4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #96

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really? I want to hear all about him..how he was a junky..how he creeps around at night, how he has stalked women..all the details of what he did in weeks prior and after...honestly wondering if he has done this before...and what all has gone on near his family home base. Once he is convicted they will run codis on his DNA. mOO
I'm not at all sure the things you list would ever be admissable at a trial. I'm not an attorney but generally it's not permitted to try to convict someone of a particular crime because "he's the type of person who would likely have done it." Or "he did other creepy stuff so he probably did this too." Usually even a prior criminal record can't be introduced during the guilt phase. So even IF (big if) the state could prove he has "stalked other women" it's not coming in because it doesn't prove he killed these 4 people. And unless he did things in the weeks prior to the crime that are directly relevant, that info isn't coming in either even if the activities seemed "creepy." Think this all falls generally under Rule 403.
MOO
 
anything the prosecutors produce that goes to motive, planning, stalking, prior acts to inform the jury. That he is a weirdo? no that doesn't fly. That he was sneaking around some girls apartment when she wasn't home, his google searches etc..going through garbage cans at 4 am or something with rubber gloves on, moving trash to another property....trying to hide his DNA and hide evidence from LE.. They have to show he planned it and he did it and present the DNA evidence. They have to paint a picture of Bryan for the jury... a guy who drives around all night and goes running in the wee hours of the morning...past your daughter's dorm room. If I am on the jury , Bryan is a dead man. mOO
 
anything the prosecutors produce that goes to motive, planning, stalking, prior acts to inform the jury. That he is a weirdo? no that doesn't fly. That he was sneaking around some girls apartment when she wasn't home, his google searches etc..going through garbage cans at 4 am or something with rubber gloves on, moving trash to another property....trying to hide his DNA and hide evidence from LE.. They have to show he planned it and he did it and present the DNA evidence. They have to paint a picture of Bryan for the jury... a guy who drives around all night and goes running in the wee hours of the morning...past your daughter's dorm room. If I am on the jury , Bryan is a dead man. mOO

Lucky you're not on the jury - this is why we have trials.

MOO and all that.
 
yes it is true, but if you can convince me he is innocent , I will rally for him..so far nothing pulls me from the DNA. mOO
let me elaborate a moment.

the victims were killed with a very specific type of knife. a sheath that matches the type of knife the victims were slaughtered with was found underneath one of the victims. this sheath had DNA matching that of Bryan K.

slam dunk. I'm sorry....there is no logical explanation for that, there is no logical scenario where someone would frame him. there just isn't. mOO
 
anything the prosecutors produce that goes to motive, planning, stalking, prior acts to inform the jury. That he is a weirdo? no that doesn't fly. That he was sneaking around some girls apartment when she wasn't home, his google searches etc..going through garbage cans at 4 am or something with rubber gloves on, moving trash to another property....trying to hide his DNA and hide evidence from LE.. They have to show he planned it and he did it and present the DNA evidence. They have to paint a picture of Bryan for the jury... a guy who drives around all night and goes running in the wee hours of the morning...past your daughter's dorm room. If I am on the jury , Bryan is a dead man. mOO
BBM

Prior acts are exactly what Rule 403 generally prohibits being from used at trial.

It surely sounds like you are ready to convict BK before the trial starts based on press stories about what he might have done in the past. Of course, you have a right to your opinion and I'm sure there are other people who share that opinion. After all, the trial was moved in part because of the prejudicial effect of media stories on potential jurors. But wherever trials are held, our system of justice isn't supposed to convict people of specific crimes based on who they are, what character traits they may or may not have, what the press may or may not say about them, or what they might or might not have done in the past. And jurors certainly aren't supposed to come in convinced a defendant must be guilty unless he can be proven innocent by the defense.

Even if the rules governing criminal procedure did routinely allow evidence of prior illegal acts to be admitted at trial, I very much doubt some of the things mentioned above are provable nor are others illegal in any way. For example, I doubt it could ever be proven that he was "sneaking around some girls apartment when she wasn't home." The graduate female WSU classmate discussed in the media supposedly thought someone had entered her apartment when she wasn't home so she asked BK to help her set up a home surveillance system. (She never notified the police.) After he was arrested for the murders some commenting on a Dateline episode suggested 1) BK might have secretly broken in so she'd ask him to help her with the surveillance system and 2) in setting up the system, he might have left easy video access to her apartment for himself going forward. Those offering information and opinions included "an unnamed source" (always so trustworthy!), one of those infamous ex-FBI agents who are often later shown to have been 100% wrong about the high profile cases they commented on, and the daughter of a serial killer. (I'm sure it was hard for her growing up, but far as I can tell she believes her family background gives her expertise in analyzing all sorts of criminal behavior. I'm not sure that's true.)


We don't know if ANY of the Dateline suppositions are true. And they are certainly a far cry from having proof he was sneaking around the woman's apartment when she wasn't home!

Running at night doesn't make someone guilty of any crime nor does being a night owl who drives around at night. And while I don't claim to have read all the stories about BK's supposed past, I've never read he was caught trespassing near a girls dorm. (You wrote "a guy who drives around all night and goes running in the wee hours of the morning...past your daughter's dorm room" so I'm guessing that's what you meant.) Certainly he hasn't ever been convicted of or even charged with a crime involving a dorm location. Nor has he been charged with being a "Peeping Tom." His criminal record is clean except for the fuzzy decade's old 2014 charge related to stealing his sister's iPhone. Being a thief, assuming he was in 2014 (the disposition of the phone case is unclear) doesn't mean he committed multiple murders years later.

