4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #96

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GRT said:
RSBM BBM

That's a real possibility. I wonder if his attorneys have said anything to give him that hope. He did look much less concerned about his situation.
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On the other hand, he looks unkempt. Not shaven. But he is young and the lighting is different from his mugshot.

It has only been one year and 9 months since his incarceration. This is not a long time for him to look radically different.

I believe we will see a whole different look when we see his prison mugshots in a few years. Most inmates look older...different...over time. BK will be no exception.

2 Cents

www.usatoday.com

Stressors from time in prison speed up aging process for incarcerated individuals, research finds

"Losing Years Doing Time: Incarceration Exposure and Accelerated Biological Aging among African American Adults" was published late last year.
www.usatoday.com
 
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Arkay said:
Quite interesting, thank you.

I agree about the lighting being the determining factor regarding his appearance between mug shot one and mug shot two.

I do feel though that he’s had a bit of a “glow-up,” in some subtle way. In court the lighting will be the same every day, so perhaps his team did in fact just smooth what edges they could.

However, I was surprised they didn’t have him clean-shaven for the newer mug shot.

JMO
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I agree. He looks haggard in the first mug shot, which is not surprising. His lips are kind of pressed together and his upper lip looks flat. It was the middle of the night when they burst in and arrested him, then he had his first night in jail, was flown across the country, etc. All of that is alarming and disorienting, even if you might be expecting it.

He looks pretty well rested in the new one. His mouth looks softer, possibly a result of becoming more comfortable in his situation. Things haven't been so awful thus far, etc. He knows he has a very good lawyer now. He might even be telling himself he has a decent shot at being found innocent. I don't think so personally, but he is welcome to tell himself that. But for a quadruple murder suspect, he's in a better place than he was when that first picture was taken.

His eyebrows never seemed all the bushy to me. Just having deep set eyes makes what eyebrows he does have look more prominent. Everyone's mileage may vary. :)
 
Megnut said:
That photo gave me chills.

BK, walking, in profile.

Just as DM probably saw him. Male, typical male height/range, and that brow. Whether it's bushy eyebrows and highbrow or highbrow alone, it's prominent. No wonder if stood out to her.

Perhaps a zoom lens, and whether intentional on his part or not, it's equally chilling that he didn't turn his head. If there is such a thing, I wonder if BK doesn't have actual tunnel vision. I do not find his head movements natural. Off. Mechanical. Robotic. Surely I'm imagining this part: it's almost as if where one might hear a noise and quickly turn toward it, BK continues to listen to the sound, evaluate it and bring his eyes around to it, a halfbeat, fullbeat or three beat later. I'm basing it on his behavior at the defense table and little else... but it would gel with his exit from 1122. He didn't SEE DM, processed her presence, but by the time it registered (if he did look back), the door was shut, the house was quiet. He sped away from the crime scene. That suggests to me he was spooked. Or rather, had reason to believe 911 was in play. I don't think BK registers fear; in fact, where mist people would experience fear, I think he feels something like a thrill, maybe even his only real feeling in a sea of general numbness otherwise. In any event, I think he realized he left a witness behind and made the executive decision not to go back in but to get away and fast. The convoluted route -- a dodge and roll maneuver to avoid being tailed.

I still maintain that he only had one individual targeted, and to that, I maintain that having that crime scene discovered (the one murder) was part of whatever it was he commissioned himself to carry out. Not at all unlike the arsonist who stands back and watches the fire...

JMO
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I agree. The blond girl with her boyfriend. The other victims were "collateral damage" to him.
 
LinasK said:
I agree. The blond girl with her boyfriend. The other victims were "collateral damage" to him.
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Do you mean X and E? (I thought X was a brunette.) Cases can be made, I think, for one, for all, for any which one, but if X was his target, I ask myself why he would bother to go to the third floor at all.

We may never know but to my thinking, BK miscalculated. He expected everyone to be asleep.

