2011.06.17 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-One)

[SarahEcho]

I think she'll get manslaughter and a 15 year sentence, personally.

I think i'm like minded with you, it seems like the compromise position of what to do when it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck but you have reasonable doubt it is a duck.

 

[dsntslp]

I thought everybody was making cloud figures too.
I couldn't see anything in the stain on a regular computer monitor so I blew it up on the big screen TV and the image is now forever seared into my brain, ugh.

I definitely 'see' the image and what appears to be the outline of four little fingers

If you haven't blown JRW's (correct nic?) outlines up on a huge TV I would encourage you to do so as long as it won't affect you too much.

 

[MissJames]

If chloroform levels were so high AND the body was bagged how likely is it that insects would survive - in a closed environment? really? I would like a scientist/chemist someone to answer that question....

:waitasec:

 

[Themis]

If chloroform levels were so high AND the body was bagged how likely is it that insects would survive - in a closed environment? really? I would like a scientist/chemist someone to answer that question....

Sorry, I'm not a chemist so I can't have a professional opinion on anything. :floorlaugh:

 

[Chiquita71]

:tyou: Chiquita 71
First, during voir dire, Juror # 4 stated she couldn't judge anyone. JA tried a challenge (for cause I think) and HHJB denied it.
Second, once the trial began, Juror # 4 did not take notes during the prosecution's case in chief (or very few).
Third, once the defense case in chief began, Juror # 4 had notepad and pen at the ready and is taking notes.
Fourth, it doesn't really even take a reasonable doubt to derail a case. All it takes is one juror who will not vote guilty for any reason (either an unwillingness to judge or out of fear of the potential sentence) and others who will not vote for acquittal. I think we have that here.
That equals a hung jury and a mistrial. I think the State would probably try it again on the charges that are still within the statute of limitations. At that juncture between trials would be the perfect time for ICA to try to plead to something lesser and a sentence with a cap.

Themis :tyou:

:wave: Yeah, and this is the juror I most connected with, I feel I totally understood what she was talking about. When she was asked what she had heard others say, she said she does not like to judge people based on what others had to say. I know exactly what she means, if I am getting her meaning I could be wrong but the news might be wrong too.

I understand the whole not wanting to give the DP. I agreed with juror number four when she said that: and I now think Casey should get the death penalty.

But I will be fine with LWOP. She has to get like 30 years for all the other stuff, right? No matter what she is not walking out of the jail when this is over. I swear Casey is sitting there waiting for it to be over so she can go...

Thank you again Themis for that information. I just used your post to make mine so there was a reference regarding this juror. :blowkiss:

:twocents:
:twocents:

 

[Etilema]

one more thing: It seems obvious that Caylee was wrapped outside of the trunk as opposed to while lying in the trunk...because the single hair and the single fly leg probably fell off one of the garbage bags as opposed to falling directly off of Caylee. That might also explain why the grass died in A's back yard and why they dogs hit on those areas.

And this may have taken place in the dark of night, if we accept the idea that George wasn't telling the truth about seeing Casey and Caylee on the 16th (in clothes that she wasn't found in), and that there was actually a big fight with Cindy on the 15th.

 

[LCoastMom]

IDK, I think the state has a clear timeline on George being at the towyard, and when he actually went to work that day. Cindy was the one who had the most time and access to the car after she left work that day.

I'm beginning to think ICA attempted to clean the car before she ditched it, at one of those free standing car wash/vacuuming centers.

That would have removed the "early colonizers" but not the stain or the odor. Neither GA nor Simon Birch said the trunk had "hundreds" of dead flies.

 

[Velouria]

On a side note, it gets on my nerves the way this CJ on IS talks. Like she ALWAYS has to show her teeth. Grrrr

Cement, you may not care for the way she says it, but I usually love what she says. Casey Jordan and Beth Karas are the only reasons I still tune it to TTV.

 

[realdeal]

I agree. HHJP should not have made that statement, because IMHO I believe before the end of this case JB will IN FACT be doing circus tricks in the middle of the courtroom to match the circus like atmosphere.

Yep, it would not surprise me at all to see JB doing a headstand, or riding out on a unicycle.

 

[TiaM]

I agree!! I had a maggot infestation in my under sink kitchen rug years ago. We went on vaca for a week in July and returned to a closed house that was also hot! My kids were younger then and in and out the door playing all the time and apparently flies had laid eggs in the rug while we were away. It was the grossest thing I've ever seen!!! (and I was a much better housekeeper back when the kids were at home than I am now, LOL!)

Had I been at home doing my housekeeping on the reg like shaking rugs and vacuuming, it probably wouldn't have happened. a lesson learned for a younger WM:floorlaugh:

sorry all for the gross story......:waitasec:

wm

ETA I hadn't thought of this story for years til today's testimony!

I see your gross story and raise you one.

Been so busy with the trial I haven't had time to tell this:

2 weeks ago tomorrow, I had to take an item back to Walmart. When I got to the Customer Service counter there were 3 registers open, but only 2 employees at those registers. They each had customers. The rest of us had formed a single line up to the point where the next customer in line would then go to whichever register would open up. I was the second person in that line and there was a woman with an approx. 4 year old boy in front of me.

