4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

[Sister Golden Hair]

From the defendant? Just a guess

From their own investigation - or at least that's how they found the BF evidence IIRC

 

[gliving]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654962134055555073

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

i was watching @Tricia 's U tube earlier, it's worth a watch.
She had a really clear video of a traffic stop a few weeks before he allegedly killed everyone.
A simple traffic stop and he over questioned the most patient female cop that stopped him..
he was looking up at her at times as if he was utterly sincere, giving too much information as if he was chatting her up and asking pedantic q's about the law.
He had more time and better access to the law than she had, he still strung it out..

Dude is very very sharp.

I think the longer version makes him look better not worse IMO at the end when he apologizes and explains. And I guess it was pedantic to ask about the RCW but okay, so I'm pedantic, too because I went to check the PA code after I watched the video, and not that anyone on this earth cares, but good news if you're ever on a game show and are asked about this:

Pennsylvania Code = RCW and the ‘‘Pa. Code’’

§ 3710. Stopping at intersection or crossing to prevent obstruction.

No driver shall enter an intersection or a crosswalk or drive onto any railroad grade crossing unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection, crosswalk or railroad grade crossing to accommodate the vehicle operated without obstructing the passage of other vehicles, pedestrians or railroad trains notwithstanding any traffic-control signal indication to proceed.

And of course there are additional laws about left turns and turning on red, so yeah.

RCW 46.61.202: Stopping when traffic obstructed.

 

[RANCH]

From the defendant? Just a guess

Interesting. The defendant has the exculpatory evidence that the State is withholding from his defense.

I think I'm getting something wrong here. JMO.

 

[RANCH]

They did waive the right to a speedy trial. But he was arrested in late December. It's now May and this is the defense's 3rd request for some of this information, I believe.

It's not unusual for murder cases to take years before they go to trial.

I guess the defense can try to get this case dismissed for the delay's in getting what they want. I kind of doubt it will work. JMO.

 

[RANCH]

Well, the prosecution can't introduce evidence that doesn't exist. Pretty hard to lay a foundation for that, but even if they wanted to charge ahead, is that something they'd really want to focus on? We didn't find any blood evidence, but that means he did it isn't really a good look for them imo. Nor is it was there but he cleaned it all up because some jurors might think that was a wildly unfounded accusation.

If the State has evidence that BK purchased cleaning supplies and evidence of it's use could that be used to explain the lack of blood evidence?

 

[jepop]

100%, and IMO another thing that won't help the prosecution's case is failing to respond to discovery requests in a timely fashion as required by court rules. Combine that with the Brady/Giglio issue (whatever it is... but I've got my spitballs ready), the potential exculpatory evidence on two points cited in the motion to compel in addition to BF's potential testimony, and the holes in the case, and IMO there are some issues here.

[respectfully snipped for focus]

BBM; Respectfully and for clarity and accuracy, the State has responded to both Supplemental Requests for discovery by the Defense within the time limits. MOO.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case... First Supplemental Request for Discovery.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case...endants Second Supp Request for Discovery.pdf

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

If the State has evidence that BK purchased cleaning supplies and evidence of it's use could that be used to explain the lack of blood evidence?

Well, we all purchase cleaning supplies and we all use them, so I'm not sure that the state could prove he used the Oxyclean to destroy blood evidence instead of just using it to spiff up the tighty wighties (<<slang for brief underwear for those who don't know). And remember, BK is almost certainly not going to testify, so it's not like they'd have a chance to ask him.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

It's not unusual for murder cases to take years before they go to trial.

I guess the defense can try to get this case dismissed for the delay's in getting what they want. I kind of doubt it will work. JMO.

I posted the discovery rules above. Time to go to trial and time to respond to discovery request are separate issues altogether.

