2011.01.24: Hearing Will Address Request For Investigative Hours

[elementary]

I believe it has already started. Didn't the JAC have some questions about the billing very recently? And for the state money folks. Once they start looking, or get the smell of sloppiness. They won't stop.

Thanks! This could possibly fit with Judge Perry's warning to Baez that there are lawyers out there willing to chase after fraudulently obtained JAC money. Perhaps he has confidence that this might happen and hence his ruling today? Yes, I'm grasping at straws.

 

[denjet]

Since JB went through the $275,000 like a hot knife through butter do you think once they go over his records that someone will draft a law which would require the defense attorney to account for every dime of the client's money before allowing them to apply for State assistance.

It's very difficult to find the facts that favor your client when they are just not there. And it appears that Mr. Baez has had a plan all along to use up that photo money first then make the state pay for all the work he did not do. Look at the discovery. It appears they have done nothing, nothing. And from the looks of the motions that were filed by defense they appear to have been done by students. There seems to be two significant victims in the case against Casey Anthony. Caylee and the State of Florida. jmo

That's what I take issue with too ... why on earth hasn't Jose been made to itemize the money he received and what exactly it went for ... I thought that was supposed to happen but it doesn't seem to have ... It was addressed at the indigency hearing but seems Jose got away with very vague accounting of the media windfall ...
Shouldn't he have had to show how many dollars went towards investigations?
How much was spent on interviews/depositions?
How much was spent on experts and evidence examination?

Nope, KC's declared indigent and now the state has to pay for her defense ...

Seems he's been given carte blanche to keep spending tax payers money on
ridiculous fishing expeditions and googling that he sure wouldn't be doing if he or his client were paying for it ....

Can anyone explain to me how JAC is being made to pay for expenses after the fact ... Jose runs out of the previous money, keeps ringing up expenses and then files for more money to pay for unapproved past expenses and future ??? I just don't get it ! :banghead:

 

[logicalgirl]

That's what I take issue with too ... why on earth hasn't Jose been made to itemize the money he received and what exactly it went for ... I thought that was supposed to happen but it doesn't seem to have ... It was addressed at the indigency hearing but seems Jose got away with very vague accounting of the media windfall ...
Shouldn't he have had to show how many dollars went towards investigations?
How much was spent on interviews/depositions?
How much was spent on experts and evidence examination?

Nope, KC's declared indigent and now the state has to pay for her defense ...

Seems he's been given carte blanche to keep spending tax payers money on
ridiculous fishing expeditions and googling that he sure wouldn't be doing if he or his client were paying for it ....

Can anyone explain to me how JAC is being made to pay for expenses after the fact ... Jose runs out of the previous money, keeps ringing up expenses and then files for more money to pay for unapproved past expenses and future ??? I just don't get it ! :banghead:

I don't think anyone including HHJP is saying these grants and extensions were going to go on indefinitely - in fact didn't he just say the opposite?

I think HHJP has to at least give the impression he is listening to the defense and their concerns and making an attempt to give them every opportunity to present a defense. My guess is HHJP has an amount in mind that he believes is fair - his own line in the sand, and the defense is rapidly approaching it. He can't appear to be prejudicial just because the whole defense effort has been a disastrous mess. We need to remember the big picture here.

 

[luv]

I don't think anyone including HHJP is saying these grants and extensions were going to go on indefinitely - in fact didn't he just say the opposite?

I think HHJP has to at least give the impression he is listening to the defense and their concerns and making an attempt to give them every opportunity to present a defense. My guess is HHJP has an amount in mind that he believes is fair - his own line in the sand, and the defense is rapidly approaching it. He can't appear to be prejudicial just because the whole defense effort has been a disastrous mess. We need to remember the big picture here.

Missed you and your "logical" posts!:seeya:

 

[jennyb]

I don't get it either. If Judge Perry wants to dole out 300 hours by 300 hours by 300 hours because "death is different" FINE.

But why go through the charade with the "comb" and the "documentation" blah blah blah when this started?

Why is he obviously making himself appear weak and disinterested in his own rulings? How is this supposed to garner respect from an already disrespectful runaway train of a defense?

Why say anything at all about rules and regulations if he's going to cross himself over and over again?

I'd rather he not have said anything at all and just given them their unlimited fishing expedition -- no questions, no accounting asked.

