2011.05.05 Verdict Watch (day 2)

[Skittles]

The ABC 11 WTVD noon report said one of the jurors is wearing a suit today for the first time. They speculated that that might have something to do with the 2-hour lunch.

Sorry, I can't give a link, it's not on the website yet.

 

[ncsu95]

MissT, I've wondered about that as well. What is it about Brad Cooper that people feel so passionate about? Is it because the crime occurred in Cary? Would he garner the same support if it had happened in Raleigh? Or in Morrisville? Or how about if it happened in Youngsville or Clayton? Is it because the guy is super bright but then did some dumb things? You can't just say he was railroaded--you at least have to look at things Brad did that put him right where he is. And yes, he made several mistakes. Computer ones, lying, just to start. Is it because of Nancy? People secretly hate the victim? I can't figure it out. Cary PD just arrested an 18 yr old for multiple thefts--it's in the paper and on WRAL. Why is no one decrying that arrest as a "rush to judgment?" Heck it was in Cary, afterall. Where are the supporters for him?

For me, it has nothing to do with Brad Cooper. I think he is a creep and grade A @sshole. I'm highly disappointed in the CPD and prosecution, regardless of who the defendant is in this case.

 

[momof7]

For me, it has nothing to do with Brad Cooper. I think he is a creep and grade A @sshole. I'm highly disappointed in the CPD and prosecution, regardless of who the defendant is in this case.

I agree with you.

Kelly

 

[momto3kids]

The ABC 11 WTVD noon report said one of the jurors is wearing a suit today for the first time. They speculated that that might have something to do with the 2-hour lunch.

Sorry, I can't give a link, it's not on the website yet.

Heard that too. Didn't they say it met a request that was made?

 

[unknown403]

At the end of the day if we disagree on the what was presented and what it means it is irrelevant. The jury will decide...when they are full.

 

[babelphissh]

Just a quick question.. which I hope is not OT.. but my friend told me that BC mom found the ducks in the hall closet.. in a box... is that true? I have missed that somewhere along the way ... could someone tell me if this is true?

 

[cygnusx1]

I know what your talking about because I've seen the same thing. As far as why this case is so polarizing I can think of a few reasons:

1 - This happened in Cary and you should know that everyone has a perception of Cary (unfair or not).

2 - Remember that the media should not go without blame here in how they have portrayed this case, especially in the early going. Do you remember GOLO when NC went missing and how everyone was pointing the finger at BC?

3 - Taking point 2, a lot of people looking at this from a distance see this as a rush to judgement (whether he's guilty or not).


There are more reasons, but those are primary ones as to why people side with BC.

And they see it as a travesty of justice that one judge declared him guilty and removed his kids from him months prior to him being charged with anything.

 

[cody100]

MissT, I've wondered about that as well. What is it about Brad Cooper that people feel so passionate about? Is it because the crime occurred in Cary? Would he garner the same support if it had happened in Raleigh? Or in Morrisville? Or how about if it happened in Youngsville or Clayton? Is it because the guy is super bright but then did some dumb things? You can't just say he was railroaded--you at least have to look at things Brad did that put him right where he is. And yes, he made several mistakes. Computer ones, lying, just to start. Is it because of Nancy? People secretly hate the victim? I can't figure it out. Cary PD just arrested an 18 yr old for multiple thefts--it's in the paper and on WRAL. Why is no one decrying that arrest as a "rush to judgment?" Heck it was in Cary, afterall. Where are the supporters for him?

I don't think it is just Cary. Raleigh has equal or more affluent areas. But, I believe one of the major factors may be the Desperate Housewife type of situation, including the extra marital affairs and the apparent rush to judgement phenomena (whether it is true or not). MOO Emotions have been high on both sides, and both NC and BC have taken a lot of criticism depending on which side of the fence you are. And finally, there are a lot of people who see the law enforcement work and the prosecution's case to be flawed and not showing enough evidence to have him on first degree charges of murder. Therefore, they don't support BC but are angry at the way the case was investigated and presented in court, along with the judicial concerns. I'm not stating this as a fact but my opinion on why BC has so many apparent "supporters." Again this is my opinion only and not necessarily my viewpoint of the case.

