2011.06.11 Sidebar (Trial Day Sixteen)

[Leila]

I have no idea. I don't recall any mention of that during the trial, though. And I've been listening from start to finish every day, except a few hours yesterday. You would think LE tested the shovel, but perhaps that showed nothing, so was no reason to mention it in court. I would think it easy to clean a shovel, though. The metal scoop part wouldn't absorb decomp, so simple bleach would probably do the trick.

JMO

The shovel was tested by LE and if I recall correctly, the only thing found on the shovel was a hair that was determined to come from Brian Burner. So if the shovel was used by Casey and there was anything on it............she cleaned the shovel thoroughly. But, I can't see her doing that.

 

[Tuffy]

It's okay to "dwell" on this, I'm doing it myself. Let me say that I started out believing Casey was GUILTY as hell. I then moved along to disliking CA, GA, and LA, you saw the same videos I did, and I never lost my dislike for them. I saw the jailhouse tapes, and I gotta tell you hinky meter jumped out of the box and ran around the room.

Okay, we now are at trial. I am keeping an open mind, looking, listening, watching every day and every night. The more I see the less I see the evidence I would need to convict Casey. So, to answer your question, yes, I would rather let her walk free than convict her when I had a reasonable doubt, which I do, and that doubt seems to grow every day. EDITED - not the doubt that she's guilty, but the doubt that prosecution has proved she is.

Oh, emotionally, I know she did it - she lies, has from day 1. She slept around, a lot it seems. There is mayhem all around this group = BUT - I cannot see where the prosecution has tied Casey excusively to the murder of Caylee. With that in mind, I could NOT vote to convict.

1st bolded point: Something besides the evidence the state has presented makes you think Casey is guilty?

2nd bolded point: Do you think that someone else with access to Caylee might have killed Caylee, instead of Casey? If so, doesn't this conflict with your belief that Casey is guilty?

I guess my problem with your argument is that you seem to hold conflicting ideas. Or are you suggesting that you believe that Casey killed Caylee, and there is also equal evidence that someone else has killed Caylee.

Who might this other person with access to Caylee (and may have killed her) be?

 

[Cheewawa007]

I feel the fat lady is boarding the bus bound for Orlando... I feel she's going to sing possibly Wednesday and receive a standing ovation for her outstanding performance.

 

[Trident]

Interesting. One question - how do you figure the car into this scenerio? Are you not accepting all the people (including the experts) who have testified to the smell (along with the hair, the K-9 alert, the stain)?

I've tried time and time again to re-think this crime excluding ICA as the guilty party. I just can't get past the car.

I don't believe we can get past the car. Obviously it smelled like there was a dead body in the damned car. However, WHO put it there? DID ICA put it there? Is there any proof she did? If so, I haven't seen it. Casey did not have exclusive access to that car trunk. I don't even have exclusive access to my own car trunk, and no one else has the keys. Granted, she noticed the smell and did eventually leave the car at the check cashing place right next to the dumpster. Yes, she did! However, did she know the smell came from Caylee's body, if it did? What proof do we have that it did? I heard proof there was chloroform in the trunk, a hair with a death band, some dead maggots and flies in the "trash", but now that I really search my brain -
HELP ME OUT HERE -
I cannot remember any expert saying there was some kind of (death fluid?), other than cadaver wax on a paper towel in the "trash" bag. If someone did, point me to it, please, I can't remember any.

At any rate, nothing I know so far, other than Casey lies (and so do a few others), Casey allegedly took Caylee away from the grandparent's home, partied her fanny off, lied some more, then got dragged back and the rest is history via 911. Yes, Casey allegedly was the last person to see Caylee alive, but that doesn't mean it's true, or that she killed her.

Enough is enough. I could spend the rest of my life defending my doubts in order to be fair, and make no mistake I would be a fair juror. However, I will watch the trial, listen to the talking heads, read here, and hope the guilty party is convicted through evidence, not emotion, nor by guess or by gosh. We need guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before we take someone's life and freedom away from them, not just a body lounging in jail at the taxpayer's expense.

God, I am so long winded. Sorry.

 

[Tuffy]

The shovel was tested by LE and if I recall correctly, the only thing found on the shovel was a hair that was determined to come from Brian Burner. So if the shovel was used by Casey and there was anything on it............she cleaned the shovel thoroughly. But, I can't see her doing that.

She also had the shovel less than an hour according to testimony. I think he said about 40 minutes.

 

[Oakley]

Reading your post, something just popped in my mind. Does anyone else remember that when Casey was out on bond, JB requested that Casey be allowed to search for Caylee without being followed by LE or media? I don't recall exactly what was said, but I think he said he would accompany Casey on the searches.

I've always wondered what the defense was up to with that request. Did Casey want to return to the scene of the crime to make sure nothing was visible from the road?

I remember that too. And recently learned JB had actually filed a motion requesting just that. :waitasec:

 

[Emeralgem]

I do believe that they will be pizzled....majorly!

