4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #95

[Elliot_Alderson]

It has nothing to do with lying. As I asked in the previous post, it comes down to whether or not we believe there is community trauma as a result of this case? If we do, then you need to find people unaffected by the events, rather than people traumatized by it. I sincerely doubt you can find 16 people who were unaffected in such a small pool. MOO

Why not? Again, that's why they have voir dire. That point was completely ignored. JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Why not? Again, that's why they have voir dire. That point was completely ignored. JMO

It wasn't ignored. I understand the point of voir dire having followed a bunch of cases. But it wasn't relevant to the point I was making. I'm not saying don't do voir dire. I'm saying, IMO, you won't seat 16 impartial jurors.

MOO.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Right, but that's even worse for the prosecution, in my book. If I'm a defense attorney, I'm saying "well now, how do we know you weren't right the first time? Is it because no POI was driving a 2011 - 2013 model, so when you found one driving a 2015, you decided to change the years to fit the POI?"

MOO.

Yes, things can work multiple ways. IDR exactly when it was first revealed the possible model year, and when and how that model year indication was changed or widened.

IANAL but would simply use the evidence compiled. And from what information has been revealed, it is somewhat difficult IMO not to believe this is the correct suspect, BK. And if I’m the prosecution, would have vehicle identification experts testify to what the evidence shows. And include emphasis on the close vehicle parallels and virtually indistinguishable features. That IMO works against the defense and BK, when properly presented and buttressed with testimony and evidence.

The prosecution may also be able to use the considerable background and interest this suspect had in criminal forensic investigation. And some of his college forensic interests and request for input. I can’t recall how much of that has been presented and whether that information has been ruled admissible or not. MOO

 

[arielilane]

Bryan Kohberger's defense team has filed another motion to have his trial moved from Latah County, citing the "mob mentality" within the county where he allegedly stabbed four University of Idaho coeds to death in their home.

According to court documents filed on Monday and reviewed by Fox News Digital, Kohberger's defense argues that the pressure to convict the 29-year-old criminology Ph.D. student is so intense that survey respondents said the community would "burn the courthouse down" if he was acquitted.

Full story at link...

Bryan Kohberger's defense cites Idaho town's 'mob mentality' in bid for venue change

Bryan Kohberger's defense team has filed another motion to have his trial moved from Latah County, citing the "mob mentality" within the county where he allegedly stabbed four University of Idaho coeds to death in their home.

www.fox13seattle.com

August 21, 2024

 

[Chloegirl]

Bryan Kohberger's defense team has filed another motion to have his trial moved from Latah County, citing the "mob mentality" within the county where he allegedly stabbed four University of Idaho coeds to death in their home.

According to court documents filed on Monday and reviewed by Fox News Digital, Kohberger's defense argues that the pressure to convict the 29-year-old criminology Ph.D. student is so intense that survey respondents said the community would "burn the courthouse down" if he was acquitted.

Full story at link...

Bryan Kohberger's defense cites Idaho town's 'mob mentality' in bid for venue change

Bryan Kohberger's defense team has filed another motion to have his trial moved from Latah County, citing the "mob mentality" within the county where he allegedly stabbed four University of Idaho coeds to death in their home.

www.fox13seattle.com

August 21, 2024

Very reasonable people live in Moscow. This might be one comment they received. I, on the other hand, I'm very exhausted by this process. I recognize that I could not be impartial and that I do in fact have biases. Most people here would but they think they can control that energy. I do not delude myself. Despite some folks wanting to keep it here, moving it would be better but of course that's JMOO.

Everybody keep their hats on, there's not a mob mentality here. There is deep concern, frustration, and possibly media stirring the pot. Moscow is a regular town with extraordinary events the day of November 13th. Again, JMOO.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I don't think you could place a few dozen cells in a snap mechanism oitside of a lab.
MOO beyond a reasonable doubt the cells are what was left over from trying to clean the sheath.

I'm not saying there's anything nefarious or planted about the cells, just you don't know how they got there unlike a fingerprint. Some DNA cells somewhere that aren't from something like a blood trail of the assailant or obtained from a rape kit aren't like a fingerprint, like if BK's fingerprint was found on some wall there that would definitely tell you he'd been there. Don't get me wrong in that I think it's his, but I don't actually think this tells you it was from him cleaning it. It being on the button snap more sounds like DNA got there from handling it rather than trying to clean it...it might have been missed from cleaning rather than caused by cleaning. If he was cleaning the sheath without gloves on I'd expect more DNA than just there, but missing a small nook while cleaning with gloves on makes more sense to me. There's lots that can be argued about it without even getting into claims of planted evidence, which would be harder to explain away than if BK left some fingerprint on like a wall or something inside the house.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yes, things can work multiple ways. IDR exactly when it was first revealed the possible model year, and when and how that model year indication was changed or widened.