I DON'T GET IT. Is this any way to run a judicial process?

Is this the first time in history an indigent defendant is facing the death penalty? Seems to me the rules on accounting for expenses for indigent defendants was established way before Miss Casey Anthony and her defense team sashayed into a courtroom.

Somebody please explain this to me!

 

[jennyb]

I don't think anyone including HHJP is saying these grants and extensions were going to go on indefinitely - in fact didn't he just say the opposite?

I think HHJP has to at least give the impression he is listening to the defense and their concerns and making an attempt to give them every opportunity to present a defense. My guess is HHJP has an amount in mind that he believes is fair - his own line in the sand, and the defense is rapidly approaching it. He can't appear to be prejudicial just because the whole defense effort has been a disastrous mess. We need to remember the big picture here.

See to me this is capricious and unprofessional. If the defense has a good reason to ask for funds, give it to them as long as they adhere to the rules of accounting set out by JAC.

It's really unfair if he has a set amount he hands over willy nilly and then cuts them off. Why not have them abide by proper cause and accounting?

This is more unfair than if he took each request seriously and judged on the merits and on the accountability.

I'm mystified.

 

[jennyb]

I was really disappointed today when HHJP granted the defense the 300 hours they asked for. Thank you to the poster who pointed out that since they were already in the red, they didn't actually get 300 MORE hours.

However, after reading all your posts, I am feeling a little better and think that HHJP is a wise man. It will be more cost effective in the long run to give the defense their hours so they can not appeal on that issue. If he can keep this trial on track AND make sure it goes smoothly with no bumps, then he will be saving us tax paying Floridans the cost of battling future appeals. So spend a little now and save a lot later does make sense to me.

(But I am still going to pout for awhile.)

I'm pouting too because now the defense will use 400 hours so they'll have run up a tab an extra 100 above what they were granted and on it goes till May and maybe beyond.

Remember Mason when asked by Kathi Belich way back said: "We'll take the hours we need" (paraphrasing). And that's exactly what they're doing. Thumbing their noses at the Judge right out in the open. Well okay then.

 

[ynotdivein]

I'm pouting too because now the defense will use 400 hours so they'll have run up a tab an extra 100 above what they were granted and on it goes till May and maybe beyond.

Remember Mason when asked by Kathi Belich way back said: "We'll take the hours we need" (paraphrasing). And that's exactly what they're doing. Thumbing their noses at the Judge right out in the open. Well okay then.

And all their efforts will be for naught.

And they will be publicly exposed for the (unusual persons) that they are.

And their client will still be found guilty.

And her chances for successful appeal will be next to nil.

Let them have these moments. What's the term--"Pyrrhic victories" I think?

 

[jennyb]

And all their efforts will be for naught.

And they will be publicly exposed for the (unusual persons) that they are.

And their client will still be found guilty.

And her chances for successful appeal will be next to nil.

Let them have these moments. What's the term--"Pyrrhic victories" I think?

I understand this line of thinking and I agree. I'm just confused about a judge who doesn't stand by his words. This is a tough group of defense attorneys who have shown they disrespect the court. And we've got a long way to go during pre-trial, jury selection and the trial and penalty phase.

It's going to be like herding wild cats from now on. And I don't think it's wise to continually let them run over their boundaries. I believe in fairness and like I mentioned earlier it would be better if he doesn't set rules and then break them consistently. Just give them what they want if you're going to be weak with your own rulings.

But ultimately, yes, I think Judge Perry is going to let in all the important evidence that will convict her and he's not adverse to condemning a guilty party to death. He's shown that.

Just my assessment with the curious way he's handling the money that he's undercutting his own authority in a strange way -- but that's his problem and not ours. LOL. Also, I don't think Baez will ever pay the JAC back money owed and well that's not our problem either. It's JAC's.

So okay. It's all good. It will be. Ultimately!

 

[faefrost]

I understand this line of thinking and I agree. I'm just confused about a judge who doesn't stand by his words. This is a tough group of defense attorneys who have shown they disrespect the court. And we've got a long way to go during pre-trial, jury selection and the trial and penalty phase.

It's going to be like herding wild cats from now on. And I don't think it's wise to continually let them run over their boundaries. I believe in fairness and like I mentioned earlier it would be better if he doesn't set rules and then break them consistently. Just give them what they want if you're going to be weak with your own rulings.