Personally, I cannot believe ALL this information is being withheld from the jurors..JMHO

 

[ThinkTank]

Don't know about the "I love you" but Cindy does appear to be giving Casey a signal as indicated in this post (more around the 2:00 mark):

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - What is Cindy A doing while trial watching?


Cindy undoubtedly loves her daughter. I have seen her mouth "I love you" to Casey before in court. Cindy's been pathetic at attempting to get Casey's attention. The real question for me is: would she lie to help her

I am convinced that Cindy is communicating with the Defense new attorney Lisabeth F. -- to convey messages to the Inmate. It looks to me like Cindy is making movements to catch the attention of Lisabeth while the other attorneys are at sidebar, and Cindy seems to signal something with her left hand that looks like a gesture for the #2 or #1 -- maybe to alert Lisabeth that Cindy has sent her a text or IM on her laptop? It is definitely a deliberate hand motion of some type.
I do not believe that the Inmate ever makes eye contact with Cindy.
I believe Cindy is communicating with Lisabeth F and Sims - maybe when Cindy thinks she has something important to interject about the current testimony? The previous video in this series for June 11, 2011, witness Ron Murdock is talking about the photos of the Anthony garage and sheds and KC and Caylee bedrooms .... so, I'm sure Cindy thinks she had something important to relay to the Inmate's defense team.

 

[wandering]

My opinion (which is worth less than nothing in the whole scheme of things) is that when we have one circumstantial fact that points to ICA more likely than anyone else and then add another circumstantial fact, and another, and another: You get the idea, right? There really is no reasonable doubt left.

The prosecution has not yet finished piling on the facts that point to ICA as the MOST LIKELY killer of this little child. I believe Caylee is speaking loud and clear.

Thanks to those who are doing the mock juror as I feel it is important to see what the jury may be thinking at this point. Let's reserve judgement until the prosecution is finished.

I would say wait for the defense, but I really feel they have nothing to offer.

I think the "mock jurors" should NOT be reading this message board. They've blown it already.

 

[katsclown]

My opinion (which is worth less than nothing in the whole scheme of things) is that when we have one circumstantial fact that points to ICA more likely than anyone else and then add another circumstantial fact, and another, and another: You get the idea, right? There really is no reasonable doubt left.

The prosecution has not yet finished piling on the facts that point to ICA as the MOST LIKELY killer of this little child. I believe Caylee is speaking loud and clear.

Thanks to those who are doing the mock juror as I feel it is important to see what the jury may be thinking at this point. Let's reserve judgement until the prosecution is finished.

I would say wait for the defense, but I really feel they have nothing to offer.

All I've seen the DT do is accentuate the state's case. I don't envision them doing any differently in their CIC.

JMO

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

I saw that show too. The thing about LP is he wants it both ways: his 30 years (or however long he says) experience is supposed to make people respect him, accept his expertise etc. But he's the guy who bailed Casey out when I believe most people could see all of Casey's lies for the lies they were. And imo most people already believed Caylee was dead.

So where does that leave LP's 30 years of experience??? His experience told him Casey had left Caylee with someone and they ran off with her and now Casey was afraid/embarrassed to tell people what happened. Say whaaattt???

As for Dr. Drew, I've never watched his show - his rehab show or his talk show on HLN. But in covering THIS case, he's out of his league. imo he and Joy Behar should leave the coverage to those with a law degree that know the history of the case. It seems to me he's jumping in when the trial begins and trying to hit the ground running. It's way too complicated with all Casey's lies and imaginary people for that to be possible.

Mark Eiglarsh is no 'grasshopper'. He's been around this case from the beginning. He's certainly not going to learn anything from LP. I think he sees LP for exactly what he is.....someone who enjoys the spotlight whether he has anything of value to say or not. moo

I remember watching LP in the beginning, before Casey even got out and I believe he really thought Casey had given Caylee away to someone. He didn't believe the Imaginanny kidnapping business, but even then I wasn't totally sure that Caylee was dead...at that time I could buy that Casey gave her away.

As for Dr. Drew and Joy Behar, I don't either of them chose to cover the trial, I think they were told to. The ratings on the other HLN shows must be through the roof for the 24 hour coverage HLN is giving. Dr. Drew is okay with me, but they should leave Joy Behar out of it, I don't even watch her segments about the trial.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Honestly I think the borrowing the shovel was all fake. This guy was usually not home but on vacation and I think she just knocked on the door to see if he was there and if nobody was home she was going to steal the gas out of his shed. When he answered the door the first thing that popped into her head was borrow a shovel.

 

[Quiche]

It's okay to "dwell" on this, I'm doing it myself. Let me say that I started out believing Casey was GUILTY as hell. I then moved along to disliking CA, GA, and LA, you saw the same videos I did, and I never lost my dislike for them. I saw the jailhouse tapes, and I gotta tell you hinky meter jumped out of the box and ran around the room.