IIRC, they came out with the 2011 - 2013 shortly after the murders and then changed it to 2011 - 2016 in early December. They found out about BK something like 11/29, after a parking attendant supposedly tipped them off that a student drove a white Elantra. The timing of the change is a point in favor of the defense is all I'm saying.

MOO

IANAL but would simply use the evidence compiled. And from what information has been revealed, it is somewhat difficult IMO not to believe this is the correct suspect, BK. And if I’m the prosecution, would have vehicle identification experts testify to what the evidence shows. And include emphasis on the close vehicle parallels and virtually indistinguishable features. That IMO works against the defense and BK, when properly presented and buttressed with testimony and evidence.

If the vehicles are virtually indistinguishable, then how do you know it isn't a 2011 - 2013 Elantra as they said initially? That's my point. Something made them say 2011 - 2013 and count out later years. What was that something? And why was it then corrected AFTER they had a suspect?

The prosecution may also be able to use the considerable background and interest this suspect had in criminal forensic investigation. And some of his college forensic interests and request for input. I can’t recall how much of that has been presented and whether that information has been ruled admissible or not. MOO

I doubt his college and grad school majors can be used against him unless they're trying to say that he covered his tracks well or something along those lines. They can use his behavior toward others against him though.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Very reasonable people live in Moscow. This might be one comment they received. I, on the other hand, I'm very exhausted by this process. I recognize that I could not be impartial and that I do in fact have biases. Most people here would but they think they can control that energy. I do not delude myself. Despite some folks wanting to keep it here, moving it would be better but of course that's JMOO.

Everybody keep their hats on, there's not a mob mentality here. There is deep concern, frustration, and possibly media stirring the pot. Moscow is a regular town with extraordinary events the day of November 13th. Again, JMOO.

I don't believe there's a mob mentality in Moscow either. I believe there are many, many, many people who live there just like you. Decent people with integrity who have been frustrated and possibly traumatized by the murders and the aftermath.

MOO

 

[Betty P]

There is still much discussion that some evidence is already available ‘showing that BK was not near the scene of this slayings’. Not exactly, parsing words here……. that evidence IIUC is regarding his phone or an electronic device. Not BK an individual. Or his body or person. It is quite easy to deliberately leave a phone elsewhere - in an attempt to thwart identification or try to evade criminal identification or prosecution.

That's the peril of discussing this kind of "information" on social media before the trial. If defenders say it enough times, people reading begin to think its true. However, these are usually factoids that don't stand up in court. Sounds like its just rumor or conjecture.

 

[Balthazar]

Agree- and the DNA is the only thing we know of that links him to these crimes, without it, his driving around in the middle of the night is just a weird habit. He has no criminal history, no connection to the victims, lots of people own a white Elantra. The prosecution needs to be ready to thwart arguments like yours- this DNA only means he might have handled that knife at some point (but he could have also once owned it and sold it, looked at it in the store, it could have been stolen etc...).

The Prosecution needs other evidence that proves BK was actually inside 1122 King Rd to get a conviction. Touch DNA on an easily moveable object proves nothing by itself. With corroborating evidence, such as his fingerprints or shoe print in his size and shoes he has owned inside 1122 then it is more realistic to think that BK was inside that house. However, without corroborating physical evidence, if I were a juror, given what evidence we know about, I would have to seriously doubt that BK was ever inside 1122.

All JMO, IMOO.

 

[Betty P]

This case is not that strong. Without that DNA he is just a random guy with no connection to the victims and a pristinely clean car driving around at night in the same state where a crime occurred.

-no motive
-no murder weapon
-no forensics from his car
-no connection to the victims

If his defense gets that DNA in doubt, he could very well be a free man.

That's often the way spree and serial killers present themselves. Yet, as in this case, there's often other evidence. BK's academic career provides much explanation for how he didn't leave a lot of evidence. But he did leave enough.
Its not unusual for killers to dispose of murder weapons, fairly common.

Motive? Sure he has motive, the same as most other men who stalk and kill women. Incel motives - the need to overpower and control women. Possible sexual gratification from the act of killing itself. Another motive we hear more recently "I just wanted to see what it feels like to kill someone".

Connection to the victims? Not necessary as a motive. Sadly, these kinds of people stalk and kill women who are complete strangers to them.

You'll need some luck to taint the jury enough to think the killer's DNA evidence at the crime scene isn't relevant.

ETA: Sorry for the edits, I'm busy with a 4 year old.

 

[Betty P]

It wasn't ignored. I understand the point of voir dire having followed a bunch of cases. But it wasn't relevant to the point I was making. I'm not saying don't do voir dire. I'm saying, IMO, you won't seat 16 impartial jurors.