But ultimately, yes, I think Judge Perry is going to let in all the important evidence that will convict her and he's not adverse to condemning a guilty party to death. He's shown that.

Just my assessment with the curious way he's handling the money that he's undercutting his own authority in a strange way -- but that's his problem and not ours. LOL. Also, I don't think Baez will ever pay the JAC back money owed and well that's not our problem either. It's JAC's.

So okay. It's all good. It will be. Ultimately!

Always keep in mind that he has to keep a clear separation in his mind between the defense and the defendant. He does not want to short change what the defendant needs for adequate trial preparation because the defense is a pack of clowns. Bu granting the funding to the defendant now for trial and trial prep claims of how the defense used it can be addressed later, in such a way that do not impact the defendants legitimate needs at trial. Denying the funds now is the judge penalizing the defendant before trial. Making the defense account for the funds later is taking it out on the lawyers.

As someone else said, HHJP has a pretty good idea of exactly what the $$$ amount all of this is supposed to cost is. This isn't his first rodeo. I'm betting he has a mental number somewhere between $35 abd 40k for investigations and a total number somewhere in the $250-4350k range for overall defense expenses. The trick is not giving it to the ravenous wolves all at once to blow it all on surge items such as harrasing TES volunteers. By making them come and ask for it in pieces it puts the onus and the responsibility on the defense lawyers for how it is used and how it is documented and controlled.

 

[Psmith]

I'm really not OK with this either .... background checks on Dr G and the ME's office ???
"Investigating" (Googling) media stories they don't like and putting them on flash drive as discovery ????
Finding more TES searchers who say they did NOT search the exact area ???
"Interviewing" (harassing) people they're chasing down who don't want to talk to them or get involved ????

I was really surprised that Judge Perry OK'd the whole amount they asked for ... seems like back peddling after his decision last time

I thought Judge Perry was going to go over JAC requests with a fine-toothed comb ... what happened to that ? JAC even filed a motion questioning the billing and whether the hours were investigative hours ...

I just don't understand ....

Yeah, I know what you mean. Moreover, the background checks (aka trawling for anything that can be re-interpreted as sleaze) are repugnant.

But it's not up to Judge P or State to tell Defense (or clue them in) that investigating media stories on the interwebz is not effective investigation for a murder 1 case. CM and Baez seem convinced otherwise, so I guess they are going to be a bit surprised when trial starts that State's case is not based on WFTV, WESH, etc. :rofl:

The list of the flashdrive contents, State's inventory 1.24.2011:

Consider items 3 and 21. I am sure that Det. Allen, SA Burdick, SA George, and SA Ashton all appreciate the extra pics of themselves at Suburban Drive. lol I suppose Baez's point is that there is no photo of him? lolol :tongue:

A huge waste of time, money, and an empty flashdrive.

But on a more serious note, I agree with what some other posters have said. After this point, Baez is going to have to try a lot harder to come up with a justification for yet more funds. I believe Judge P when he indicates a line is being drawn.

 

[Leila]

Can the JAC sue for misuse of state money after the trial? I mean, there is actual proof that they are wasting this money and they are continuing to get away with it. It makes me sick to my stomach!

I missed the hearing today and am just catching up on this thread to read what happened.

Back at the time of the sanctions hearing, HHMP stated that defense attorneys have been sued for mishandling finances. He just made the statement, and there there was a long pause. I think it was a very subtle warning to be careful what you do with the funds allocated.

 

[Leila]

What drug do they use to sedate pets before putting them to sleep?

There was one recent execution (I think in Arizona) in which they used the same medications used by vets as they didn't have enough of the drug normally used.

 

[Itsy]

HLN news (vinnie politan) is covering casey anthony story, right now.

Can you recap what was discussed? I saw Mark Eiglarsh (sp?) start to answer a question about where are all the people Casey supposedly was asking in the bars if they'd seen Caylee & that was it. I'd just turned on the TV, heard him say that little bit, and a client called - grrrr. By the time I got off the phone, they were on to the next subject of the night. :banghead: (I wish they'd repeat this hour of programming like they used to, rather than having NG's show on twice per night...)

TIA

 

[sumbunny]

It was a really quick little snippet about the imaginanny, etc. I didn't really pay much attention to it. And nancy grace now airs back to back SAME SHOW..at 8 and 9pm.
Ugh. They need to fix their program schedule.

