4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

[Cool Cats]

" U of I is planning to build a Vandal Healing Garden and Memorial, but it will be on campus, not at the site of the murders. "

IMO : Torn Too Soon. Regarding murder-horror timeline, a year seems like a week, when someone you love is murdered.

The harsh comments in general and criticism of Mr. Goncalves and his opinion/beliefs are sad. Unfathomable really.

Home where University of Idaho students were murdered comes down Thursday

MOSCOW, Idaho - Thursday marks the end of one chapter in a story that will forever haunt the community of Moscow, Idaho.

www.kxly.com

--

According to your link, unless you have others to support your claim, there are no comments that are being harsh and critical towards Mr. Goncalves.

The University is working with Mr. Goncalves to establish a scholarship in Kaylee's name.

On this thread there are posters who understand that it is inappropriate to do a jury walk-through of the house and thus tearing it down now is appropriate. These opinions supporting the demolition are not harsh and critical towards Mr G.

In the 13 months since, students and even the siblings of one of the murder victims have had to walk by the home, which has also become a spectacle for journalists and true crime junkies.

“It is the grim reminder of the heinous act that took place there,” University of Idaho President Scott Green said. “While we appreciate the emotional connection some family members of the victims may have to this house, it is time for its removal and to allow the collective healing of our community to continue.”

Jodi Walker, University of Idaho Executive Director of Communications said, "This really allows us to turn our full focus on to our healing garden, and that is just an incredibly powerful student driven project."

One man that lives on the hill just above King Road said he will glad when this is all over.
"The house is just a piece of physical evidence, and as long as the prosecution and the defense no longer need it to be physical evidence, they can take it down," Kolok said.

Vanessa Lopez, 25, lives near the home and sees it every day. She said the property had become a sort of tourist attraction, which she found disrespectful, and a constant reminder of the horrors that happened in what had always been a quiet little town.

Lopez said the wishes of the victims’ families should come first, but she would welcome seeing the house gone. “With that still being there, it just brings up the memories,” she said.

Home where University of Idaho students were murdered comes down Thursday

MOSCOW, Idaho - Thursday marks the end of one chapter in a story that will forever haunt the community of Moscow, Idaho.

www.kxly.com

Should a notorious crime scene be demolished before trial?

At the house where four University of Idaho students were killed last year, sheets of plywood cover the windows. A temporary fence surrounds the yard. Security guards, posted in a blue trailer, keep watch 24 hours a day.

www.spokesman.com

 

[Cool Cats]

What!?!?! The site demolition was all about moving forward and "healing as a community", but the memorial garden /site that they fundraiser for.... isn't even going to BE ON THE PROPERTY?

Ok. So excuse me if I'm shocked but I thought that was the whole point of this! The ol' bait and switch, is it?

No. They have been planning this for at least 10 months, ever since the house was gifted to the University. It was announced in February 2023.

In an email sent Feb. 24, U of I President Scott Green said that a university committee, with student representation, has begun planning a healing garden and memorial to the four students who were killed. The garden will be located on the university's Moscow campus, but the exact location has not been identified. Also:

• Money donated to the victims' families' pages has been directed to the Bruce and Kathy Pitman Emergency Fund to help students.
• Vandal alumni Gene Taft and Bob Urso, and Bob's wife, Gail, led a "peer-driven effort to create scholarships as a legacy for each of the four students," and the Vandals Supporting Vandals fund took shape.
• Endowed scholarships have been established in memory of Chapin, Kernodle and Mogen. Green said the university is working with Kaylee Goncalves's family to establish a scholarship in her name.

'A healing step': House where Idaho student murders occurred to be demolished

The owner of the house offered to give the house to the university, who will have it torn down.

www.ktvb.com

Moscow planting garden, creating scholarships in memory of slain students - Northwest Public Broadcasting

A photo of Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Ethan Chapin, and Xana Kernodle is part of a collaged table at the Corner Club in downtown Moscow. (Credit: Lauren Paterson / NWPB)… Continue Reading Moscow planting garden, creating scholarships in memory of slain students

www.nwpb.org

 

[whiterhino]

According to your link, unless you have others to support your claim, there are no comments that are being harsh and critical towards Mr. Goncalves.

On this thread there are posters who understand that it is inappropriate to do a jury walk-through of the house and thus tearing it down now is appropriate. These opinions supporting the demolition are not harsh and critical towards Mr G.

In the 13 months since, students and even the siblings of one of the murder victims have had to walk by the home, which has also become a spectacle for journalists and true crime junkies.