Suddenly, after about a minute, I smelled a pretty bad smell. Thought maybe someone had a bit of gas. Then it got worse, and stayed. I thought perhaps the boy had an accident. The woman and boy then moved up to the middle register, I was still waiting. The smell was even worse. Began to get embarrassed and hoped no one thought it was me!

I paid more attention to a woman at the first register, because I was next. She was taking a long time and arguing (but not loudly) with the cust service rep. 2 other employees were behind her - 1 being a manager. One of those employees was the one that should have been operating the 3rd register. I noticed he was removing 2 large packages of chicken and ground beef and double bagging it.

This woman had actually left that bag containing the chicken and beef IN HER CAR overnight (it had been in the mid-upper 90's all that week) and wanted Walmart to refund her money because she said "the meat was bad to begin with"!! Finally she left, but the manager and the other employees got out Clorox wipes and spray and wiped and sprayed down the whole area.

Dear lord, if those 2 packages smelled that bad after 1 night/day in her car, I can only imagine what ICA's car smelled like after several days of a human being. GAG. :sick:

(sorry to tell this during lunch).

 

[JackieO]

We have all heard how obessive "clean" and neat freaks GA and CA are. We can tell by just looking at the home videos they are. So with that being said, when one cleans a car me thinks they also clean/vacuum the trunk. I do when I vacuum my vehicle.

I agree. If Cindy took Casey's clothes and Caylee's things out of the car to clean, I can certainly seeher finishing the job and attempting to clean the trunk. She would have wanted the source of smell removed ASAP, especially since she didn't know when Casey would show up to do it. No one wants flies and maggots in their garage, much less a clean freak. Besides, nurses are trained to take care of a problem immediately.

 

[darnudes]

I have see the pic and didn't see anything more than a stain. If Caylee were in two bags you wouldn't see any outline of her body anyway. The stain may just be her approximate size but I doubt you can see things like head outline, limbs, etc. It doesn't matter anyway, it's there and it was her. The SA has already shown that.

Caylee probably wasn't bagged until the next day.

 

[jojomonkey]

I hate to say it, but you may be right. I just don't have a good feeling about any of it...there is too much the State left out. I wish the jury knew all of the evidence, because I'm certain they would convict her in a New York minute.

She'll be convicted. That SA isn't "done" yet. They still have their crosses and rebuttal, then closing statements. They know what they are doing IMO. They couldn't introduce everything because it would have allowed JB to dissect it in cross exam. IMO they have to save things for rebuttal and closing to make a bigger impact.

 

[Themis]

If you have one juror who will not deliberate, can the judge remove them and put in an alternate?

It could be juror misconduct, but even that results in a mistrial. They won't know that until the jury delivers their verdict so I don't know how the Judge would have any opportunity to replace such a juror.

 

[MissJames]

This is a good witness for the defense.

:Welcome1:

But, IMO ,he won't be after the State does cross.

 

[momtective]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, didn't the witness say he knew of no way to clean decomp from carpets and that usually the carpets are disposed of?
Okay, so I wonder what this guy uses? http://www.human-decomposition-cleanup.com/

I have completed over 100 human decomposition cleanup jobs in the past 9 years.

Usually I can thoroughly remove, clean, and disinfect soiled areas within 1 day. But, I like to ask for 2 days in case I need more time. Some time I must remove part of a floor or part of a wall. There have been times when I needed to cut floors and then a ceiling, but these are rare. Decomposition on a second floor requires more work, in any case. human decomposition cleanup should be handled professionally.

 

[Scamperoo]

After the Operations Manager at Johnson's towing tossed the trash over the fence and before he retrieved the bag and later deposited it in the large on-site dumpster, did he see any Maggots, Bugs, Larvae or Pupae? Did he see a stain...if not then ICA probably did an initial cleaning out of the car, in A's garage, and used their vacuum. This was probably followed by tossing the residue from the vacuum and the car at the Amscot dumpster. Then she left the car to be towed.

CA may very well have just tried to get rid of the smell.

If Tow Truck manger saw the stain...he might be able to say more about it. But, with Caylee being triple bagged and laundry bagged, too...a good guess would be that very little bodily fluids dripped into the trunk and onto the liner. So possibly there was very little stain to see, anyway.

I still wonder why Amy isn't recalled to testify to her text to Casey about Casey taking her duct tape.

George himself testified to a stain in the trunk that wasn't there before.

 

[MissDiva]

Yep, it would not surprise me at all to see JB doing a headstand, or riding out on a unicycle.

I suppose everyone's gotta be good at *something*, so maybe one of those two things is it.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I'm taking the day off from the Casey trial, and I'll tell you why. I haven't watched TV or livestream coverage, and this is the first time that I've visited WS today. I am still seething about Baez sneaking in the little tidbit about Lee as Caylee's father. His "question" to the FBI witness was totally disingenuous as he knows that Caylee's paternity has not been introduced into evidence. He could have asked the witness first, "Were you asked during your investigation to do a paternity test on Caylee's DNA?" Yes or No answer and giving SA time to object to what they'd assume was coming next. Instead, Baez let the horse out of the barn when he asked, "Were you asked to test Caylee's DNA to determine if Lee was the father?" Judge told jury to disregard the question, but JB knows that they heard it. What a (unusual person)! :furious:

Carpe diem.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I don't believe any fluids leaked out of that bag till the very last when Casey was taking her out to dump her. I think a body part poked through the bag.