 

[Bottle Cap]

MissT, I've wondered about that as well. What is it about Brad Cooper that people feel so passionate about? Is it because the crime occurred in Cary? Would he garner the same support if it had happened in Raleigh? Or in Morrisville? Or how about if it happened in Youngsville or Clayton? Is it because the guy is super bright but then did some dumb things? You can't just say he was railroaded--you at least have to look at things Brad did that put him right where he is. And yes, he made several mistakes. Computer ones, lying, just to start. Is it because of Nancy? People secretly hate the victim? I can't figure it out. Cary PD just arrested an 18 yr old for multiple thefts--it's in the paper and on WRAL. Why is no one decrying that arrest as a "rush to judgment?" Heck it was in Cary, afterall. Where are the supporters for him?

I may have mentioned this before, but there is some interesting psychology surrounding victim blaming. (And here I do not mean WS'ers...rather, the other two sites that have been named.) Three theories -

Just World Hypothesis, in which the world is a just and good place, so if something happens to someone, they must have done something bad to deserve it.

Invulnerability Theory - People want to think they themselves are invulnerable (say, to murder) and therefore safe. Placing blame on a victim helps them protect that stance.

Attribution Error - more complicated (and IMHO, more likely what is happening on sites where vicious statements are posted): We all make attributions about other people's behavior. Some of their behaviors, we think, are down to their personal attributes - who they are. Other things we think about their behavior, we ascribe (consciously or unconsciously) to their environmental attributes. An attribution error is made when someone over-emphasizes personal characteristics (NC's role as a housewife rather than working mother, for example) and under-emphasizes environmental factors (NC's inability to legally work). A person's comments, i.e. the ugly Twitter comments about NC, actually say more about the person who is making an error in attribution than it does the victim.

 

[Palomine]

Yet, we must not forget that Kurtz said in opening statements that Brad admits to lying in his deposition. Maybe it's just me but if I were ever in a situation where I believed I was a suspect I would tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

having been in that situation the truth goes a long long way! you look suspicious if your not honest for what ever reason

 

[Shadow722]

Apparently the defense couldn't come with any other cards that you say were overlooked...besides wild claims of tampering....and Rosemary Zednik and Food Lion guy (whom I still don't believe knew NC from the meat dept at Food Lion...when HT and BJs were their main grocery stores)...who contradict each other on the jogging timeline. Both say they saw her around 7:10am-ish...in 2 different locations.

In an effort not to denigrate your valued and true opinion, let me offer the following:

It is not the defenses job to investigate crimes. Their job is to provide "reasonable doubt" to the actual evidence presented by the prosecution. The "wild claims of tampering", were strangely not disputed by the prosecution via vigorous cross examination (of JW) or via rebuttal.

it is not necessary for you to believe that the Food lion guy or RZ actually saw NC. The prosecution failed miserably to provide any evidence that NC was in fact dead, BEFORE 7 AM. Did they?????

 

[Maja]

Chris Coleman Verdict Watch: http://www.fox2now.com/news/livestreaming/

Hoping for a Cinco De Mayo Verict for both CC and BC.

 

[GhostCrab]

Personally, I've gotten worked up over this case because I think that it is a poor example of our due process. There are more and more innocent people put into prisons and jails every single day. That bothers me and I believe that it should bother all of us. Holding the police and the prosecutors under a microscope before they take away a person's freedoms should be normal and automatic in our society.

BZ and the rest of the prosecutors don't know anymore than I do if BC is guilty. I am certainly not going to trust them just because they INSIST on it and want me to believe it. I want evidence. I want more than gossip and hearsay and maybes and probablys. Yes, BC is a creep but there must of been SOMETHING redeeming about him. Why else would someone like NC have married him? You can read between the lines all day long and make assumptions based on past cases and your own histories, but for me, to put someone in jail I need google searches with VALID timestamps. JMO obviously.

