4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #88

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They were and that is what happened Imo. On 28th Dec ISL lab extracted a sample of BK's dad dna from the Kohberger family trash as per PCA and P filings in this case. It's reasonable to assume they were looking for BK's dna but couldn't find any in that trash Imo. The inference is that BK was bagging up his own separately and dumping it in neighbours bin. IIRC this was reported as being observed by fbi who were surveiling BK in the 5 days or so prior to his arrest. Moo
I wonder what they used to test for DNA and if it was obvious who it came from. That would be kind of interesting to know, imo. This is just my guess, but maybe whatever they pulled from the family trash was assumed likely to have family DNA, so even if they didn't know whose DNA they would get, they knew that the familial genealogy results would ultimately lead back to BK, whether by mother, father, sibling, or BK himself. Jmo.
 
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The defence team for Bryan Kohberger provided testimony this week from a genealogist scrutinizing the reliability of genetic genealogy that prosecutors say tied the Idaho murders suspect to the knife sheath found at the scene.

Too late............The precedents have already been set all across the country:


IGG Cases​

The data in this repository originates from the Forensic Genetic Genealogy Project led by Tracey Leigh Dowdeswell, Ph.D. It features criminal cases solved using Investigative Genetic Genealogy (IGG) where public authorities have confirmed the application of IGG. The data shows 604 criminal cases have been solved, involving 286 perpetrators.

You may sort or search by any column to refine the results in the table. To learn more about individual cases, click on the case below.
 
Do we know what happened with the defense's request to have access to the training records of the officer who supposedly had experience in conducting certain kinds of sensitive interviews (not sure how it was actually described)? Has there already been a hearing and decision by the judge on this request by the defense?
Yes, it was granted.

 
Do we know what happened with the defense's request to have access to the training records of the officer who supposedly had experience in conducting certain kinds of sensitive interviews (not sure how it was actually described)? Has there already been a hearing and decision by the judge on this request by the defense?
IIRC the State had to turn them over.
 
I think there is something we are all misunderstanding here. I don't think they admitted it was his DNA tacitly or otherwise. There is a subtle subtext that I think we are all missing. Didn't Anne Taylor ask why they decided to test BK's father's DNA? Anyone remember what was said about this specifically?
I think the subtext is that AT is asking that question for misdirection purposes. Not that I'm faulting her. It's strategic. If we all know LE came upon his father's DNA in the trash, and hoped to be testing BK's DNA, then I'm sure she does too.
 
I think the subtext is that AT is asking that question for misdirection purposes. Not that I'm faulting her. It's strategic. If we all know LE came upon his father's DNA in the trash, and hoped to be testing BK's DNA, then I'm sure she does too.
The subtext for me was the possibility of a family tree member that matched to the sheath before LE ended up digging through trash in PA. If a relative was in a database like GEDMatch, was that more distant match to the sheath the catalyst for looking closely at tree members that were located close to the scene? How did the investigation timeline proceed, and did the DNA trail go straight from sheath to parent to BK?
 
I wonder what they used to test for DNA and if it was obvious who it came from. That would be kind of interesting to know, imo. This is just my guess, but maybe whatever they pulled from the family trash was assumed likely to have family DNA, so even if they didn't know whose DNA they would get, they knew that the familial genealogy results would ultimately lead back to BK, whether by mother, father, sibling, or BK himself. Jmo.
I remember reading that they essentially ran the equivalent of a paternity test on the sample pulled from the trash. Against the locally pulled sample.


There are other (non-AP) articles that also frame it as a paternity test.

IGG may have led them down a family tree to Kohlberger’s name…..But that’s about it.

All signs keep pointing back to the locally pulled sample.
 
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Do we know what happened with the defense's request to have access to the training records of the officer who supposedly had experience in conducting certain kinds of sensitive interviews (not sure how it was actually described)? Has there already been a hearing and decision by the judge on this request by the defense?
I been wondering the same thing. Will this be the next line of defense?
 
Correct. It's BKs DNA on a knife sheath beneath a victim. There is no question its his DNA.

This defense is a version of "you obtained the information by an an unauthorized search view of a database therefore the evidence should be suppressed."
In other words BK is guilty, and AT is trying to get the evidence of his guilt thrown out on a technicality.
Yes! This is my perspective too, Boxer. It seems as though the true objective of finding a suspect guilty or not guilty turns into a contest of gaming the system rather than seeking justice.

Certainly MOO.
 
I remember reading that they essentially ran the equivalent of a paternity test on the sample pulled from the trash. Against the locally pulled sample.


There are other (non-AP) articles that also frame it as a paternity test.

IGG may have led them down a family tree to Kohlberger’s name…..But that’s about it.

All signs keep pointing back to the locally pulled sample.
I have also read that the tested something expecting/hoping it would be BK's DNA and it turned out to be the Dads. Similar, but not exactly the same thing. Of course, the press tends to fill in the blanks their own way.
 