JMO
 
Megnut said:
Do you mean X and E? (I thought X was a brunette.) Cases can be made, I think, for one, for all, for any which one, but if X was his target, I ask myself why he would bother to go to the third floor at all.

We may never know but to my thinking, BK miscalculated. He expected everyone to be asleep.

JMO
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I don't remember their names well enough, but I had learned that he had targeted her through social media. This wasn't a random break-in. It was a stalking.
 
LinasK said:
I don't remember their names well enough, but I had learned that he had targeted her through social media. This wasn't a random break-in. It was a stalking.
Click to expand...

I believe the social media/stalking allegation was debunked many threads ago. There is no evidence available to the public that this was stalking or that BK reached out to any of the victims via social media.
 
LinasK said:
I don't remember their names well enough, but I had learned that he had targeted her through social media. This wasn't a random break-in. It was a stalking.
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The one that was with her boyfriend was Xana, who had brown hair. The 2 blonde girls were sleeping in a different room upstairs from X and E. I thought that if he were stalking any of them, it was generally thought to be one of the blonde girls, forget which atm. Then again, it was agreed in court that BK did no stalking of anyone. Debatable, imo.
 
LinasK said:
I agree. The blond girl with her boyfriend. The other victims were "collateral damage" to him.
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Well there were 2 blonde victims, Kaylee and Maddie. Kaylee had the boyfriend who iirc she’d recently broken up with and they were co-parenting their dog Murphy together.
Maddie was the other blonde (can’t remember if she currently had a boyfriend she was with at that time) and worked at the Mad Greek restaurant.

Personally, I can’t make up my mind whether Kaylee or Maddie was his prime target but leaning toward Maddie as I think he may have seen and fixated on her at the restaurant which served vegan food. And agree, the other victims (Xana & Ethan) were collateral damage.
Such a heartbreaking, sad case.

IMHOO
 
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Point of clarification. Where words matter. Was the case made that none of the victims was stalked (is there a legal definition for stalking? Does it require awareness on the side of the stalkee?). Or was the case made that no evidence of stalking had been presented?

Rumors don't come from nowhere, the Defense introduced the notion in their controversial polling, but LE and the State have remained quite mum on the subject. Parsing words?

As always, my eyes/ears will be on the trial, the proper place for the actual evidence to be admitted for the jury. For now, I'll reserve judgment one way or the other, in this regard.

It is my strong belief that there was a nexus and it occurred prior to that night, whether on or offline, whether any one or more victims were aware of it, and that BK knew who would be one the top floor in that specific room and IMO expected her to be alone there.

JMO
 
Megnut said:
Point of clarification. Where words matter. Was the case made that none of the victims was stalked (is there a legal definition for stalking? Does it require awareness on the side of the stalkee?). Or was the case made that no evidence of stalking had been presented?

Rumors don't come from nowhere, the Defense introduced the notion in their controversial polling, but LE and the State have remained quite mum on the subject. Parsing words?

As always, my eyes/ears will be on the trial, the proper place for the actual evidence to be admitted for the jury. For now, I'll reserve judgment one way or the other, in this regard.

It is my strong belief that there was a nexus and it occurred prior to that night, whether on or offline, whether any one or more victims were aware of it, and that BK knew who would be one the top floor in that specific room and IMO expected her to be alone there.

JMO
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The words were pretty clear to me, but here's the quote.

"That Mr. Kohberger allegedly stalked one of the victims, that's false...You knew that to be false?" asked the prosecutor, Bill Thompson."

www.newsweek.com

Bryan Kohberger did not stalk Idaho victim before murder, court hears

The prosecutor was trying to establish that the defense has been spreading false information about the case during a phone poll of 400 potential jurors.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
fcavanaugh said:
Well there were 2 blonde victims, Kaylee and Maddie. Kaylee had the boyfriend who iirc she’d recently broken up with and they were co-parenting their dog Murphy together.
Maddie was the other blonde (can’t remember if she currently had a boyfriend she was with at that time) and worked at the Mad Greek restaurant.

