4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

[ChatteringBirds]

This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.

abcnews.go.com

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Media Thread/No Discussion

Probable Cause Affidavit

Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)

Moscow ID Police Department Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

• Telephone: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN REMINDER:

It is okay for members to discuss Visual Snow Syndrome because it was referenced by BK himself in his social media. Also, iirc, a BK family member had referred to him having or possibly having OCD. Those two conditions may be discussed because they are sourced to the accused himself and to his family members.

What members can not discuss are other random mental health conditions beyond those specified above. None of us is in a position to diagnose the mental health of a person we have never met. Introducing various and sundry, potential diagnoses only serves to derail the thread with opinions, debate, unrelated personal anecdotes, etc that may end up not being remotely related to this case.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

To clarify ...

While it is true that members do not need to provide a link every single time to something that is common knowledge, IF a member requests a link, it is WS policy and common courtesy to provide one.

ETA: Some posts have been removed due to bickering. We are always fortunate to have Verified members, and NOBODY wants to be responsible for driving a verified member away from Websleuths. If you disagree with a Verified member, do so politely or not at all or there will be a loss of posting privileges.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

DM is a victim in this matter and a witness. Questioning her credibility or potential testimony is not victim friendly.

Could we please move on from speculation that DM perhaps did not really see what she saw.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Speculation must be based on some known fact. Posts about a confidential informant are not based on known fact and it is at times being stated as fact.

Many posts have been removed. Please move on from that discussion.

 

[RANCH]

No they don't. The affidavit is to interview BF, which they haven't done. They've read what she told police, I'm sure, but that doesn't mean they're not entitled to speak with her.

You might also want to read this.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050423%20Motion%20to%20Compel%20Discovery.pdf

Clearly, they don't have the evidence. They have information about it, but that isn't the same as having it or analyzing it.

MOO

Did the defense ask for a speedy trial? It looks like they want all of the States evidence right away.

 

[jepop]

Does a jury always need a large amount of physical evidence like blood, hair, fibers so on, that connects the defendant to a crime in order to convict?

IMO, the Jury will be asked to decide if there is /isn't reasonable doubt based on the totality of the circumstantial evidence after having assessed each piece of that evidence. Until trial we won't probably get to see all that evidence, or exactly how it fits together. We may get more of an idea of the nature and quality of the evidence we have a glimpse of so far at the PH.MOO

 

[jepop]

So the defense already has the exculpatory evidence and they can use it in court.

Not that we know of, it's all suggestion at this point. MOO

 

[jepop]

MOO do you think not finding victim blood in his apartment is going to be a problem?

Put it this way, the defendant had a long time to clean up his appartment, the defendant had the capability to understand about physical evidence. That is the the sort of thing the prosecution will be conveying to a jury if the physical evidence is scant, as I believe it is likely to be. MOO

 

[jepop]

Did the defense ask for a speedy trial? It looks like they want all of the States evidence right away.

Defense waived speedy Preliminary hearing, then both sides checked their calendars and agreed to end of June. MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Did the defense ask for a speedy trial? It looks like they want all of the States evidence right away.

They did waive the right to a speedy trial. But he was arrested in late December. It's now May and this is the defense's 3rd request for some of this information, I believe.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Put it this way, the defendant had a long time to clean up his appartment, the defendant had the capability to understand about physical evidence. That is the the sort of thing the prosecution will be conveying to a jury if the physical evidence is scant, as I believe it is likely to be. MOO

And the defense will say you can't prove a negative. No blood evidence found means no blood evidence found. Everything else is speculation. It'll be interesting to see what the brake pedals in the car show. IMO, that's one area that I doubt someone like BK would have thought of.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

But it's not a mountain of molehills. There are real holes in the case, from what we know thus far, that the prosecution has to answer. Ignoring them isn't going to help their case. JMO.

100%, and IMO another thing that won't help the prosecution's case is failing to respond to discovery requests in a timely fashion as required by court rules. Combine that with the Brady/Giglio issue (whatever it is... but I've got my spitballs ready), the potential exculpatory evidence on two points cited in the motion to compel in addition to BF's potential testimony, and the holes in the case, and IMO there are some issues here.

