants, regardless if that was the original intent of the speaker or author. Don't worry Aedrys - once again Mr. Smoke and Mirrors isn't fooling anyone.

I love JA too! It's a pleasure to read the State's motions. I predict this motion will be granted, I don't see how the "death is different" will help them this time :smile:

 

[angeldust]

Please bear with me because this will probably be as clear as mud but here goes

Is the good dr claiming that the plant root wasnt (big) enough to determine positively that the remains were there for around 6 months but more consistant with being there for around 2 /4 months because i would think the easiest explanation for this would be
that caylees body may have moved a few feet because of the water and eventually rested where they were found, around the middle to end of september that (2/4months) would bring us to the middle of december when she was found, therefore the smaller root...

not helping their case any i dont think

does this make sense cos i know what im trying to say sorry....if im talking through a hole in my a$$

 

[MissJames]

Please bear with me because this will probably be as clear as mud but here goes

Is the good dr claiming that the plant root wasnt (big) enough to determine positively that the remains were there for around 6 months but more consistant with being there for around 2 /4 months because i would think the easiest explanation for this would be
that caylees body may have moved a few feet because of the water and eventually rested where they were found, around the middle to end of september that (2/4months) would bring us to the middle of december when she was found, therefore the smaller root...

not helping their case any i dont think

does this make sense cos i know what im trying to say sorry....if im talking through a hole in my a$$

Makes perfect sense ,IMO !

 

[beach]

Order Granting State's Motion to Strike Defendant's Motion to Exclude Unreliable Evidence Pursuant to Frye (Root Or Plant Growth)

 

[faefrost]

So does this pretty much blow Dr Jane "Happy Plants" Boch out of the water and make her testimony superfluous at best?

 

[AZlawyer]

So does this pretty much blow Dr Jane "Happy Plants" Boch out of the water and make her testimony superfluous at best?

No, it just means that the State's plant expert doesn't have to satisfy the Frye standard in order to get on the stand and give opinions based on his half-century or so of experience. Then Dr. Boch can get on the stand and say that the crime scene was so botanically INTERESTING and maybe Caylee was only there for a week, and the jurors will :waitasec:.

 

[strawberry]

Judge Perry's Order Granting State's Motion to Strike Defendant's Motion to Exclude Unreliable Evidence Purusnat to Frye (Root Or Plant Growth)

This is actually the Chloroform one. The one up in the motions thread as well.

Here is the Root one:

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27242030/detail.html

:innocent:

 

[faefrost]

No, it just means that the State's plant expert doesn't have to satisfy the Frye standard in order to get on the stand and give opinions based on his half-century or so of experience. Then Dr. Boch can get on the stand and say that the crime scene was so botanically INTERESTING and maybe Caylee was only there for a week, and the jurors will :waitasec:.

Well yeah... but challenging a 60 year forensic botanist with a somewhat flighty hobbyist seems to not be a particularly productive approach. Challenging some element of methodology might have had hope in an evidence hearing, but challenging whether or not one of the most experienced botanists in the world can make a reasonable estimate on how fast plants grow, using Dr. "Happy Plants" head to head in front of the jury? Ummmm??? :waitasec:

 

[beach]

This is actually the Chloroform one. The one up in the motions thread as well.

Here is the Root one:

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27242030/detail.html

:innocent:

Thank you, strawberry! I was so excited to see all those Orders I had 5 tabs open copying and pasting as fast as my fingers would click. LOL

I will edit both now and link the correct docs.

eta: They're fixed now. :angel:

 

[QueenD]

Can someone tell me what this means in laymans terms? I am not following this.ullhair:

 

[LancelotLink]

No, it just means that the State's plant expert doesn't have to satisfy the Frye standard in order to get on the stand and give opinions based on his half-century or so of experience. Then Dr. Boch can get on the stand and say that the crime scene was so botanically INTERESTING and maybe Caylee was only there for a week, and the jurors will :waitasec:.

:floorlaugh: