2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

[m00c0w]

Where's the skittles?

Possibly still in his pockets. The ME or the assistant said something to the effect of the can fell out of his hoodie while first aid was being rendered and it was just put there. IIRC.

 

[beach]

This is getting really petty in here.

We've left this thread open. Are you guys letting me know it is time to close it now?

 

[iluvmua]

Not sure how you got that from my post, but NO! I don't think GZ would have gotten out of his car if he didn't have a gun. I am saying that when you carry a gun, you have a responsibility to NOT put yourself in a position to have to make that decision. He had no business getting out, following or confronting him.

it's not illegal getting out of your car
it's not illegal to follow someone

He was asking him a question about what he was doing in the neighborhood.

I don't think he had a choice since TM was bashing his head in.

What is he supposed to do? wait until he's 99.9 % dead before he fires his gun?

 

[beach]

Over the past few days I have seen conspiracy scenarios about falsifying of medical reports, the ME report, and now the police.

It is fine to speculate but when you start saying things like "it is clear what is going on here", that is no longer speculating - that is accusatory.

CUT IT OUT NOW. Anymore statements like that better have a factual link to back up such a serious accusations.

We are NOT going to slander the health care providers, law enforcement or anyone else without PROOF to back up such serious accusations. These people have families and careers. Knock it off.

 

[LambChop]

This is getting really petty in here.

We've left this thread open. Are you guys letting me know it is time to close it now?

Sorry, Beach. I don't remember what I posted but I'm sure it was inappropriate. I'll try and be more thoughtful. Thanks

 

[gxm]

I really hope this get thrown out.

This is not a 2nd degree murder case nor a manslaughter case.

I will be shocked if It does go to trial.

I agree. Seeing the doc dump, it makes sense why SPD hadn't charged GZ. There's just no evidence to refute his story. My fear is that he's already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion and getting a fair trial is pretty much impossible at this point.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

 

[howitis]

i posted this on the other thread about the 911 voices, but if a suspicious person takes off you need to see what area he fled to, so you can help the police, remember GZ could have confronted TM but kept his distance and called police, he only wanted to see where he went for obvious reasons,
this was the post:

Well it could be either one or even both
this is 4 of the many possibles
1. GZ calling for help when seeing stars
2. GZ calling for help when fearing loss of control of the gun
3. TM mocking GZ's call for help (very common human trait)
4. TM calling for help when he realizes he's losing control over the gun

the only thing that matters in this case is who attacked who..

there's 100 million plus misunderstandings or arguments every day in this country but
when someone try's to kill another person that person is now a serious criminal
and that's what the rumor says TM did, trying to fracture a skull is
an attempt to kill the other person, whether they realize it or not

trayvon could have ran backwards home if he wanted, even if backed into a corner TM could easily
get by GZ, if he was scared he would have went home but he wasn't scared and chose to stop(or hide/doubleback)
and confront GZ

that's got to be a fact (according to the rumor evidence we have all heard), i have no doubt all GZ was doing was trying
to see where he was or going so he didn't look like a total idiot when cops asked where the suspicious person went

 

[beach]

I agree. Seeing the doc dump, it makes sense why SPD hadn't charged GZ. There's just no evidence to refute his story. My fear is that he's already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion and getting a fair trial is pretty much impossible at this point.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

Not to worry. 2 words - Casey Anthony.

 

[wowitsdark]

The only person who had control over the incident that night was GZ. He had a choice to stay with the car, as directed, or get out and follow.
....
It was a gamble at best for GZ to get out of his car.

I don't think anyone has ever answered me when I have asked this, so if you know the answer, I would appreciate some direction here.

When was GZ directed to stay with the car? Did it occur while he was still in the the car? "Stay" to me indicates that he was *with* the vehicle and they told him to *remain* with the vehicle.

In hindsight, because of the way things ended up, it is easy to Monday Morning Quarterback and say that it was a poor decision for him to exit the vehicle.

If, however, TM had been someone with a gun and had murdered someone around the corner, or broken into a condo and raped someone or abducted a child, people would be complaining that he was too chicken to get out and keep tabs on the criminal and clamoring for laws that protect watchmen who intervene.

 

[wowitsdark]

So they took a picture of the can to document for the record that it was windy?????? How do they know under normal conditions with a body lying in the elements that the victim will have a can of soda handy to "hold down the tarp"? I think it is more than obvious what was going on with this picture. jmo

Or perhaps it was better seen in a photograph up against the bright yellow background than in the grass...

 

[Dr.Fessel]

i posted this on the other thread about the 911 voices, but if a suspicious person takes off you need to see what area he fled to, so you can help the police, remember GZ could have confronted TM but kept his distance and called police, he only wanted to see where he went for obvious reasons,
this was the post:

Well it could be either one or even both
this is 4 of the many possibles
1. GZ calling for help when seeing stars
2. GZ calling for help when fearing loss of control of the gun
3. TM mocking GZ's call for help (very common human trait)
4. TM calling for help when he realizes he's losing control over the gun

the only thing that matters in this case is who attacked who..

there's 100 million plus misunderstandings or arguments every day in this country but
when someone try's to kill another person that person is now a serious criminal
and that's what the rumor says TM did, trying to fracture a skull is
an attempt to kill the other person, whether they realize it or not

trayvon could have ran backwards home if he wanted, even if backed into a corner TM could easily
get by GZ, if he was scared he would have went home but he wasn't scared and chose to stop(or hide/doubleback)
and confront GZ

that's got to be a fact (according to the rumor evidence we have all heard), i have no doubt all GZ was doing was trying
to see where he was or going so he didn't look like a total idiot when cops asked where the suspicious person went

Or stuff that Zimmerman was telling the 911 operator was not true. The clubhouse video should help along with George's statement. It has been implied that he lied in a statement and said Martin circled his car and beat his head repeatedly on the cement. It will be good to see all the evidence.