 

[kittythehare]

If the State has evidence that BK purchased cleaning supplies and evidence of it's use could that be used to explain the lack of blood evidence?

oh yes.
If they find traces of something like H2O2 all over his home in places where it could not possibly have any other use..
Remember the case of YinYinZhang?
Gallons upon gallons upon gallons of bleach, industrial cleaner and even a maintenance call complaining about mold.
fed DP case.
anyways I think it's moot because there is no evidence he killed anybody in his own apartment unless he's being investigated for other crimes too..
that is a possibility.. of course, it is..

 

[RANCH]

I posted the discovery rules above. Time to go to trial and time to respond to discovery request are separate issues altogether.

So that means this case is going to be dismissed?

 

[Nova]

RBBM: It would be handy to have a link to show that his profile was still live until just after his arrest? He may still have been up as a PHD student because as far as I'm aware he was only let go as a TA on Dec 19th and not expelled as a student (two separate matters). MOO

I think it's reasonable to infer that the trespass letter is related to the investigation WSU was conducting in late DEC/early Jan into claims by students of unfair grading and sexism as reported by the NYT in early February. I believe this was a separate matter to WSU having let BK go from his TA position on DEc 19th. MOO. On the basis of a NYT report, IMO BK was let go as TA on DEC 19th and WSU had commenced an investigation into his conduct towards students (possibly sexism) in late DEC early Jan.

See post below for details and source.

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

As suspected, the testing of DNA was not done by the State of Idaho but was farmed out. This is getting all that info. But we are pretty far along. Is the defense late or was the info to them late? We are just over a month from pretrial. Am I reading the wrong document? Not being snippy...

www.websleuths.com

& quote from trespass admonition that informs my opinion.
"RE: Trespass Admonition
This admonition is to inform you that you have been trespassed from all areas of
Washington State University campuses...[snipped by me]...This admonition is effective immediately and will continue until pending student conduct charges have been resolved..."

If I may disagree just slightly, my guess is that BK was "trespassed" (WSU's verb) for the two altercations with his professor. I am speculating the professor felt his safety was threatened by BK's demeanor. All MOO, obviously.

If the issue were sexist grading, that was resolved by firing him from his TAship. If the issue were sexist remarks alone, I doubt the university would take the extreme step of banning BK from campus.

But I will admit again I have been retired from academia for over 15 years. It's possible there has been a sea change in policies since I was closely involved.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Interesting. The defendant has the exculpatory evidence that the State is withholding from his defense.

I think I'm getting something wrong here. JMO.

The defense is doing their own investigation, and in doing so, the investigator found that BF may have information that would be exculpatory. In addition, 'on information and belief' the defense states

Request No. 49 — All lab testing, including photographs and color diagrams
and bench notes including, but not limited to:
l. Copies of lab reports detailing the forensic evidence collection and analysis of items recovered at Bryan Kohberger’s parents’ home, trash cans and other receptacles, and Bryan Kohberger’s Hyundai
Elantra.

As of May 4, 2023, Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received the requested
materials, and based upon information and belief these reports contain
exculpatory information

Request No. 161 - All reports, notes, recordings and photos

As of May 4. 2023, Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received the requested materials. On information and belief Counsel believes these materials contain exculpatory evidence.

Request #49 was made in 1st Supp Request dated 2.21 and #161 was 2nd Supp Request dated 3.23, so both requests well past the 14 days mark. Exhibits to both 1st & 2nd are sealed but this motion to compel was not sealed so we got a little peek into this.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022123%20States%20Response%20to%20Defendants%20First%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/032423%20Defendants%202nd%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

 

[RANCH]

Well, we all purchase cleaning supplies and we all use them, so I'm not sure that the state could prove he used the Oxyclean to destroy blood evidence instead of just using it to spiff up the tighty wighties (<<slang for brief underwear for those who don't know). And remember, BK is almost certainly not going to testify, so it's not like they'd have a chance to ask him.

Seems like it would be circumstantial evidence to me. JMO.

 

[RANCH]

The defense is doing their own investigation, and in doing so, the investigator found that BF may have information that would be exculpatory. In addition, 'on information and belief' the defense states

Request No. 49 — All lab testing, including photographs and color diagrams
and bench notes including, but not limited to:
l. Copies of lab reports detailing the forensic evidence collection and analysis of items recovered at Bryan Kohberger’s parents’ home, trash cans and other receptacles, and Bryan Kohberger’s Hyundai
Elantra.

