4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #95

[OckhamsRazor22]

The crime seems to be a peculiar mix of preparedness and chaos.

Whatever his mission, THAT NIGHT he didn't abort. Wasn't detered by the police presence around his apartment, wasn't detered by the fog, wasn't detered by having his phone along, but something slowed him up once he got in the vicinity... made several passes. Whatever held him back didn't ultimately deter him.

I do think he mentally planned for quite some time. Had a murder weapon, had a target, ran reconnaissance. May have doctored his vehicle -- messed with the license plate -- lined the interior -- assembled a kill kit -- weapon/s, sheath/s, gloves, mask, overalls, etc.

I think D may have been right, that it WAS K who said they're was someone there -- perhaps Murphy reacted to the door dash delivery or to BK, and K moved to quiet him before he might start to bark, waking everyone up. Puts Murphy in her room, climbs up and over M who is 98% asleep, and yells her 'there's sometime here' -- not in alarm, by way of explaining Murphy stirring. Nothing to worry about, just someone's here.

Even possible that more was said, of which D only heard the part: there's someone here, but it's ok -- he (door dash) drove away.

If all the bedrooms had locks, why wasn't M's door locked? Why did BK assume he could get past locked doors?

Hot prowler? Was BK an accomplished lockpicker? DID he pick a lock?

With all his planning, it would seem he failed fullbore to account for moving parts, namely the movements of people within the house. Dynamic environment... IMO he simply failed to anticipate double occupancy in M's bed, awake subjects within the home. 4 am may have seemed like a safe bet....

One wonders what stopped him from entering on the previous passes...

All his countermeasures for naught when he left his DNA on the bed (in the snap well of his Kbar sheath)...

So maybe he was wearing fillet gloves and that's why he was able to leave the house without realizing he had no sheath, he was double-protected, by hilt and glove.

Or... BK brought backup. TWO Kbar knives, TWO sheaths -- and left the house with two knives holstered in one sheath.

JMO

I still believe they were both dead when the witness heard someone say, “there’s someone here.” I believe that was X who made that proclamation before trying to get back to her bedroom and E. I believe she had deposited the empty DoorDash bags and containers in the kitchen before turning to go back to her room When she crossed paths with the killer. I believe He was just at the bottom of the stairwell and X was passing in front of him before turning slightly to her left to cross the open common area and landing and uttering the words heard by D. She didn’t make it - as she was pursued by the crazed madman. It’s just my own opinion. Anything could have happened in the midst of that chaos and deadly intent.

 

[iamshadow21]

I still believe they were both dead when the witness heard someone say, “there’s someone here.” I believe that was X who made that proclamation before trying to get back to her bedroom and E. I believe she had deposited the empty DoorDash bags and containers in the kitchen before turning to go back to her room When she crossed paths with the killer. I believe He was just at the bottom of the stairwell and X was passing in front of him before turning slightly to her left to cross the open common area and landing and uttering the words heard by D. She didn’t make it - as she was pursued by the crazed madman. It’s just my own opinion. Anything could have happened in the midst of that chaos and deadly intent.

I think what is important in D's account is that it does not include that she heard people running past her door.

Somewhere back in the wilderness of old threads, I think it was related that a previous resident of the home said that you could hear people moving through the home. That it wasn't a quiet house. I think the fact that throughout it was floored with modern lino, not carpet, would mean that the conjecture that people running urgently thought the home would be loud is a probability.

A pursuit would also give someone a chance to scream for help or in alarm... and we know that didn't happen.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

States that collect DNA at arrest.
Idaho is not one.

<snipped>. What Is The Arrestee DNA Collection Law In Your State? - Biometrica Systems, Inc.

In many states, law enforcement is authorized to collect DNA upon arrest, but which crimes qualify are very different from state to state.

In some states a probable cause hearing is required first, but in others it is not. In some states such a determination is made by a judge, while in others it is made by a grand jury. Still other states specify in their laws when the collected DNA can be analyzed or uploaded. Even among these states there is no uniform law. Some allow this to happen right away under certain circumstances. In others, they must wait until the person has been charged. Some include juveniles in such collections, and others do not. This is just a small sampling of the differences you will find when combing through state law on DNA collection upon arrest.

 

[Balthazar]

Ok, if you are about to go break into a house, when exactly do you put your gloves on? I'd think you'd do so right before you went inside. Maybe on the drive over too?

It would have to be before they left wherever they were staying, before they picked up the sheath and knife they were planning to use. Otherwise, there should be fingerprints on the sheath. But apparently there were no fingerprints on the sheath.

When did he touch an object that was full of BK's DNA. It wouldn't have been just a slight touch a long time earlier, because if all it takes is a slight touch, with an object that BK only quickly touched, then the killer would have a lot more random touch DNA on that sheath.

It would not have to be full of BK's DNA. A single fingerprint is enough to generate an average of about 100 skin cells unless the depositor is a super shedder, in which case we should expect hundreds more cells in one fingerprint. There were allegedly 20 skin cells or less on the snap per Howard Blum. This makes me think this sample must be transferred DNA, otherwise there should have been many, many more skin cells in the sample. To think otherwise seems like magical and unscientific thinking about this evidence, IMO.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/am-pdf/10.1111/1556-4029.14707#:~:text=Quantifying%20these%20cells%20revealed%20that,state%20of%20transfer%20is%20reached.