MOO.

If that happens the judge will probably rule for a change of venue. It's common practice to try to seat a jury before taking that step.

<modsnip>

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

That's often the way spree and serial killers present themselves. Yet, as in this case, there's often other evidence. BK's academic career provides much explanation for how he didn't leave a lot of evidence. But he did leave enough.
Its not unusual for killers to dispose of murder weapons, fairly common.

Motive? Sure he has motive, the same as most other men who stalk and kill women. Incel motives - the need to overpower and control women.

SBMFF. Except he didn't stalk them.

Bryan Kohberger did not stalk Idaho victim before murder, court hears

The prosecutor was trying to establish that the defense has been spreading false information about the case during a phone poll of 400 potential jurors.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Betty P]

SBMFF. Except he didn't stalk them.

Bryan Kohberger did not stalk Idaho victim before murder, court hears

The prosecutor was trying to establish that the defense has been spreading false information about the case during a phone poll of 400 potential jurors.

www.newsweek.com

That factoid came from the unscientific "community poll" conducted and paid for by the defense team. It has an obvious bias. If there's a link to the details, including polling questions, scripts, poll design, etc. I'd be happy to read it.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

That factoid came from the unscientific "community poll" conducted and paid for by the defense team. It has an obvious bias. If there's a link to the details, including polling questions, scripts, poll design, etc. I'd be happy to read it.

From the link posted:

"A polling team hired by Bryan Kohberger's defense has been spreading false information that he stalked one of the four murder victims in the case, a prosecutor has said in court."

"That Mr. Kohberger allegedly stalked one of the victims, that's false...You knew that to be false?" asked the prosecutor, Bill Thompson."

 

[Betty P]

From the link posted:

"A polling team hired by Bryan Kohberger's defense has been spreading false information that he stalked one of the four murder victims in the case, a prosecutor has said in court."

"That Mr. Kohberger allegedly stalked one of the victims, that's false...You knew that to be false?" asked the prosecutor, Bill Thompson."

So a "red herring". How original. Thanks but I'm waiting until the trial to get my information.

https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/red-herring-fallacy/#:~:text=A%20red%20herring%20fallacy%20is,can%20be%20intentional%20or%20unintentional.

A "red herring" can be false and or misleading information to confuse the jury or the potential jury pool.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

So a "red herring". How original. Thanks but I'm waiting until the trial to get my information.

https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/red-herring-fallacy/#:~:text=A%20red%20herring%20fallacy%20is,can%20be%20intentional%20or%20unintentional.

A "red herring" can be false and or misleading information to confuse the jury or the potential jury pool.

It's not a red herring. I was replying to the comment that he stalked the victims. The prosecutor himself said that it's false that BK stalked the victims. I'm not sure how it can be considered a red herring when it came directly from him and was posted by me to disprove the narrative that this case involved stalking.

MOO.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

From the link posted:

"A polling team hired by Bryan Kohberger's defense has been spreading false information that he stalked one of the four murder victims in the case, a prosecutor has said in court."

"That Mr. Kohberger allegedly stalked one of the victims, that's false...You knew that to be false?" asked the prosecutor, Bill Thompson."

Not sure I understand the significance (or insignificance?) of this. IIUC then some might allege that the defense team is attempting to skew the results of their poll? Or possibly influence the public perception of the case? Or misrepresenting certain facts? Or even potentially to as some say, ‘poison the well’? At least that is how I read it.

It might seem that by attempting to present a certain ‘narrative’, how convenient then to march into court and perhaps trumpet certain things to be false? SMH.

Looking forward to the prosecution of this case and evidence presented by both sides. MOO

 

[Kemug]

I may be dreaming, but way way back, didn't we hear that BK had something in the glove box of his car that connected to the murdered students?

 

[Nila Aella]

Not sure I understand the significance (or insignificance?) of this. IIUC then some might allege that the defense team is attempting to skew the results of their poll? Or possibly influence the public perception of the case? Or misrepresenting certain facts? Or even potentially to as some say, ‘poison the well’? At least that is how I read it.

It might seem that by attempting to present a certain ‘narrative’, how convenient then to march into court and perhaps trumpet certain things to be false? SMH.

Looking forward to the prosecution of this case and evidence presented by both sides. MOO

1:23:00

The prosecution stated that the question regarding stalking was false.

Bill Thompson questioning Dr. E:

..."that Mr Kohberger alledgedly stalked one of the victims, that's false, you know that to be false."

JMO

I may be dreaming, but way way back, didn't we hear that BK had something in the glove box of his car that connected to the murdered students?

Here is the return on his car: