4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #90

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#BryanKohberger walked into the courtroom- suit and tie - looked up towards the gallery gave a smile and immediate straight face before awkwardly taking his seat...

Also notable - the Judge did put on the record that he is for now not banning cameras but "taking more control" over what the media is doing ..He urged people to have some dignity and restraint, noting some of what he has seen has been disappointing...


 
The public hearing is beginning with the Defense arguing its motion to dismiss indictment on the grounds of error in grand jury instructions....Defense Attorney Jay Logsdon begins by acknowledging his arguments for a beyond a reasonable doubt standard for a grand jury is likely to be denied...but continues to make his position

Defense: in arguing for a Beyond a Reasonable Doubt standard at the grand jury level- If you’re in a position to put up an indictment as a prosecutor, you would bring your “A game”- Here, at least 6 grand jurors wanted to hear more evidence, until they were told the standard was probable cause…
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"I appreciate your argument, I mean it's interesting," Judge said with a chuckle.

Logsdon is back up, saying he's going to "fight" this precedent.Judge said that's fine, but arguing that in this court won't do any good. Judge said Logsdon is more than welcome to take that up with the Idaho Supreme court.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717650125185802710
 
Judge says it's a creative argument. He agrees that it's an important factor in determining what the law is, and why it exists as it is. But again, he says he's constrained but what he believes is "settled law in Idaho" and this is an issue he'd have to take up w/ higher court.

Judge has denied that argument. He said he will get a written decision soon.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717651808318001645
 
1698355419251.png

I'm outside the Latah County Courthouse. Closed to public Bryan Kohberger hearing is happening now. I'll go in for the public hearing this afternoon. The defense is challenging the grand jury indictment. I'll live tweet from court this afternoon and have latest on Newsnation.

Deputy outside Kohberger hearing says judge is considering banning cell phones and laptops from courtroom. So if I go quiet on Twitter that’s why. Hearing starts at 1pm local time // 4pmET.

Hearing seems to be delayed. Still waiting outside to be let in.

Deputy says judge will allow cell phones and laptops today - but encourages everyone to follow the rules. No recording allowed.

I'm in the courtroom now. Bryan Kohberger just walked in. Hearing should be starting soon.

Kohberger judge says morning hearing was sealed because they were dealing with the procedures of the grand jury and there were a lot of details. Grand jury proceedings are secret so it had to be sealed, he says.

Kohberger judge reminds people they are not allowed to record anything in the courtroom. He says rules have been violated in the past.

Kohberger judge says he will NOT ban cameras in courtroom. Says instead he "will take more control" of the cameras.

Kohberger deefense making argument now to throw out grand jury indictment.

Defense is arguing grand jury was given the wrong instructions -- but judge says it is the same instruction given to grand juries for 100 years.

Prosecution is now arguing why Kohberger grand jury indictment should not be thrown out. "There is nothing to see here. The Idaho Supreme Court has ruled on this issue.”

Kohberger judge denies defense motion to throw out grand jury indictment.

Kohberger court is adjourned. Grand jury indictment stands.And a decision we did not expect today -- judge said cameras will stay in courtroom though he will "take more control" of them.


 
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En route to Moscow this morning for another round of major hearings.Bryan Kohberger’s defense team will argue to dismiss his grand jury indictment. Hearings begin at 1 pm, we’ll keep you updated along every step of the way.

We’re in line, the first hearing at 9 am is running long.

Bryan Kohberger has entered the room, as has Judge John Judge.We are set to begin.

Judge John Judge apologized for the late start. He says the first hearing went long and was private because they were dealing with details of the grand jury.

Judge says some people have been independently recording portions of these hearings (on phones, laptops, etc.). A firm reminder. He says he's not going to ban cameras from the courtroom, but he needs to take more control.

Cameras are not to begin rolling until Judge declares they are ON the record. They are also ordered to stop recording once they're OFF the record.

Defense has taken to the stand for opening arguments.

Kohberger's attorney Jay Logsdon is trying to pick apart the precedent on what grand juries need for an indictment. He says the standard of proof should include more than just probable cause.

Logsdon believes the standard for an indictment should be elevated to "beyond a reasonable doubt." It's prompted an interesting back and forth between him and the judge.

Logsdon has stepped down. The prosecution is now at the stand.