Love this, must have been my turn today ha ha - I always read your posts as you write so well & appear to have such a fantastic grasp on aspects of this case that I find baffling.

Thank you. It's nice to come out here and see something nice written to me I think this case is baffling, and that's why I keep moving the pieces around looking for congruence. When BK was arrested and I read the PCA, I thought LE had found the right guy, but then the warrants started dropping, and even with redactions, I could see there was a lot of probable cause that factored into those warrants, and that's when my research began. Of course, without the underlying affidavits, there are leaps I can't make, but there sure are questions I can ask... and I have a lot of them.

I have a feeling that there is a lot going on behind the scenes and we are not privy to a lot of information but with Brady and Giglio that is not explained, prosecution not turning lots of evidence to the defense I am injected with the dose of reasonable doubt I just cannot get rid of.

I am definitely in agreement re the above, but bad news on the DNA - I was just citing from the article I shared, didn't really dig in at all, and no one said there would be math on WS

 

[jepop]

realistically, as a murderer he made some mistakes, not an awful lot of mistakes but some serious enough to put him on radar.
His DNA on the button of the sheath being the most serious.

BUT, lets look at how adept he was in his task too.
Let's look at his education and training, his prior exposure to the elements of criminology, basically the entire internet of resources.

they allegedly did not find his VANS and the Van footprint was described as 'light'

this suggests to me that he may have placed plastic bags over his shoes, perhaps more than one bag for each length of his journey to his vehicle and a completely different pair of plastic bags for his drive to wherever he went on his way home, possibly somewhere to stash or destroy all evidence of his night's handiwork.

every description of him I heard described him as pedantic.

i can imagine him planning on the destruction of evidence point by point.
well in advance of his macabre mass murder.
I'm not remotely surprised that no victim blood was found in his apartment.

He'd also be pretty well versed in the use of chemicals for the purpose of destroying evidence and he did actually have an awful lot of time.

JMO

These are important points to raise IMO. The prosecution could and would, IMO, present some theory to potentially explain a lack of and/or scant physical evidence to support other circumstantial evidence. IMO prosecution will seek to present to a jury some plausible explanation as any lack will be pointed out and utilised by defense. In conjunction with the totality of circumstantial evidence, it will be up to a jury to decide how plausibly any potential prosecution theory fits in with the rest. MOO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

They did waive the right to a speedy trial. But he was arrested in late December. It's now May and this is the defense's 3rd request for some of this information, I believe.

Right to a speedy trial is separate and apart from discovery rules.

Criminal court rules re discovery

I.C.R. 16. Discovery and Inspection | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

(f) Response to Request, Failure to File a Response.

(1) Response to Request. The attorney or defendant on whom a request has been served must file and serve a written response within 14 days of service of the request ...

(2) Failure to Comply. Unless otherwise ordered by the court on a showing of good cause or excusable neglect, the failure to file and serve a response within the time required by this rule constitutes a waiver of any objections to the request and is grounds for the imposition of sanctions by the court.

Idaho Rules of Professional Conduct: https://isb.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/irpc.pdf

ABA Special Responsibilities of a Prosecutor, Rules of Professional Conduct:

Rule 3.8: Special Responsibilities of a Prosecutor

Advocate | The prosecutor in a criminal case shall: (a) refrain from prosecuting a charge that the prosecutor knows is not supported by probable cause; (b) make reasonable efforts to assure that the accused has been advised of the right to, and the procedure for obtaining, counsel and has been...

www.americanbar.org

 

[kittythehare]

These are important points to raise IMO. The prosecution could and would, IMO, present some theory to potentially explain a lack of and/or scant physical evidence to support other circumstantial evidence. IMO prosecution will seek to present to a jury some plausible explanation as any lack will be pointed out and utilised by defense. In conjunction with the totality of circumstantial evidence, it will be up to a jury to decide how plausibly any potential prosecution theory fits in with the rest. MOO

i was watching @Tricia 's U tube earlier, it's worth a watch.
She had a really clear video of a traffic stop a few weeks before he allegedly killed everyone.
A simple traffic stop and he over questioned the most patient female cop that stopped him..
he was looking up at her at times as if he was utterly sincere, giving too much information as if he was chatting her up and asking pedantic q's about the law.
He had more time and better access to the law than she had, he still strung it out..