I wonder what they used to test for DNA and if it was obvious who it came from. That would be kind of interesting to know, imo. This is just my guess, but maybe whatever they pulled from the family trash was assumed likely to have family DNA, so even if they didn't know whose DNA they would get, they knew that the familial genealogy results would ultimately lead back to BK, whether by mother, father, sibling, or BK himself. Jmo.
Do you mean from which piece/pieces of trash was the paternal sample extracted? Haven't thought much about that. I suppose some materials are more likely to contain better/richer samples than others (disposable coffee cups? hair from a hairbrush - does the dad have hair? old toothbrush?). Stuff that contains spit and hair huh. If BK's dad drank a bottled drink from the bottle maybe. Moo

Ageeing that it always seemed logical to me to assume they were hoping to extract a sample that matched 100% directly with the forensic sample from the sheath. But I guess either they kept testing a bunch of extracted samples and didn't find one or bit the bullet after extracting a sample that when tested showed that the trash sample was a 99.99987% (or whatever it was) paternal match. You're right I think, if they'd matched a sample that showed a maternal match I suppose that would also have been usable. Maybe the paternal was better because BK is also male. @10Rods probably knows stuff like that. Moo
 
I wonder what they used to test for DNA and if it was obvious who it came from. That would be kind of interesting to know, imo. This is just my guess, but maybe whatever they pulled from the family trash was assumed likely to have family DNA, so even if they didn't know whose DNA they would get, they knew that the familial genealogy results would ultimately lead back to BK, whether by mother, father, sibling, or BK himself. Jmo.
They can differentiate male from female DNA, so they could test the DNA for gender first, since the only males that lived in the home were BK and his Dad. JMO
 
Right. The defense is not saying BK is not a match. They're not saying there was a mistake in the process of collecting the dna, analyzing the dna, the familial match with BK's father or the actual match to BK himself.

They're saying WHY did you decide to test BK's father? What led to that decision? What investigative techniques did you use to decide to test his father? You say in the PCA that it was the car. We're not so sure. Give us the notes of the IGG so we can see how you did that and at what point you had a name from it.

In truth, we do not know at what date they had a family to pinpoint from the IGG. It might have been before they ran plates at WSU, it might have been after. If it was after, the IGG doesn't matter because the car led to the dna testing. If it was before and it wasn't the car that led to the testing, the defense wants to know.
And they are not even discussing his guilt or innocence, they are discussing HOW he was identified as the intruder. I think his Guilt or Innocence is a more important question. JMO

They are scrambling for technicalities in a desperate fashion because they have so many bad facts to contend with concerning his guilt. IMO
 
They can differentiate male from female DNA, so they could test the DNA for gender first, since the only males that lived in the home were BK and his Dad. JMO

You can't know the sex of the sample until you test it though. And they could have used maternal DNA, had they found that (and they probably did find it). But, male to male match allows the Y chromosome expert to take the stand - one of the simpler and more convincing ways of showing how DNA works.

ANd this is not directed at you but just in general, I do not recall the Defense saying there was no connection between BK and the HOUSE (because his DNA was inside the house), they said "no connection to the victims," implying no social connections (but of course, parasocial connections could still exist).

I figure they took trash that was promising (napkins, kleenex, etc).

If the sample was complete or near complete, they'd learn the sex of the donor quickly - along with all the autosomal traits on the other 22 pairs of chromosomes.

1692721850962.png

Notice how small that Y is, at the 23rd position (the chromosomes are not lined up in this manner by nature, ever - this is a digital capture of each pair - they do line up next to each other briefly during cellular reproduction, but not horizontally.

The SNP's used by Othram and others are typically on the other chromosomes - in stretches where there's lots of human variation. We are 95% the same as dogs in terms of loci (I said 88% yesterday and looked it up today - and now, reputable sources are saying 95%, after thorough study of the dog genome). We are 99% the same as chimpanzees, but that still leaves some 1200 loci that separate us (as I understand it).
 
I don't think so - they got dad's DNA before BK returned home, IIRC.

For the exact purpose of making the next step in identification of a suspect.

It was after, per the PCA

"On December 27, 2022, Pennsylvania Agents recovered the trash from the Kohberger family residence located in Albrightsville, PA. That evidence was sent to the Idaho State Lab for testing. On December 28,2022, the Idaho State Lab reported that a DNA profrle obtained ftom the trash and the DNA profile obtained from the sheath, identified a male as not being excluded as the bioiogical father of Suspect Profile."

 
I don't think so - they got dad's DNA before BK returned home, IIRC.

For the exact purpose of making the next step in identification of a suspect.
The PCA says the fbi collected the trash on Dec 27th from the parent's home and the ISL lab processed it the next day to make that paternal match with forensic sample from the sheath. Arrest warrant on 29th and arrest on 3oth Dec. The State's filing regarding the IGG and protective order detail the same process but in more detail then the PCA ofcourse. Moo
 
The subtext for me was the possibility of a family tree member that matched to the sheath before LE ended up digging through trash in PA. If a relative was in a database like GEDMatch, was that more distant match to the sheath the catalyst for looking closely at tree members that were located close to the scene? How did the investigation timeline proceed, and did the DNA trail go straight from sheath to parent to BK?

I would assume so (and I need to mention that Othram and GedMatch are quite different - Othram is a forensic site, everyone who uploads is there to help solve crimes - GedMatch has an opt-in/opt-out thing for use by LE). I think a lot of the same people upload to both (it's free to upload). Ancestry.com is particularly strong on this (hundreds of thousands of members have uploaded - someone researching my dad's genealogy paid for and uploaded 200 matches all by himself - and that was 8 years ago, he's still uploading everywhere he can). He has three websites documenting the genealogical records as well. 23andme makes it easy to get your results in a digital file (and they just made it easier), so I'm going to upload mine to Othram (very impressive record of helping to find missing persons and solve crimes).

IMO. Keep in mind that some alleles are so relatively rare, that only a few SNP's are needed to make a genealogical match (and Y chromosome all by itself narrows things down a lot - the two things together can point to the branches of the family tree). I believe we'll learn that Kohberger was already on the radar (having been noticed by campus police in Pullman - and, perhaps, mentioned to LE by others - I have a strong hunch that he was on their radar, it helps explain some of the messaging right before the arrest).

So when the name Kohberger turned up at Othram, LE knew what to do next.

IMO.
 
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