“It is the grim reminder of the heinous act that took place there,” University of Idaho President Scott Green said. “While we appreciate the emotional connection some family members of the victims may have to this house, it is time for its removal and to allow the collective healing of our community to continue.”

Jodi Walker, University of Idaho Executive Director of Communications said, "This really allows us to turn our full focus on to our healing garden, and that is just an incredibly powerful student driven project."

One man that lives on the hill just above King Road said he will glad when this is all over.
"The house is just a piece of physical evidence, and as long as the prosecution and the defense no longer need it to be physical evidence, they can take it down," Kolok said.

Vanessa Lopez, 25, lives near the home and sees it every day. She said the property had become a sort of tourist attraction, which she found disrespectful, and a constant reminder of the horrors that happened in what had always been a quiet little town.

Lopez said the wishes of the victims’ families should come first, but she would welcome seeing the house gone. “With that still being there, it just brings up the memories,” she said.

Home where University of Idaho students were murdered comes down Thursday

MOSCOW, Idaho - Thursday marks the end of one chapter in a story that will forever haunt the community of Moscow, Idaho.

www.kxly.com

Should a notorious crime scene be demolished before trial?

At the house where four University of Idaho students were killed last year, sheets of plywood cover the windows. A temporary fence surrounds the yard. Security guards, posted in a blue trailer, keep watch 24 hours a day.

www.spokesman.com

A number of the quoted statements from family were made in summer and earlier in the year when the demolition was originally scheduled. IMO during the summer, when it hadn't even been a year yet.

Tearing down the house doesn't change what happened there and it's sad that people are talking about moving on already. Of course ECs brother will have a hard time with the memories regardless if the house is outside his window or not. Just being in that neighbourhood would be triggering.

Sorry WS, I was a bit harsh with MOO. I was thinking about little Murphy alone in the room and that part always gets to me.

 

[Cool Cats]

A number of the quoted statements from family were made in summer and earlier in the year when the demolition was originally scheduled. IMO during the summer, when it hadn't even been a year yet.

Tearing down the house doesn't change what happened there and it's sad that people are talking about moving on already. Of course ECs brother will have a hard time with the memories regardless if the house is outside his window or not. Just being in that neighbourhood would be triggering.

Sorry WS, I was a bit harsh with MOO. I was thinking about little Murphy alone in the room and that part always gets to me.

Thanks for pointing that out. Ethan's parents were concerned that last summer was too soon but maybe now they are fine with it, not sure, but for the sake of their 2 kids they think it is better to tear it down because their kids still attend the University and one of them sees it out their window.

2 Cents

 

[whiterhino]

Thanks for pointing that out. Ethan's parents were concerned that last summer was too soon but maybe now they are fine with it, not sure, but for the sake of their 2 kids they think it is better to tear it down because their kids still attend the University and one of them sees it out their window.

2 Cents

Np, just thought it was relevant as time has passed since those quotes were said.

FWIW my own 2 cents, I am not against tearing down that house and I don't think it is needed for a jury or evidence. To me it seems too soon bc the trial hasn't started yet and won't for awhile. To say it's being done in the name of moving on it's hard for me to comprehend that reasoning from anyone outside the immediate family. Once the trial starts it will be all over the news and even with the house gone, the wound will open again. JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

Re the dog, I think about this a lot. He was probably crated in KG's vacated room (she had packed up and removed all personal items and bedding IIRC, hence one reason why she slept in MM's room). Probably with puppy pads underneath him for toilet accidents.

Now I don't know at what point in time that dog got removed by either housemates or LE but by the time of it, approx late morning the next day at the earliest, he would have been losing his mind.

He had probably never spent such a prolonged period alone in his entire little doggy life, used to being surrounded by countless people and passed between numerous caregivers. He would have been barking, yelping, crying, howling, and pleading for attention.

As far as a dog is concerned, it's either make a lot of noise, break your way out, or die. They don't know someone's coming or not. It's the end of the world. He would have been lonely, anxious, hungry, and needing the toilet / having soiled the crate at the very least. If he wasn't crated, he'd have been clawing and biting at the door desperately trying to break out.

In the room directly above DM? That's what I don't get and until there's an explanation I will never comprehend this aspect.

JMO MOO

You are right. I even wonder if the dog's barking somewhat expedited the murderer. And: I have no reason to disbelieve LE about KG and MM being in the room together, and Murphy being in another (KG's) room.

About the rest, we may only guess.