 

[Sherbie]

Regarding the drink can, if it was with the body prior to resuscitation efforts, it may have been placed atop it afterward simply for purposes of photo-documenting where it was found.

 

[pcrum12]

It might depend on the angle of his pocket opening.

If the reports that TM was on top of GZ are accurate, the weight of the can itself might have been 'gravitized' (Made that word up!) downward, forcing it deeper in his pocket.

During CPR he would have been on his back, an angle at which it might have more easily slid out.

Just jumping off your post. In reference to the can, I did read in one of the ofc reports that after they turned TM over they noticed the gunshot wound. And when they raised his sweatshirt the can was in the front pocket.

 

[sleonardelli]

But there has been no proof offered yet that he continued to follow? I understand that many people believe he did but that doesn't make it so. I'm trying very hard to stick to facts that are out there so I wanted to be sure there had been nothing released that proved one way or the other.

As far as NW, if he was going to Target, I see nothing wrong with him carrying. He was doing it legally. While I wouldn't necessarily personally have tried to follow a stranger to see where they were headed, once again I don't believe it is illegal to do so.

The GF (ear witness) indicated Trayvon told her "He's getting close" before Trayvon asked GZ "Why are you following me" and GZ asked "What are you doing here". Then, she says she heard Trayvon say something like "Get off get off". http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...nd-on-what-she-heard-on-the-phone#pl-68832490 ((1:42)

 

[wowitsdark]

I understand that but it matters not in this case. The dispatcher specifically told him that they didn't need him to do that. Logic and common sense would tell any person that that means to stop following and/or running after him. Nobody can disagree that GZ should have stayed in his truck to wait for the real police to do their own job.

This is not the first time that GZ had followed or pursued someone in his desperate attempt to act like LE, which he is clearly not.

I disagree.

When someone tells someone that they don't *need* something, it doesn't mean that they don't *want* it or that it's unnecessary or that to proceed would be unwelcome.

My tired teenager was about to unload the dishwasher for me, and I said, "You don't need to do that."

Heck, it wasn't that it would be *unwelcome*. It was just that I felt that I could handle it better than he could.

He saw that I had a to-do list a mile long and said, "I can do it - it's not a problem."

GZ was present, in the neighborhood where a suspicious-looking stranger had just turned a corner.

Unless I am remembering incorrectly, GZ had not announced to the dispatcher that TM had turned a corner and disappeared from view. GZ just continued his description of what he was seeing as he commenced to move from his vehcile and walk towards the cut-through area.

GZ's eyes were on the situation, and he was in a better position to know what would be helpful to the policemen than a dispatcher who was just receiving remote information.

On a *typical* evening, GZ would have first seen TM while afoot, not from his vehicle. If that had been the case - that he was out walking his dog and continued to walk in the direction where TM had disappeared - would *that* have been a violation?

 

[Isabelle]

No it was likely broken. Let's not change the wording on the doc report now.

Has Zimmerman's medical and EMT/Rescue reports been released?

 

[sleonardelli]

I guess you've never been sucker punched. I have. It gives your attacker the advantage. (Not that mine needed one as a 10-year could take me down.) I was unable to get my bearings, defend myself or break free after the first punch. My SIL had the same thing happen to him, sucker punched in a bar. Unlike me, he is a large person and packs a powerful punch but he went down hard, breaking his ankle, game over.

If GZ had started the fight, i.e., thrown the first punch, then TM would have had some mark on him. And, FTR, if GZ had his "azz handed to him" then you are making the defense's case. GZ was physically attacked by TM and in fear for his life: self defense.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

The GF (ear witness) indicated Trayvon told her "He's getting close" before Trayvon asked GZ "Why are you following me" and GZ asked "What are you doing here". Then, she says she heard Trayvon say something like "Get off get off". http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...nd-on-what-she-heard-on-the-phone#pl-68832490 (1:42) Could these be GZ attempting to "detain" Trayvon.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

I was just saying it would never happen. I don't think it was an issue of "fighting off" TM. I think it was an issue of keeping TM from getting away and TM ticked him off because GZ lost control. Bang, you're dead. jmo

Well OK --There you have it ! Silly to "think" any differently--


Respectfully, this is the kind of discussion eventually this case breaks down to. No facts--but everybody "thinks"( definitively) GZ killed Treyvon because he was ticked off and a racist ....or Treyvon Martin was a Young that was asking for it. What happens to critical thinking and objectivity.

There is no Grey!

 

[jaded cat]

The bag in that pic looks like it came from Walmart, not 7-11. No idea where it came from, or why it's considered evidence. Certainly does not look like the bag the 7-11 clerk put the "tea" in.

What is the deal with "tea"? That's exactly what it a was, a non alcoholic drink in a can made by the Arizona Iced Tea company. If you've looked at the TM 7-11 video, this bag is clearly the same one the clerk handed him and TM put the can in it in full view of the camera.

There's no need to create drama where no exists.

 

[RR0004]

How is it you shoot someone from 3 feet away...directly into their chest...and it's not considered a crime?
Who provoked who? TM was just walking home.
I guess I'm missing something.

PS- GZ was close enough supposedly to say he thought TM looked high. Wasn't it dark?