Okay, we now are at trial. I am keeping an open mind, looking, listening, watching every day and every night. The more I see the less I see the evidence I would need to convict Casey. So, to answer your question, yes, I would rather let her walk free than convict her when I had a reasonable doubt, which I do, and that doubt seems to grow every day. EDITED - not the doubt that she's guilty, but the doubt that prosecution has proved she is.

Oh, emotionally, I know she did it - she lies, has from day 1. She slept around, a lot it seems. There is mayhem all around this group = BUT - I cannot see where the prosecution has tied Casey excusively to the murder of Caylee. With that in mind, I could NOT vote to convict.

She acknowledged the smell of death in her car to her friend-- she drove around with her baby's corpse in her car, fgs. There is so much evidence about KC's involvement, it's hard to comprehend it all, imo.

 

[Trident]

You are not convinced that Caylee's decomposing body was ever in the trunk of ICA's car?

I believe a body was in there, probably Caylee, but I see no proof Casey put it there. Proof being the operative word. Casey was not the only person who had access to that car trunk. Is it possible GA, LA, the guy next door put it there? I really don't know who put it there, or when, except for the 2.6 day thingee which I can't find right now.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I feel the fat lady is boarding the bus bound for Orlando... I feel she's going to sing possibly Wednesday and receive a standing ovation for her outstanding performance.

First coffee spit of the day. Well done, Cheewawa! :floorlaugh:

 

[Emeralgem]

I don't believe we can get past the car. Obviously it smelled like there was a dead body in the damned car. However, WHO put it there? DID ICA put it there? Is there any proof she did? If so, I haven't seen it. Casey did not have exclusive access to that car trunk. I don't even have exclusive access to my own car trunk, and no one else has the keys. Granted, she noticed the smell and did eventually leave the car at the check cashing place right next to the dumpster. Yes, she did! However, did she know the smell came from Caylee's body, if it did? What proof do we have that it did? I heard proof there was chloroform in the trunk, a hair with a death band, some dead maggots and flies in the "trash", but now that I really search my brain -
HELP ME OUT HERE -
I cannot remember any expert saying there was some kind of (death fluid?), other than cadaver wax on a paper towel in the "trash" bag. If someone did, point me to it, please, I can't remember any.

At any rate, nothing I know so far, other than Casey lies (and so do a few others), Casey allegedly took Caylee away from the grandparent's home, partied her fanny off, lied some more, then got dragged back and the rest is history via 911. Yes, Casey allegedly was the last person to see Caylee alive, but that doesn't mean it's true, or that she killed her.

Enough is enough. I could spend the rest of my life defending my doubts in order to be fair, and make no mistake I would be a fair juror. However, I will watch the trial, listen to the talking heads, read here, and hope the guilty party is convicted through evidence, not emotion, nor by guess or by gosh. We need guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before we take someone's life and freedom away from them, not just a body lounging in jail at the taxpayer's expense.

God, I am so long winded. Sorry.

Well, the very fact she didn't call her father, brother, pull into a service station or have a car service person investigate what the smell was or where the smell was coming from I'm going to assume she knew her deceased daughter was in the trunk and she is the one who put her there.

 

[wandering]

I remember watching LP in the beginning, before Casey even got out and I believe he really thought Casey had given Caylee away to someone. He didn't believe the Imaginanny kidnapping business, but even then I wasn't totally sure that Caylee was dead...at that time I could buy that Casey gave her away.

As for Dr. Drew and Joy Behar, I don't either of them chose to cover the trial, I think they were told to. The ratings on the other HLN shows must be through the roof for the 24 hour coverage HLN is giving. Dr. Drew is okay with me, but they should leave Joy Behar out of it, I don't even watch her segments about the trial.

I don't watch any of those TH shows, including NG. Some are using that precious little girl to gain viewership. I had quit watching the trial, but a poster here said I should do it for Caylee, so I do tune in periodically, depending on what's up that day. I just pray for justice for that sweet baby, and the jurors, who must observe the horror of it all.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I feel the fat lady is boarding the bus bound for Orlando... I feel she's going to sing possibly Wednesday and receive a standing ovation for her outstanding performance.

Post of the day! :floorlaugh:

 

[wandering]

She acknowledged the smell of death in her car to her friend-- she drove around with her baby's corpse in her car, fgs. There is so much evidence about KC's involvement, it's hard to comprehend it all, imo.

ITA. Move on...

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I believe a body was in there, probably Caylee, but I see no proof Casey put it there. Proof being the operative word. Casey was not the only person who had access to that car trunk. Is it possible GA, LA, the guy next door put it there? I really don't know who put it there, or when, except for the 2.6 day thingee which I can't find right now.

Casey in her own words says she was driving the car and she has never said it was out of her possession. Nobody has claimed anyone else drove that car or stuck a key in any of the locks on it.