 

[iamshadow21]

The third floor had a sloped roof.

I recall mention of an opening to the attic above the short section of hall at top of stairs and at that time speculated that someone could have entered the home earlier while all the roommates were away from the home, hid there, and come out (close to where the opening to MM's room was) once they believed everyone in the home was asleep. So, there must have been some space up there.

Here is a link to my post back then:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 12

Who? A YouTuber who inserts herself into cases for views. imo

www.websleuths.com

Of course that speculation was before all was known about the white Hyundai's movements and timing.

ETA: Photo of house showing that both the 2nd and 3rd floors were single sloped roofs with a peak at one edge is in this article:

Floor plans reveal layout of house where killer knifed University of Idaho students to death: report

The 2,300 square feet home that also has three bedrooms was rented in June for $2,498 per month.

nypost.com

As I replied to another user, this is confusion caused by a regional language difference. I would call that a ceiling cavity, not an attic. An attic, in my region, is an actual room, not a void.

 

[Cool Cats]

Np, just thought it was relevant as time has passed since those quotes were said.

FWIW my own 2 cents, I am not against tearing down that house and I don't think it is needed for a jury or evidence. To me it seems too soon bc the trial hasn't started yet and won't for awhile. To say it's being done in the name of moving on it's hard for me to comprehend that reasoning from anyone outside the immediate family. Once the trial starts it will be all over the news and even with the house gone, the wound will open again. JMO.

I just found where it says the Chapins are fine with the demolition. Evidently they thought last summer seemed soon but it has been 6 months since then and they are fine with it now.

"...But Ethan Chapin's parents were supportive of the demolition. The Chapins said the demolition is "for the good of the University, its students (including our own kids), and the community of Moscow."

I agree that....
"Moving on" is a poor choice of words, the University President calls it "collective healing."

MSN

Idaho college murders: House demolished despite some families objections.

​

 

[iamshadow21]

The demolition made the news out here in Australia.

House where four University of Idaho students were killed is demolished

The house where four University of Idaho students were killed last year was demolished on Thursday, marking an emotional step for the victims' families and a close-knit community that was shocked and devastated by the brutal stabbings.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Lilly b]

There was a programme on sky i.d last night about it, not sure if it's only available to watch in the UK, quite interesting as it showed a sort of reconstruction of what happened

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Ok, thanks for clarifying.
Still a lot we don't know.

Yes there's a lot we don't know and IMO there's serious plot holes in what some people have reported the events of the morning were. I don't know if this stuff will be described in court?

 

[ktm44]

IMO I am saying the dog would have been barking frantically by that time

Whom it woke and how deeply there were asleep and if they are the sorts of people to sleep through barking, who knows. But at some point they did get up and that alone would have triggered the dog to distress call so how long was the poor thing barking and crying even more AFTER they got up and before LE got there? You'd have thought someone would have gone up to him to get him?

The PCA only indicates that Murphy was found in another room and nothing more. There has been no indication that Murphy was crated or barking and crying, even in neighbour interviews after the murder.

In my opinion, comments like this shift a certain amount of responsiblity/blame back on the survivours and there is insufficient public information about who/what woke them up and what time that happened and that void has been quite harmful for their reputations.

 

[Missyrocks5]

All of the below is MOO. And from the PCA and the article cited at the bottom.

Yep. Some time after DM woke up she heard the sounds above her that she attributed to the dog playing with Kaylee.

Long Story Short: My belief (IMO) is that DM actually heard Murphy the dog reacting to the sounds of Ethan and Xana being murdered. First. And the voice she heard shortly after was Kaylee's.

Longer story...

The info in the NewsNation article below has been floating around for awhile now. So I'm wondering who their source actually was. But if you believe it, and you line it up with the PCA....then you also have to believe the PCA omits what actually woke DM up from her sleep.

The sounds of a after party.

IMO, I believe that the sounds that interrupted DMs sleep the first time (omitted from the PCA), and woke her, were actually the final seconds of the struggle between BK, Ethan and Xana while they were attacked/murdered.

lso IMO as those sounds are waking up people in the house it also likely woke up and scared the dog Murphy. Who was probably frantically running/jumping/scratching around the room above DM. And what she hears after that is Kaylee's voice and not Xana's.

Naturally murder was likely not the first thing on DMs mind. And we see these initially innocent interpretations in the PCA. And we also see the slow realization of what's actually happening, culminating in seeing the masked person (BK) and the 'shock phase'.