As of May 4, 2023, Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received the requested
materials, and based upon information and belief these reports contain
exculpatory information

Request No. 161 - All reports, notes, recordings and photos

As of May 4. 2023, Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received the requested materials. On information and belief Counsel believes these materials contain exculpatory evidence.

Request #49 was made in 1st Supp Request dated 2.21 and #161 was 2nd Supp Request dated 3.23, so both requests well past the 14 days mark. Exhibits to both 1st & 2nd are sealed but this motion to compel was not sealed so we got a little peek into this.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022123%20States%20Response%20to%20Defendants%20First%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/032423%20Defendants%202nd%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

May have exculpatory evidence. Thanks for pointing that out. I was under the impression that the State was purposely withholding exculpatory evidence from the defense. JMO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

oh yes.
If they find traces of something like H2O2 all over his home in places where it could not possibly have any other use..
Remember the case of YinYinZhang?
Gallons upon gallons upon gallons of bleach, industrial cleaner and even a maintenance call complaining about mold.
fed DP case.
anyways I think it's moot because there is no evidence he killed anybody in his own apartment unless he's being investigated for other crimes too..
that is a possibility.. of course, it is..

Right, and I think that would be the key. No one was killed in his apartment and there was no evidence of gallons of bleach etc. Just having and using cleaning supplies would not be proof. And it's hard to imagine that finding H202 or OxyClean in unusual places would prove much since they can be used for so many things IMO.

 

[jjleroche]

100%, and IMO another thing that won't help the prosecution's case is failing to respond to discovery requests in a timely fashion as required by court rules. Combine that with the Brady/Giglio issue (whatever it is... but I've got my spitballs ready), the potential exculpatory evidence on two points cited in the motion to compel in addition to BF's potential testimony, and the holes in the case, and IMO there are some issues here.



Thank you. It's nice to come out here and see something nice written to me I think this case is baffling, and that's why I keep moving the pieces around looking for congruence. When BK was arrested and I read the PCA, I thought LE had found the right guy, but then the warrants started dropping, and even with redactions, I could see there was a lot of probable cause that factored into those warrants, and that's when my research began. Of course, without the underlying affidavits, there are leaps I can't make, but there sure are questions I can ask... and I have a lot of them.



I am definitely in agreement re the above, but bad news on the DNA - I was just citing from the article I shared, didn't really dig in at all, and no one said there would be math on WS

As always, Sister Golden Hair, more very well-reasoned and thought-provoking posts from you today.

Yes - "math on WS"!! Who knew!.

Referencing "questions I can ask....a lot of them", can you enlighten us? TIA

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Seems like it would be circumstantial evidence to me. JMO.

I would disagree.

circumstantial evidence

www.law.cornell.edu

circumstantial evidence​

Circumstantial evidence is indirect evidence that does not, on its face, prove a fact in issue but gives rise to a logical inference that the fact exists. Circumstantial evidence requires drawing additional reasonable inferences in order to support the claim.
For instance, circumstantial evidence of intentional discrimination can include suspicious timing, ambiguous statements, different treatment, personal animus, and other evidence can allow a jury to reasonably infer intentional discrimination.

Having and using cleaning supplies would require a real stretch for logical inference. It would be more like logical fallacy imo.

 

[kittythehare]

Right, and I think that would be the key. No one was killed in his apartment and there was no evidence of gallons of bleach etc. Just having and using cleaning supplies would not be proof. And it's hard to imagine that finding H202 or OxyClean in unusual places would prove much since they can be used for so many things IMO.

We don't actually know what LE found.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

May have exculpatory evidence. Thanks for pointing that out. I was under the impression that the State was purposely withholding exculpatory evidence from the defense. JMO.

They are not responding to discovery requests and without good reason, that might seem purposeful, but we can't assume yet.