Dude is very very sharp.

 

[jepop]

Right to a speedy trial is separate and apart from discovery rules.

Criminal court rules re discovery

I.C.R. 16. Discovery and Inspection | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

(f) Response to Request, Failure to File a Response.

(1) Response to Request. The attorney or defendant on whom a request has been served must file and serve a written response within 14 days of service of the request ...

(2) Failure to Comply. Unless otherwise ordered by the court on a showing of good cause or excusable neglect, the failure to file and serve a response within the time required by this rule constitutes a waiver of any objections to the request and is grounds for the imposition of sanctions by the court.

Idaho Rules of Professional Conduct: https://isb.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/irpc.pdf

ABA Special Responsibilities of a Prosecutor, Rules of Professional Conduct:

Rule 3.8: Special Responsibilities of a Prosecutor

Advocate | The prosecutor in a criminal case shall: (a) refrain from prosecuting a charge that the prosecutor knows is not supported by probable cause; (b) make reasonable efforts to assure that the accused has been advised of the right to, and the procedure for obtaining, counsel and has been...

www.americanbar.org

Thank you for posting. It's really important and essential that both sides respond within the time limits set by the court rules or consequences will apply.

Although there's not much detail there, the State actually has responded to both Supplemental Requests by the Defense within the time limits: On 21 Feb and 29 March respectively. MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022123%20States%20Response%20to%20Defendants%20First%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/032923%20States%20Response%20to%20Defendants%20Second%20Supp%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

 

[gliving]

I don't get it. How could the defense know there's exculpatory evidence being withheld without already having it?

From the defendant? Just a guess

 

[maconrich]

How do you know he knows anything about DNA? What's his source for the size of the sample? I think it's copypasta from a general article on how DNA samples are sometimes processed.

I find it very hard to believe that the Idaho Lab leaked this information to Howard Blum. And since he is an entertainment/ general interest reporter, I find it hard to believe he knows exactly what he's talking about, with DNA. He definitely wants you to read his multi-part (neverending?) series of blogs on this case.

But I believe he's wrong about the DNA or is, actually, violating the gag order. IMO. I need to read his next installment, but I don't have a good feeling about this blog.

IMO

Sorry for laughing, but I am. Definitely not at you, and not at your post. But because intent doesn't always come through in writing - unless there's clarification, which I didn't provide. So to clarify: I don't trust or believe most of what he's written - not in this article or in the ones before it.

To be specific, IMHO he might not know anything about DNA except for what he researched or looked up in order to write his article. He most likely cherry picked what info he opted to use, and I absolutely did not check for validity with anything he indicated as facts or the truth. I doubt anyone from the Idaho Lab leaked information, and if he read about or contacted the Othram Lab, I don't believe they would have said anything specific about this case.

As I'd indicated, despite (apparently) getting some things wrong, his first article was ok, but he lost me with the second, and I skipped the third. I did read the latest, and it came across as fantasy or at least fiction. I'm not a fan, and I won't be reading his book. I may or may not read any more articles by him -- I don't know.

I do agree the multi-part articles could be never-ending especially given the fact the case might be ongoing.

Again, I'm not a fan and I don't consider him a reliable source.

Edited to add all MOO, IMHO, etc

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

And the defense will say you can't prove a negative. No blood evidence found means no blood evidence found. Everything else is speculation. It'll be interesting to see what the brake pedals in the car show. IMO, that's one area that I doubt someone like BK would have thought of.

Well, the prosecution can't introduce evidence that doesn't exist. Pretty hard to lay a foundation for that, but even if they wanted to charge ahead, is that something they'd really want to focus on? We didn't find any blood evidence, but that means he did it isn't really a good look for them imo. Nor is it was there but he cleaned it all up because some jurors might think that was a wildly unfounded accusation.