4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #88

[NyxNY]

Apparently after Ms. Vargas' testimony she got a visit from 2 FBI agents! Around 14:00 in video of today's hearing.

Right?! I just came in to ask about this. Could anyone make out the prosecution's response to the 2 FBI agents visiting the witness? Something about inconsistencies in her testimony? And is that allowed? I think I would $h** a kitten if that happened to me.

 

[Odeto BJ]

And investigators took lots and lots of pictures. I'm sure the jury will not be the least bit confused, plus the jury will hear the whole story, once again (in yet other words, as humans rarely utter exactly the same thing twice), when an investigator takes the stand.

Pictures are worth a lot. Ordinary operating procedure (and common sense) to thoroughly photograph the crime scene before moving anything, and to move things with a photographer immediately taking pictures. There's no other way to treat a crime scene, and it's just so basic to do it that way.

I figure the latent footprint would not even have been mentioned in the PCA (as one in a necessary series of bloody footprints), were it not for its support of DM's statements.

The total sum of what we know about this case is almost nothing, really. But we do know where they found the knife. And one person being slightly more specific in their language is completely normal and I'd be suspicious of the reports if the language wasn't individual.

IMO.

10: Certainly accredit your participation throughout but the value of words clearly demonstrated herein. Unless I'm totally out of touch, nobody found a knife with the victims....

All respect, and Lest we Forget: MOO

 

[Wallendo]

I suspect the defense requests about treatment of witnesses after their testimony relates to the two surviving roommates. The second story roommate is reported to have seen a figure not inconsistent with BK, although there are a lot of men who are athletic but not muscular and of average height or above with bushy eyebrows.

We know the downstairs roommate was asked to provide evidence to the defense, but we only have rumors about what she might have seen and what she said in LE interrogations.

It is likely that both will be called by the prosecution and cross-examined. I suspect that the defense wants to be able to call one or both of them to provide evidence that might point away from BK or suggest more than one killer. There may be inconsistencies between what they initially described that could generate reasonable doubt. After a traumatic event like this crime, it would be very unlikely that individuals involved would provided perfectly harmonized descriptions.

Despite all the talk of alibi's and an alibi defense, I have always felt this was going to be a reasonable doubt defense.

The prosecution turned over a tremendous amount of discovery. Based on the total size of the files, I suspect that there are days worth of boring surveillance videos. LE had teams of people looking at this with a focus on finding the white car. he defense does not have the resources of the Idaho State Police and FBI. It will take a long time to review all of this video in the hope of finding other white cars that could plausibly belong to BK in places other than those mentioned by LE.

 

[10ofRods]

10: Certainly accredit your participation throughout but the value of words clearly demonstrated herein. Unless I'm totally out of touch, nobody found a knife with the victims....

All respect, and Lest we Forget: MOO

OOPS. Typing too fast (having to go back to work is really cutting into my WS time). YIKES.

SHEATH (although...I still feel some real satisfaction that it was part of the weapon and denotes a Ka-Bar - Ka-Bar uses a proprietary coating on its knives, which can be detected with forensic radiology).

University of Washington/WSU have access to some of our nation's best forensic radiology with state of the art tech available in both Spokane and Seattle.

My own theory is that the reason Ethan's body underwent more study at the time of autopsy is that they wanted to use one victim's body for this difficult technical analysis. Naturally, they would know the blade length (to a very close measure, not perfect of course) but if they can show that the knife was a Ka-Bar, that would be icing.

Ka-Bar knife? Check
Ka-Bar sheath? To be expected.
Ka-Bar DNA? Just one person's, on the use point of the sheath.

Maybe my brain has decided the knife is a known quantity. I need to revise those neurons!

 

[katydid23]

Yep, called that the first day we found out about a hearing.

AT & Company are nowhere near ready. They've spent the last months trying to get things thrown out of technicalities and 100's of year old precedents. Didn't work. Now they are going to have to present a real defense.

Yeah, good luck with that.

moo

And they are still trying to do that. Just doubled down with that 20 page reply to the state's reply to the motion to dismiss indictment. They are going to try hard for dismissal up until and during g deliberations, and then will switch to appeals. JMO

 

[wendy44]

Right?! I just came in to ask about this. Could anyone make out the prosecution's response to the 2 FBI agents visiting the witness? Something about inconsistencies in her testimony? And is that allowed? I think I would $h** a kitten if that happened to me.