I think someone posted earlier what they talked about. It was nothing new though.

 

[kaRN]

All I can think of is the promise of "fine toothed comb". I haven't seen any evidence here. Was it an empty promise?

I'm wondering if after the trial, we'll be seeing JAC take out their lice comb to tear JB and his accounting apart. If they make a stink now it could delay the trial and the top priority here is getting KC sorted away. Every single soul on the planet except ICA may know her lawyer is a bumbling incompetent but as long as she's happy and her parents aren't making a stink, then let him carry through. He can be disbarred after KC's tucked away in Lowell.
I'm actually shocked any of this was approved. I can only imagine it was a move to protect the trial record. Clearly the defense have nothing to work with and JB is so far over his head it's laughable. I'm trying to convince myself that this is actually a great thing for the SAO. The defense has other more critical preparations to make in the next few months but by all means let them waste their time dealing with TES searchers who won't answer their doors and hostile penalty phase witnesses. Also, the more money spent by the defense now to produce nothing, may cut the trial length by weeks and end up saving the taxpayer money. :waitasec:

 

[The World According]

The best part of this hearing was when the defense whined that more things keep getting released by the state and the defense asked if there could be a cut off date on them not being able to release anything futher.
Jose: " We keep playing catch up every time the State of Florida releases more discovery....and from what I am hearing from Ms. LDB, they intend to keep on doing this all the way throughout trial.

Mrs. Drane Burdick, unphased, as usual, did not even look up from her documents. She simply said we will continue doing our investigation to rebut the defense witnesses . If that means we are providing information up to trial and even during the trial that would serve as rebuttal, we will continue to do that.


Why does Jose Baez not know that of course the state is going to look into rebuttal of documents and witnesses? How many cases has he tried?
She mops the floor with them, without fail, every single time.

http://www.wesh.com/r/26599708/detail.html
Does anyone have the entire hearing? I only have this brief snipped, but it is a good one!!!

 

[Leila]

In Texas, the nation's busiest death penalty state, the Department of Criminal Justice said Friday it is exploring the use of another anesthetic. The state has four executions scheduled between now and July but has enough sodium thiopental to carry out only two February executions, spokesman Jason Clark said.


Oklahoma has gone a different route, switching to pentobarbital, an anesthetic commonly used to put cats and dogs to sleep. The state has conducted two executions with that drug.

http://www.statesman.com/news/texas...ty-drug-1200270.html?cxtype=rss_ece_frontpage

Thanks Watergirl...............I had read that a recent execution used a drug commonly used by vets, and I thought it was Arizona. I stand corrected.......it was Oklahoma.

 

[RR0004]

They are not paying Baez. Baez was paid by KC prior to going indigent. Because he cashed that check and accepted reasonable payment for his services, he is in for the duration. He gets no money from the state. There was actually a Florida law put in place last year that prevents an attorney from bailing on a client once paid, if the money runs out and the client is declared indigent. The KC case and JB were the major inspirations for the lawmakers at the time.

And yeah while she did give him the bad $4k check. There is also about $90k of "licensing deal" monies from ABC that seem to have found their way into his pocket as payment for services.

So the check for $4000 was real?

 

[RR0004]

There is such a law on the books. Here's the kicker though. It only accounts for any active cases for which the attorney has a relationship with the client. They cannot go back and look at past cases that have been closed and the attorney is no longer the active representing council.

if I understand it correctly 30 days after sentencing the lawyer is no longer the attorney of record and the case is closed. Remember (and this is IMPORTANT) JB represented KC on two separate matters. The murder/Caylee related charges and the theft/fraud/checkstealing charges. These were different cases, trials and representation. So JB would have been paid separately for each.

Now if they were 2 ongoing cases involving the same lawyer, then yes the JAC can demand a full accounting regarding each. BUT!... they applied for indigent status EXACTLY 31 days after sentencing in the check fraud, and the day after JB was done and closed out of that case. So any payment records involving it were closed from examination at that time. So JB could have been paid $200k (wink wink nudge nudge) for defending her on the check fraud charges and virtually nothing put towards the murder trial. But the way they timed it means that would not be shown or accounted for.

Well, well, well...now isn't that interesting.
Thanks for the info, faefrost.