 

[unknown403]

Personally, I've gotten worked up over this case because I think that it is a poor example of our due process. There are more and more innocent people put into prisons and jails every single day. That bothers me and I believe that it should bother all of us. Holding the police and the prosecutors under a microscope before they take away a person's freedoms should be normal and automatic in our society.

BZ and the rest of the prosecutors don't know anymore than I do if BC is guilty. I am certainly not going to trust them just because they INSIST on it and want me to believe it. I want evidence. I want more than gossip and hearsay and maybes and probablys. Yes, BC is a creep but there must of been SOMETHING redeeming about him. Why else would someone like NC have married him? You can read between the lines all day long and make assumptions based on past cases and your own histories, but for me, to put someone in jail I need google searches with valid timestamps. JMO obviously.

I think that's fair. I would suggest that means motive and opportunity come into play here coupled with a heavy amount of very circumstantial evidence. No one has video of this happening, having said that circumstantial evidence is just as damning.
BC can display qualities but they obviously are just for show. (read ex's affidivit)

 

[ncsu95]

And they see it as a travesty of justice that one judge declared him guilty and removed his kids from him months prior to him being charged with anything.

I certainly do. I said at the time that they shouldn't have taken his kids if they weren't going to charge him with the murder. That became moot a few weeks later. But as a dad, I was highly pissed about how his kids were taken from him.

 

[Skittles]

Heard that too. Didn't they say it met a request that was made?

They said it was "possibly a clue to the request" [for the 2-hour lunch]

 

[ohiogirl]

Does anyone remember the case in Reno? The Darren Mack one? He belonged to a group of men who got together to complain about the horrible treatment men received in divorce court regarding how much $$ they were ordered to pay for child support/alimony. He even tried to kill the judge that ordered his payment amount. This case reminds me of that one in that I have felt that the group on GOLO is a group such as this. Organized or not, I can see men jumping on this one because they are fed up with giving all their $$ to someone they don't like anymore, possibly hate. I work in a field were I talk to a lot of divorced men who consider it a travesty that they have to give their ex's and children anything. Once they are out of the house, they don't feel that she should be in control of any $$ that goes to child support even if they don't pay alimony.
The day when the jury was complaining about the public staring them down, I thought someone here had said they heard someone had organized a group to go to court that day. Anyone remember?

Understand, I am not complaining about any of the men on this board. I just got a feeling from the comments elsewhere that this may be some of it. jmo and all that jazz

 

[raisincharlie]

Apparently the defense couldn't come with any other cards that you say were overlooked...besides wild claims of tampering....and Rosemary Zednik and Food Lion guy (whom I still don't believe knew NC from the meat dept at Food Lion...when HT and BJs were their main grocery stores)...who contradict each other on the jogging timeline. Both say they saw her around 7:10am-ish...in 2 different locations.

The biggest problem I have with the Food Lion guy is he actually said it was about 5 minutes to 7 and he was 90% sure he saw Nancy. Upon a little proding from Mr. Kurtz who expanded that time to up to 10 minutes after 7, he himself began repeating it. This expansion of the time period and the willingness of the witness, who gave a differing time, leaves me thinking the 90% sure thing is a much lower probability than 90%.

What I am disppointed with is that the DA's office did not obtain his time card just to see what time he actually clocked in. But the defense didn't seem to be interested in it either and you can bet if it worked for them they would have produced it. The second thing is, no one even made an effort to determine if it was even possible Nancy could have been that far along on her jog had she even taken the most direct route to the location of the 90% sure sighting or even to Ms. Zednick's location. Seems to me since Carrie Clark was the current running partner, a reasonable estimate could have been made.

 

[cygnusx1]

Add to that the fact that CPD bought into the soccer mom/housewife theory of events immediately -- I'm still trying to figure out who planted the info in July '08 that BC bought bleach at 4am on the 12th -- and there is plenty of reasons to be concerned about justice not playing out the way it should.

Here you go...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2381729&highlight=bleach#post2381729

 

[Grammy Jean]

I would like to hear from a person who does not think BDI why you think Brad would ask DF to show him how he can check to see the time someone called him on his cell phone. Then he also told detectives later a friend had showed him how to check his cell phone for the time of a call. This is huge CE for me!