Personally, I can’t make up my mind whether Kaylee or Maddie was his prime target but leaning toward Maddie as I think he may have seen and fixated on her at the restaurant which served vegan food.

IMHOO
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IMO BK might in fact never have eaten at the MadGreek. Not even take out. His connection might have been an inquiry, the answer to which wasn't adequate for him. I can think of two waitresses who might have had limited contact with BK like that but aren't alive to say so. We don't know that BK didn't stake out the parking lot, waiting for an opportunity (creepy!) to chat up a waitress (creepy! awkwardly), and again, I can think of two waitresses who aren't here to confirm such an encounter.

I sense a long, slow course of premeditated and much preparation prior to that night. That house, the third floor, no accident.

Very, very, scary intentional.

JMO
 
Under Idaho's stalking statutes, stalking is defined as a course of conduct that alarms, annoys, or harasses a person or would cause a reasonable person to suffer emotional distress, fear for their safety or fear for a family or household member's safety.


According to this legal definition, as I read it, it's not stalking if the victims are unaware. It's likely a crime but not the crime of stalking.

That's what I mean about parsing words.

I don't think we've heard the last word on how or where or when BK chose his victim(s).

JMO
 
Megnut said:
Under Idaho's stalking statutes, stalking is defined as a course of conduct that alarms, annoys, or harasses a person or would cause a reasonable person to suffer emotional distress, fear for their safety or fear for a family or household member's safety.


According to this legal definition, as I read it, it's not stalking if the victims are unaware. It's likely a crime but not the crime of stalking.

That's what I mean about parsing words.

I don't think we've heard the last word on how or where or when BK chose his victim(s).

JMO
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Agree.

Court papers said he did not stalk but this has absolutely nothing to do with BK DM'ing a victim or looking them up online.

No court papers we know of say...

BK NEVER MESSAGED A VICTIM...BK NEVER SAW OR FOLLOWED A VICTIM ON SM.

The victims had a publuc media presence so the defense can't say BK never even knew of them. Before internet this could be an argument but not now in the age of internet.

2 Cents
 
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Megnut said:
Point of clarification. Where words matter. Was the case made that none of the victims was stalked (is there a legal definition for stalking? Does it require awareness on the side of the stalkee?). Or was the case made that no evidence of stalking had been presented?

Rumors don't come from nowhere, the Defense introduced the notion in their controversial polling, but LE and the State have remained quite mum on the subject. Parsing words?

As always, my eyes/ears will be on the trial, the proper place for the actual evidence to be admitted for the jury. For now, I'll reserve judgment one way or the other, in this regard.

It is my strong belief that there was a nexus and it occurred prior to that night, whether on or offline, whether any one or more victims were aware of it, and that BK knew who would be one the top floor in that specific room and IMO expected her to be alone there.

JMO
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BBM

I do not think the first idea of stalking came from the defense in their poll.

We discussed the possibility BK had "targeted" one of the women very early on long before the polling happened. Maybe we just made that idea up so it did come pretty much from nowhere so far as our discussions went.... Rumors can start that way and morph into supposed facts despite our putting JMO, MOO, 2 cents, whatever at the end of a post.

But a mere two days after the murders, the Moscow Police Dept released a statement that said among other things:

"...based on information from the preliminary investigation, investigators believe this was an isolated, targeted attack and there is no imminent threat to the community at large."