Yeah, this what happens to witnesses after they testify thing has nothing to do with the normal witness sequestering we see in trials.

The defense is rightfully upset that the FBI visited their witness after she testified because they see it as witness intimidation.

The prosecution is rightfully upset that the witness apparently admitted that portions of her affidavit weren't truthful, given that her testimony jeopardizes the most important piece of evidence (that we know of) they have.

I watched with closed captioning and still couldn't hear all of what was said, so I could be wrong.

 

[Odeto BJ]

Ka-Bar uses a proprietary coating on its knives, which can be detected with forensic radiology).

University of Washington/WSU have access to some of our nation's best forensic radiology with state of the art tech available in both Spokane and Seattle.

My own theory is that the reason Ethan's body underwent more study at the time of autopsy is that they wanted to use one victim's body for this difficult technical analysis. Naturally, they would know the blade length (to a very close measure, not perfect of course) but if they can show that the knife was a Ka-Bar, that would be icing.

Ka-Bar knife? Check
Ka-Bar sheath? To be expected.
Ka-Bar DNA? Just one person's, on the use point of the sheath.

Maybe my brain has decided the knife is a known quantity. I need to revise those neurons!

No worries, though letting "KNIFE" lie would have really sent SM into a deep rabbit hole. Ask Alice...

If traces of the proprietary coating can be found as you indicated and exclusively identified, that would indeed be icing. Obviously there would be target body zones more likely to cause that deposition than say, soft tissue...Much more specificity gets a little graphic but the knowns you related may be indicative that EC received wounds that were locationally different than the other victims. We may yet find out in something like 2025?

I put up an offer on this forum a long time ago, to take any bets, with odds, on the October trial date. For everybody's zen: there were no takers.

I have no doubt there will be a great proportion of the available photos taken by the crime scene folks and the ME that will be censored from jury review as inflammatory and non probabative. I very much hope the photos of the sheath survive that screening.

Best; and MOO

 

[maskedwoman]

Right?! I just came in to ask about this. Could anyone make out the prosecution's response to the 2 FBI agents visiting the witness? Something about inconsistencies in her testimony? And is that allowed? I think I would $h** a kitten if that happened to me.

It was a challenge to hear but I understood that, after Ms. Vargas testified, she communicated with some people in the genealogical community, and in some fashion cast doubts upon her own testimony. Some of those people then contacted the prosecution, and they asked LE to look into it. Apparently she said that she had not fully read everything she signed, which - forgive me - is really not very smart. Thompson also said that they would be documenting that for AT asap.

In context, I think AT's motion about what happens to witnesses after they testify may be related to that rather than anything else.

ETA documenting for AT.

 

[NextSprint]

Just caught this; Did the FBI really go and see Ms Vargas after Friday's hearing where she provided expert testimony?

Are they worried about her telling the world about their backdoor into non-sanctioned privately-held DNA profiles?

Unbelievable.

 

[ilovewings]

Yes and aren't we all?

I haven't seen a defense yet, in high profile cases that didn't play games: it is so
old- our justice system is sadly amenable to such games---- now he wants to wave a speedy trial-- delaying stating that as long as possible to delay the trial as long as possible.

 

[NextSprint]

I haven't seen a defense yet, in high profile cases that didn't play games: it is so
old- our justice system is sadly amenable to such games---- now he wants to wave a speedy trial-- delaying stating that as long as possible to delay the trial as long as possible.

Or just using the time to develop a decent defence, in light of the complexity and breadth of the case and the evidence?

Tomato/tomato.