Jeff Nye's argument lasted less than two minutes. He said that the rules surruonding what constitutes a fair indictment in the state of Idaho have already been established, and followed perfectly fine within this case.

Logsdon is back up, saying he's going to "fight" this precedent.Judge said that's fine, but arguing that in this court won't do any good. Judge said Logsdon is more than welcome to take that up with the Idaho Supreme court.

"I appreciate your argument, I mean it's interesting," Judge said with a chuckle.

Judge says it's a creative argument. He agrees that it's an important factor in determining what the law is, and why it exists as it is. But again, he says he's constrained but what he believes is "settled law in Idaho" and this is an issue he'd have to take up w/ higher court.

RECAP: Judge John Judge denied the Defense's motion to dismiss the grand jury indictment.

Court is adjourned, we're done for the day.

 
After about a half hour delay, Mr. Kohberger and Judge John Judge have arrived in the courtroom, and we're on the record as of 1:35pm.

Judge Judge apologized for the delay, saying it was because this morning's hearing went long--but it was very important with lots of details.He says it was sealed and private because it dealt with the grad jury, which--per state/federal law--is secret.

Judge Judge says he's not going to BAN cameras in the courtroom, but says that he needs to take "more control" over the cameras and what they record because there have been some independent recordings of proceedings outside of approved pool cameras.

Judge Judge says this hearing is about the defense's motion to dismiss the indictment based on errors in grand jury instructions.Attorney Jay Logsdon for the defense has taken the stand for initial testimony.

Logsdon is in the weeds on judicial precedent and history of previous rulings limiting/protecting grand juries that determine what the standard of proof is for grand juries.

#Kohberger defense attorney Logsdon says he believes the standard of proof for a grand jury indictment should be a step further than "probable cause," something closer to "beyond a reasonable doubt."

Judge rebuts, insisting the directions for the #Kohberger grand jury were no different than instructions to previous grand juries.

Logsdon's testimony is done.Attorney for the prosecution Jeff Nye--who's with the ID State Attorney General's Office--testifies that this issue has already been decided in the state of Idaho.

Logsdon's back testifying against precedent. Judge says that he's constrained by state law: "I can't just change the law."Judge says that Logsdon may have the ability to argue the law to the ID Supreme Court in the future, but so far he's bound by previous rulings/state laws.

Judge to #Kohberger defense attorney Jay Logsdon: "I appreciate your argument, but I'm constrained by the law."

Judge Judge has DENIED the motion, insisting that the precedent for a grand jury indictment has been established in state law through previous cases. He says he'll issue a written statement/explanation in the coming days.Court is adjourned.

TO BE CLEAR: Judge Judge dismissed THIS AFTERNOON’S motion/argument.We don’t know what happened in this morning’s hearingm, as it was closed to the public/media.We’ll have to wait for written decision/statements for more clarity on status of grand jury indictment itself.

https://twitter.com/guytannenbaum
 
ilovewings said:
Of course it stands-- there was never a,chance it wouldnt
They are desperate
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I'm surprised people don't seem to realize that attorneys in all DP cases file to get charges dismissed, basically malpractice to not file this.

If BK was indicted by a Preliminary Hearing the defense would still try to get that dismissed.
 
Cool Cats said:
I'm surprised people don't seem to realize that attorneys in all DP cases file to get charges dismissed, basically malpractice to not file this.

If BK was indicted by a Preliminary Hearing the defense would still try to get that dismissed.
Click to expand...
Exactly right. They had to take this step or it would be cause for appeal due to ineffective counsel.
 
Upshot: Kohberger motions denied. On to the next set.

DizzyB said:
This is very interesting. Can anyone explain the crux of the arguments? Dumb it down a bit? I’m getting in the weeds reading it.
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We've spent pages on it, but here's a recap:

The person in the Othram database who was a partial match to Kohberger's father gave their data with the expectation they would be private. Just as here on WS, it's not okay to publicly out people just because they are related to a case in an extra-legal way.

Judge had to rule on whether the Defense's claim that they needed to know the identity of this individual (who is merely doing what internet people do - submitting their data to get an answer to a question) should be publicly outed. They are not material to the case. It could ruin their life. They have a right to privacy.

Defense asked the judge to out them anyway. Which would be history-changing in terms of using DNA for ancestral research OR legal purposes.

IMO.
 
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