Moscow Homicide Update

Later on LE said maybe the house was targeted instead of the people in it but that was weeks later. By then (Dec 2022-- BK hadn't been arrested yet and it was months and months before the poll) KG's father was saying in a number of interviews either his daughter or MM was targeted.

nypost.com

Dad of slain Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves says daughter or friend was targeted

“I’m just putting the dots together,” Steve Goncalves told “Fox & Friends” hosts following an earlier interview with the station in which he stated the way his dau…
nypost.com nypost.com

While one could target people without stalking them, it's not a leap to think IF there was targeting, there may have been stalking. We discussed all kinds of things about the residents that might have made them easy to watch including pictures posted to social media, uncovered house windows, & the Mad Greek restaurant. But at this point we do not know if there was any stalking-- the state seems to say there wasn't --nor do we know if BK ever went to that restaurant simply because somebody claimed it served a few vegan dishes. And frankly, that may not be true anyway. The website says they offer "vegetarian options." I doubt that advertising would attract someone who identifies as vegan.
Mad Greek Mad Greek Moscow - Google Search
MOO

Edit: typo
 
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Stalking?
IIRC quite early on, maybe w'in 4-6 wks of the deaths, Kaylee's sister and/or parents said that Kaylee mentioned to them that she thought someone may have been following here. Rather vague as I recall. Did it happen on campus, Mad Greek or ___? Of course after her horrible death, it would be easy, even natural, for fam or friends to assign great weight to a hazy comment or two.

IIRC in early days, there was rumor or maybe an actual stmt from Kaylee's sister about catching BK's name or phone number on one of Kaylee's soc media accounts.
Did sister make a connection w Kaylee's blurry report of stalking w BK making/trying to make soc media contact (saying "hi")?

Also early on, an MSM reporter (or maybe podcaster?) did an on-cam interview w a Moscow store (a vape shop?) owner or employee who talked about a group (2 or 3?) students in shop a week or so earlier who mentioned that one thought she was being followed.

Was not clearly linked to BK as the stalking suspect (using term in a common usage sense, not a legal, criminal sense).
Speaking of vague, blurry, & hazy, the ^ is all that comes to my mind on the earlier mention of stalking.
 
al66pine said:
Stalking?
IIRC quite early on, maybe w'in 4-6 wks of the deaths, Kaylee's sister and/or parents said that Kaylee mentioned to them that she thought someone may have been following here. Rather vague as I recall. Did it happen on campus, Mad Greek or ___? Of course after her horrible death, it would be easy, even natural, for fam or friends to assign great weight to a hazy comment or two.

IIRC in early days, there was rumor or maybe an actual stmt from Kaylee's sister about catching BK's name or phone number on one of Kaylee's soc media accounts.
Did sister make a connection w Kaylee's blurry report of stalking w BK making/trying to make soc media contact (saying "hi")?

Also early on, an MSM reporter (or maybe podcaster?) did an on-cam interview w a Moscow store (a vape shop?) owner or employee who talked about a group (2 or 3?) students in shop a week or so earlier who mentioned that one thought she was being followed.

Was not clearly linked to BK as the stalking suspect (using term in a common usage sense, not a legal, criminal sense).
Speaking of vague, blurry, & hazy, the ^ is all that comes to my mind on the earlier mention of stalking.
Click to expand...

Kaylee's stalker was also thought not to be connected to the murders. I haven't heard an update since then.

nypost.com

Police detail possible ‘stalker reference’ made by slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves

Detectives spoke with both men who told them they were trying to meet women at the business.
nypost.com nypost.com
 
al66pine said:
@Nila Aella Thx for links. :)

From order re courtroom conduct: For entirety of case,
Page 1. ¶ 1) B) No designated or priority seating for media.

^ caught my attn.
Did JJJ allow designated or priority seating for MEDIA?
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JJJ courtroom conduct order

Pooled Media Seating The representatives ofthe media serving as the pooled camera staff shall be seated in an area approved by the Court, as designated by the Administrative District Judge, presiding judge, Trial Court Administrator, or Bailiffsubject to a limit oftwo (2) media members operating the pooled audio and video recording ofthe hearing and one (1) mediamemberhandling the pooled still photography.

General Public and Additional Media Seating The public and members ofthe media, not designated as pooled camera staff, may be permitted in the courtroom as space permits on a first come basis. No person may reserve seats. No standing in the courtroom will be allowed

 
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