If that^^^ was all true, then everything tested would have dozens of other people's DNA left behind on it.

Not if the person only touched BK's DNA with his glove - a single fingerprint on something and then transferred the skin cells to the snap.

All JMO.

 

[katydid23]

It would have to be before they left wherever they were staying, before they picked up the sheath and knife they were planning to use. Otherwise, there should be fingerprints on the sheath. But apparently there were no fingerprints on the sheath.

It would not have to be full of BK's DNA. A single fingerprint is enough to generate an average of about 100 skin cells unless the depositor is a super shedder, in which case we should expect hundreds more cells in one fingerprint. There were allegedly 20 skin cells or less on the snap per Howard Blum. This makes me think this sample must be transferred DNA, otherwise there should have been many, many more skin cells in the sample.'

Not if he had cleaned it ---but just missed a little bit of it

To think otherwise seems like magical and unscientific thinking about this evidence, IMO.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/am-pdf/10.1111/1556-4029.14707#:~:text=Quantifying%20these%20cells%20revealed%20that,state%20of%20transfer%20is%20reached.

I think the magical unscientific thinking is what leads people to believe it wasn't BK's sheath, imo

 

[Megnut]

If someone were trying to frame BK, why would they hide his DNA in only one tiny place? Why not all over the doors, all over the sheath?

Just a coincidence then that BK was out driving around, his phone without a signal, at the very same time?

The Defense isn't even pushing a SODDI defense.

IMO BK's vehicle is going to put him near the crime scene, and his DNA is going to put him in it.

Noise aside, case closed.

JMO

 

[Justice101]

If someone were trying to frame BK, why would they hide his DNA in only one tiny place? Why not all over the doors, all over the sheath?

Just a coincidence then that BK was out driving around, his phone without a signal, at the very same time?

The Defense isn't even pushing a SODDI defense.

IMO BK's vehicle is going to put him near the crime scene, and his DNA is going to put him in it.

Noise aside, case closed.

JMO

Yes, agree. If nothing major is able to be disallowed by the defense, this case is pretty straight forward.

That's why many of us wondered why no plea deal. Maybe one wasn't offered or BK is that stubborn.

 

[Nattyj1991]

Yes, agree. If nothing major is able to be disallowed by the defense, this case is pretty straight forward.

That's why many of us wondered why no plea deal. Maybe one wasn't offered or BK is that stubborn.

My guess is BK is that stubborn. He won’t be seen making any “mistakes”. After all, he’s a criminal mastermind. IMO.

 

[mickey2942]

My guess is BK is that stubborn. He won’t be seen making any “mistakes”. After all, he’s a criminal mastermind. IMO.

MOO is that BK isn't going anywhere. He knows that. He is going to try to string this out. Sitting in jail, he is still "Innocent". I have serious doubts that trial will happen on the scheduled court date. He has nothing to do now, but craft plans.

 

[Balthazar]

Not if he had cleaned it ---but just missed a little bit of it

There is no undetectable way to clean a leather sheath and frankly, any such effort would most likely result in smearing the DNA around more. Yet we see nothing in the PCA that indicates the sheath was cleaned.

I think the magical unscientific thinking is what leads people to believe it wasn't BK's sheath, imo

That conflates basic scientific concepts. facts and logic with feelings and emotions. The extremely small sample size (20 skin cells or less) and apparent lack of DNA elsewhere on the sheath or anywhere else at the crime scene indicates this was almost certainly transfer touch DNA which belies belief this was BK's sheath. If there is no other corroborating evidence to prove BK was inside 1122 King Rd, THEN, in fact, it cannot be proven in a court of law or scientifically that BK was ever in that house.

We must agree to disagree.

 

[gremlin444]

Two new filings dated yesterday:

Memorandum in Support of Motion for Change of Venue--warning, it's 319 pages!

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/072224-Memorandum-Support-MCoV.pdf

Defendants Witness and Exhibit List for Motion for Change of Venue

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/072224-Defendants-Witness-Exhibit-list-MCoV.pdf

 

[Megnut]

Two new filings dated yesterday:

Memorandum in Support of Motion for Change of Venue--warning, it's 319 pages!

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/072224-Memorandum-Support-MCoV.pdf

Defendants Witness and Exhibit List for Motion for Change of Venue

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/072224-Defendants-Witness-Exhibit-list-MCoV.pdf

It's best to break it down IMO.

Her motion is 13 pages. Followed by about a hundred pages of LE press releases followed by BE report and credentials, comprising the weighty back end.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

There is no undetectable way to clean a leather sheath and frankly, any such effort would most likely result in smearing the DNA around more. Yet we see nothing in the PCA that indicates the sheath was cleaned.

If it wasn't cleaned, why wasn't there any DNA on the sheath? It had to have been handles previously without gloves at some point.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

A pursuit would also give someone a chance to scream for help or in alarm... and we know that didn't happen.