MOO

Source: Surviving Idaho roommate thought noise was partying

The source spoke directly with surviving roommate Dylan Mortensen who allegedly thought the noises heard during the killings resulted from partying.

www.newsnationnow.com

I know at trial we will find out a lot more of what was said by the survivors. We only have little pieces of what DM said from the PCA. But of what we read, the article from NewsN doesn‘t sound accurate. Simply, there is no coinciding thinking it was partiers, and then standing frozen not saying a word as she saw him walk out. If she wasn’t afraid, why would she be frozen.

I guess I do see that it’s possible at first she thought it was partiers just from the noises. Then when she looked out that last time and saw him dressed in all black with a black face mask, then she got scared. So much more that she said that we will find out at trial. We only have this info to go by now. My heart breaks for those 2 roommates and them having to testify at the trial. Traumatized all over again.

 

[schooling]

I know at trial we will find out a lot more of what was said by the survivors. We only have little pieces of what DM said from the PCA. But of what we read, the article from NewsN doesn‘t sound accurate. Simply, there is no coinciding thinking it was partiers, and then standing frozen not saying a word as she saw him walk out. If she wasn’t afraid, why would she be frozen.

I guess I do see that it’s possible at first she thought it was partiers just from the noises. Then when she looked out that last time and saw him dressed in all black with a black face mask, then she got scared. So much more that she said that we will find out at trial. We only have this info to go by now. My heart breaks for those 2 roommates and them having to testify at the trial. Traumatized all over again.

Ya. I'm not saying that DM was naive to what was going on the entire time. I'm saying that she was trying to rationalize what she heard vs what she knew/expected. Leading to denial / shock. Your roommates being murdered is just not something you'd ever imagine happening. Thats not based on any professional opinion of course. Just from putting myself in her shoes.

MOO

For 2 years I lived in a off-campus home at a major east coast university (30k-40k students) with 4 other guys.

Our house's proximity to downtown made it a popular pre-game and/or after hours spot. Our only rule was that on weekdays we weren't allowed to bring anyone back with us.

On the nights that I would stay in I was fully prepared to be awoken at 2am by sounds.

There was a rhythm and familiarity with it all...

Weekday? I'll assume it's a clumsy drunken roommate going to the bathroom or eating. I might be annoyed but I'm going to fall back asleep almost immediately.

Weekends? If there's more than one voice and I'm not completely annoyed then I'm probably going to listen for who they might have brought back. Is it his ex? Is it that person I don't like? Is it a new girl? Does the voice sound familiar? Is this FOMO setting in? Should I get up and get out of bed? Somtimes I would go to the bathroom and pass by complete strangers. One time one of those times a complete strangers punched 3 holes into our walls before we threw him out.

The vast majority of the time I would never utter a word or leave my room and eventually fall back to sleep. Never feared for my life. This was all totally normal to me/us.

If i was laying in the bed at 2:30am awoken by sounds. And you asked me to create a list of 1-100000 possible things going on in the house at that moment. Murder wouldn't be on it. As I'm rationalizing every subsequent sound "wait..that doesn't sound right but could be..." that list would probably change.

MOO

Quick Edit: Just to add. On the rare weekend friday or saturday that I wouldn't go out, I would often lock my door. Because I knew a drunk roommate or a mutual friend who came back with them would likely drunkenly pop in. "Why didn't you come out tonight!?" or "Get up and come hang out with us!" or "You better be coming out tomorrow!"

 

[Missyrocks5]

Ya. I'm not saying that DM was naive to what was going on the entire time. I'm saying that she was trying to rationalize what she heard vs what she knew/expected. Leading to denial / shock. Your roommates being murdered is just not something you'd ever imagine happening. Thats not based on any professional opinion of course. Just from putting myself in her shoes.

MOO

For 2 years I lived in a off-campus home at a major east coast university (30k-40k students) with 4 other guys.

Our house's proximity to downtown made it a popular pre-game and/or after hours spot. Our only rule was that on weekdays we weren't allowed to bring anyone back with us.

On the nights that I would stay in I was fully prepared to be awoken at 2am by sounds.

There was a rhythm and familiarity with it all...

Weekday? I'll assume it's a clumsy drunken roommate going to the bathroom or eating. I might be annoyed but I'm going to fall back asleep almost immediately.

Weekends? If there's more than one voice and I'm not completely annoyed then I'm probably going to listen for who they might have brought back. Is it there ex? Is it that person Id on't like? Is it a new girl? Does the voice sound familiar? Is this FOMO setting in? Should I get up and get out of bed? Somtimes I would go to the bathroom and pass by complete strangers. One time one of those strangers punched 3 holes into our walls before we threw him out.