 

[Kudzuu]

Don't want to bring up anything which has already been discussed from Aug 18 court appearance; however, curious if anyone noticed or thought BK's eyebrows looked trimmed? I didn't notice but this clip (at the end) mentions it. Again, don't want to rehash eyebrow (haven't gone back to 3 days of threads) topic only wanted to know if several here noticed it too. moo TIA

https://twitter.com/x/status/1692842087627075788

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin

Yes. He's been keeping them trimmed for a good while now. I can almost hear his attorney asking the jury if BK has bushy eyebrows. A la Harpootlian in the Murdaugh case. I learned that it is perfectly fine for a lawyer to lie to a jury. Amazing how so much I learn now that I see a lot of trials etc in the news.
JMO

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Here I notice much lighter eyebrows than previously. moo

Also his hair looks lighter to match

 

[girlhasnoname]

I haven't seen a defense yet, in high profile cases that didn't play games: it is so
old- our justice system is sadly amenable to such games---- now he wants to wave a speedy trial-- delaying stating that as long as possible to delay the trial as long as possible.

I agree, but I don't have to like it haha

 

[maskedwoman]

Just caught this; Did the FBI really go and see Ms Vargas after Friday's hearing where she provided expert testimony?

Are they worried about her telling the world about their backdoor into non-sanctioned privately-held DNA profiles?

Unbelievable.

Respectfully, I don't think that's a fair assessment of what was said. Nor do I believe we have any proof of the FBI doing that. Only that the witness herself admitted to doing it and that it is possible.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Also his hair looks lighter to match

Intentionally done by defense IMO

 

[katydid23]

I do agree with that - he is wearing a mask Imo.

While I do agree with that, and think he does have a mask hiding his true nature most of the time, I do think there are moments where his true emotions leak through.

When he entered court, and smirked at AT, I think his arrogance and confidence in his own superiority leaked through. I think he really feels like he has this all under control.

 

[x_files]

It isn't ironic that BK has been expelled/fired from every role he participated in with something he was passionate about. LE training, security guard, TA.

I wonder if once he was selected to those positions if he didn't use them to abuse, stalk or harass women by being in a 'power of position'?

It will be interesting to see what comes out at trial about BK's past.

ALL MOO

I believe he did use them to abuse his power and luckily each time someone stopped him before he was allowed to work with LE.

 

[katydid23]

Yeah, this what happens to witnesses after they testify thing has nothing to do with the normal witness sequestering we see in trials.

The defense is rightfully upset that the FBI visited their witness after she testified because they see it as witness intimidation.

The prosecution is rightfully upset that the witness apparently admitted that portions of her affidavit weren't truthful, given that her testimony jeopardizes the most important piece of evidence (that we know of) they have.

I watched with closed captioning and still couldn't hear all of what was said, so I could be wrong.

I don't think it is witness intimidation if the witness actually testified in court to doing something illegal. I think the FBI has the right to get some clarification---especially if she then had been trying to walk back her testimony. Was she lying in court or is she lying now?

I was very surprised that she got up on camera, in court, and admitted she willfully ignored legal privacy regulations while being paid for IGG work ---does she not plan to work anymore?

 

[10ofRods]

No worries, though letting "KNIFE" lie would have really sent SM into a deep rabbit hole. Ask Alice...

If traces of the proprietary coating can be found as you indicated and exclusively identified, that would indeed be icing. Obviously there would be target body zones more likely to cause that deposition than say, soft tissue...Much more specificity gets a little graphic but the knowns you related may be indicative that EC received wounds that were locationally different than the other victims. We may yet find out in something like 2025?

I put up an offer on this forum a long time ago, to take any bets, with odds, on the October trial date. For everybody's zen: there were no takers.

I have no doubt there will be a great proportion of the available photos taken by the crime scene folks and the ME that will be censored from jury review as inflammatory and non probabative. I very much hope the photos of the sheath survive that screening.

Best; and MOO

Very interesting point - and you are absolutely right. If the knife wounds did strike bone on one or more victim, then those victims would be better to study. Of course, they can do a quick study in the autopsy room (x-ray) to see if there are metal particles (and it's not unknown to lift samples from inside the wounds, too). But getting the radiographic profile that tells the composition of the fragments is icing plus cherries on top.

I personally was believing the trial would go in October, until it didn't. I can't say I'm surprised that it's delayed - but I agree with @MassGuy and others...this isn't going to trial until mid to late 2024 at the earliest - more likely to be 2025. That makes me steam a little, but otoh, the families will transition, cope and adapt and have more time to do that before the horrific facts that come out in trial...come out.

IMO.