MOO

I never wrote that anyone “ran” past D’s door. Least of all NOT X. She never ran, she just hastened her steps. Her room is just a hop and a skip from D’s door through the small common area and to her bedroom.

It may surprise you that people usually don’t scream - as they do on the movies. Many times they are in an instantaneous state of shock, and with adrenaline coursing thought their heightened FLIGHT mode, they aren’t thinking of anyone aside from their own personal fear and safety. She had one focus, to get back in the room safely with E. Screaming was the last thing any of them would do. They were all caught off guard.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

He obviously planned this out to the letter. In detail. He made a definite error with the sheath. Yet the preparation is clearly evident through his actions. It’s what he DIDN’T do or LEAVE at the house during the rage-fueled killings which stand out the most. He had a kill kit more than likely. Either stashed nearby, or transported to the scene in his car that night, and left behind the home next to a tree. He had probably rehearsed it a thousand times. He’s one sick and twisted man.

 

[Boxer]

If

It would have to be before they left wherever they were staying, before they picked up the sheath and knife they were planning to use. Otherwise, there should be fingerprints on the sheath. But apparently there were no fingerprints on the sheath.

It would not have to be full of BK's DNA. A single fingerprint is enough to generate an average of about 100 skin cells unless the depositor is a super shedder, in which case we should expect hundreds more cells in one fingerprint. There were allegedly 20 skin cells or less on the snap per Howard Blum. This makes me think this sample must be transferred DNA, otherwise there should have been many, many more skin cells in the sample. To think otherwise seems like magical and unscientific thinking about this evidence, IMO.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/am-pdf/10.1111/1556-4029.14707#:~:text=Quantifying%20these%20cells%20revealed%20that,state%20of%20transfer%20is%20reached.

Not if the person only touched BK's DNA with his glove - a single fingerprint on something and then transferred the skin cells to the snap.

All JMO.

MOO The sheath was cleaned and the cells just evaded cleaning.

 

[Justice101]

There is no undetectable way to clean a leather sheath and frankly, any such effort would most likely result in smearing the DNA around more. Yet we see nothing in the PCA that indicates the sheath was cleaned.

That conflates basic scientific concepts. facts and logic with feelings and emotions. The extremely small sample size (20 skin cells or less) and apparent lack of DNA elsewhere on the sheath or anywhere else at the crime scene indicates this was almost certainly transfer touch DNA which belies belief this was BK's sheath. If there is no other corroborating evidence to prove BK was inside 1122 King Rd, THEN, in fact, it cannot be proven in a court of law or scientifically that BK was ever in that house.

We must agree to disagree.

I disagree a little. A jury is more down to earth than us technical web sleuthers. You can't prove anything 100.000000% even with a video of him walking in there. He could say it was someone that sort of looked like him and a doppelganger.

Only 1 DNA on the sheath and that of BK's ALONG with ALL of the other evidence would be very hard to prove he was not in that house by the Defense.

 

[arielilane]

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger​

Latah County CR29-22-2805

Case Summary (Updated 07/23/24)

• 07/22/2024 Defendants Witness and Exhibit List for Motion for Change of Venue
• 07/22/2024 Memorandum in Support of Motion for Change of Venue

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

Judge, John

Latah, Lewis, Nez Perce, Clearwater, Idaho

District

2

Watch

 

[Boxer]

I disagree a little. A jury is more down to earth than us technical web sleuthers. You can't prove anything 100.000000% even with a video of him walking in there. He could say it was someone that sort of looked like him and a doppelganger.

Only 1 DNA on the sheath and that of BK's ALONG with ALL of the other evidence would be very hard to prove he was not in that house by the Defense.

There is no undetectable way to clean a leather sheath and frankly, any such effort would most likely result in smearing the DNA around more. Yet we see nothing in the PCA that indicates the sheath was cleaned.

That conflates basic scientific concepts. facts and logic with feelings and emotions. The extremely small sample size (20 skin cells or less) and apparent lack of DNA elsewhere on the sheath or anywhere else at the crime scene indicates this was almost certainly transfer touch DNA which belies belief this was BK's sheath. If there is no other corroborating evidence to prove BK was inside 1122 King Rd, THEN, in fact, it cannot be proven in a court of law or scientifically that BK was ever in that house.

We must agree to disagree.

A small cell sample indicative of a
protected location.
The PCA only includes what is necessary for arrest and to support no bail due to proof evident, or presumption great.

 

[CKS]

I never wrote that anyone “ran” past D’s door. Least of all NOT X. She never ran, she just hastened her steps. Her room is just a hop and a skip from D’s door through the small common area and to her bedroom.

It may surprise you that people usually don’t scream - as they do on the movies. Many times they are in an instantaneous state of shock, and with adrenaline coursing thought their heightened FLIGHT mode, they aren’t thinking of anyone aside from their own personal fear and safety. She had one focus, to get back in the room safely with E. Screaming was the last thing any of them would do. They were all caught off guard.

IMO I have to disagree. The first thing people would do that know there are 5 other people in the house with them is scream for help. You mention their heightened FLIGHT mode and then think they'd run back to their rooms instead of outside and away from the house? That makes no sense IMO.