That was all totally normal to me/us.

If i was laying in the bed at 2:30am awoken by sounds. And you asked me to create a list of 1-100000 possible things going on in the house at that moment. Murder wouldn't be on it. As I'm rationalizing every subsequent sound "wait..that doesn't sound right but could be..." that list would probably change.

MOO

I would agree there would be no way my mind would ever go to anything like that, especially as a young kid, her age, and in that town.

 

[Balthazar]

As I replied to another user, this is confusion caused by a regional language difference. I would call that a ceiling cavity, not an attic. An attic, in my region, is an actual room, not a void.

In the Meriam-Webster dictionary, attic is defined as: "a room or a space immediately below the roof of a building". Definition of ATTIC

In the Brittanica dictionary, attic is defined as: ": a room or space that is just below the roof of a building and that is often used to store things"

In the Oxford dictionary, attic is defined as: "a room or space just below the roof of a house, often used for storing things"

Hope that helps.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

In the Meriam-Webster dictionary, attic is defined as: "a room or a space immediately below the roof of a building". Definition of ATTIC

In the Brittanica dictionary, attic is defined as: ": a room or space that is just below the roof of a building and that is often used to store things"

In the Oxford dictionary, attic is defined as: "a room or space just below the roof of a house, often used for storing things"

Hope that helps.

MOO

I got it, thanks.

 

[Tealgrove]

Healing occurs on its own time. That said, I think what is really likely to help the families is if/when the prosecution obtains a conviction.

JMO

I’ve waffled back and forth on whether the house should be torn down or left standing but in the end I believe the demolition at this time is the right thing to do.

The house itself is just a house. There is an emotional tie to the house by a lot of people but obviously it is stronger for the families. In the end I believe it’s more of an emotional tie than anything. It’s the last tangible place their children were in life. They can see it, touch it, and visualize their children there.

To be honest, I don’t think a conviction is going to give the families peace. I don’t think anything will give them peace and I understand that. I get it.

Grief is a horrible place to be. It will be with the families forever. Some will process it and move on as best they can. Others will have a much harder time and never be able to move on. The grief, anger and sadness will never leave.

A conviction may help some but not others. Their children are never coming back.

A conviction closes one door, but in reality a lot of other doors are still open and new doors will start to crack open (appeals etc).

These families have changed forever and they are stuck in this Hell forever.

This is much bigger than just tearing down a house.

I truly wish that tearing down the house and a conviction will ease the families’ pain but it won’t.

ALL MOO

 

[joyelle]

The third floor had a sloped roof.

I recall mention of an opening to the attic above the short section of hall at top of stairs and at that time speculated that someone could have entered the home earlier while all the roommates were away from the home, hid there, and come out (close to where the opening to MM's room was) once they believed everyone in the home was asleep. So, there must have been some space up there.

Here is a link to my post back then:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 12

Who? A YouTuber who inserts herself into cases for views. imo

www.websleuths.com

Of course that speculation was before all was known about the white Hyundai's movements and timing.

ETA: Photo of house showing that both the 2nd and 3rd floors were single sloped roofs with a peak at one edge is in this article:

Floor plans reveal layout of house where killer knifed University of Idaho students to death: report

The 2,300 square feet home that also has three bedrooms was rented in June for $2,498 per month.

nypost.com

I noticed something new (to me at least) in the demolition photos. It looks like there was an attic over the 2nd floor as well, with an access hatch just under the window on the north wall of Kaylee's room. This would have been a much easier space to crawl into than the attic over the hallway, and to avoid detection, especially since the room was not being used. You can see it pretty clearly in this photo from CNN:

full article here:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/28/us/idaho-student-murders-home-demolished/index.html

 

[iamshadow21]

I noticed something new (to me at least) in the demolition photos. It looks like there was an attic over the 2nd floor as well, with an access hatch just under the window on the north wall of Kaylee's room. This would have been a much easier space to crawl into than the attic over the hallway, and to avoid detection, especially since the room was not being used. You can see it pretty clearly in this photo from CNN:

full article here:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/28/us/idaho-student-murders-home-demolished/index.html

That wouldn't work if the dog was in there, because if the perpetrator had been in that room, it would be considered part of the crime scene, and we know Murphy was not in the crime scene. If he was somewhere else in the home, fair enough.

MOO