To make it past voir dire, potential jurors will have to swear they will judge BK's guilt only on the evidence presented in court, not on all the sensational stories about him circulated in the press. Hopefully those who say they will do that aren't lying or if they are, they are such bad liars they will be tossed anyway. (And lying under oath--perjury-- would be a crime too. Should they be prosecuted? Would lying under those circumstances mean those people are "criminal types" likely to commit other crimes?)

MOO
 
let me elaborate a moment.

the victims were killed with a very specific type of knife. a sheath that matches the type of knife the victims were slaughtered with was found underneath one of the victims. this sheath had DNA matching that of Bryan K.

slam dunk. I'm sorry....there is no logical explanation for that, there is no logical scenario where someone would frame him. there just isn't. mOO
I don't think it has been disclosed publicly yet about what brand of knife was used in the murders. It has been disclosed publicly that a Kabar knife sheath was found at the scene of the murders, but I don't recall seeing any LE information regarding brand of the knife.

As we've learned earlier on this thread, owners of various kinds of knives have purchased Kabar sheaths for their knives, but they don't necessarily own a Kabar knife.
 
yes it is true, but if you can convince me he is innocent , I will rally for him..so far nothing pulls me from the DNA. mOO

The prosecution has to prove that BK is guilty, the defense doesn't have to prove that BK is innocent. That's not how the U.S. system of justice works.

For the expression of personal opinions, anything goes I guess, but legal matters are very different.
 
Keep in mind the purpose of this document--it's a probable cause affadavit. It's pretty standard to summarize the circumstances from the viewpoint of the officer writing it.

(Bolded by Me)--As far as we know, the defense does not even dispute the match. They have full access to it. I'm sure they've run their own reports. They've never tried to get it thrown out saying it's not a match. That is what actually tells us all we need to know. IMO

We don't really know what she heard. We haven't seen any text messages that were exchanged that night between the surviving roommates or from them to the victims.

I think he does actually have a prior arrest for stealing his sister's phone. If he had no known connection to them, it certainly makes it more difficult to find him and it may make it more difficult to convict him, if not for the dna. But I don't think a jury would have any problem with motive--there are people out there compelled to commit these crimes. Most people understand that. IMO

Keep in mind, we don't really know any of this. Everything has been under seal. We don't know that any of this exists or doesn't exist--it's incorrect to say as fact that none of this exists.
IMO
My feeling about all of the information we received about BK after arrest, is true .
All of it, the phone stealing, the heroin addiction, the ogling etc. The public got a ton of information that we took as true and I believe it is. I don’t think you can make up the entirety of the background info of BK. It was fresh and new and many outlets reported . JMO
 
Odds are -- LE didn't plant the DNA. Odds are -- BK is a killer.

But, looking at an ABC timeline, and I think the Defense will probably use this, Kohberger's name first popped up because a WSU officer spotted a white Elantra and discovered it was BK's.



Nearly a month later, LE said they'd found DNA on the knife sheath. It could be they found it sooner but keep it to themselves, but if so, why did it take so long to arrest BK? He wasn't arrested until Dec 30.



The other interesting thing is that the State says they're not going to use the IGG DNA evidence in court. I wonder why not? I mean, they say the IGG was what led them to BK.

And they won't release the records that show how the IGG traced the sheath DNA to BK.

If they'd had the IGG evidence sooner, I would think they would have Pennsylvania officers going through BK's family's trash sooner to look for a familial match.

So, to me, MOO, it looks like the IGG DNA came after the car. That doesn't mean BK is innocent. I think he's guilty. But, the optics are odd, indeed.
Agree , optics seem sketchy.
 
Perhaps "parallel construction" is the proper term. I'm unfamiliar with it, but it sounds plausible. It seems they're trying to insinuate that LE became interested in BK when the WSU officer found his white car and then pings on BK's phone, putting him in the vicinity of the murder house that night.

I'm not "admitting" anything because I'm not arguing one side or the other. I'm trying to discuss what might underlie the Defense's insinuation that DNA evidence might have been planted. But, yes, I meant CODIS didn't find a match.



I could be wrong, but from what I've read, the DNA sample wasn't blood but rather a few skin cells. I think they called it "touch DNA."

AT seems like a pretty bright gal. We don't know for sure what theory she will put forth -- but I doubt it will be silly. It may be farfetched, but probably not silly. MOO

Your scenario is creative and I enjoyed reading it, but I doubt a dirty cop/investigator/agent/lab tech would think along those lines. Not in reality. That's kind of a hindsight scenario. MOO

I really have no clue what AT will present, I'm just second-guessing, like everyone else here.
AT will almost certainly posit something “silly or far- fetched” :hiking and watching the cloudy night sky in the middle of the night , in the bitter cold.
 
yes it is true, but if you can convince me he is innocent , I will rally for him..so far nothing pulls me from the DNA. mOO

And people are capable of having an opinion now... only to go into the trial as a juror and forget all that and be objective with what is presented. That happen all the time with high profile cases.

That is easily done.

Imagine if juries were only made up of people from Moscow "who had never heard anything about this murder" and didn;t have any opinion on it.... you'd get a lot of people who live on the fringes and not a true "jury of your peers". And a lot of people would not be honest because 805 of people think that if someone gets arrested, they are guilty. The law is explicit. You can't cherry pick ignoramuses.. although sometimes you wonder.

You can have your opinion... but can you put that aside to hear the testimony and evidence objectively? YES I CAN
 
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anything the prosecutors produce that goes to motive, planning, stalking, prior acts to inform the jury. That he is a weirdo? no that doesn't fly. That he was sneaking around some girls apartment when she wasn't home, his google searches etc..going through garbage cans at 4 am or something with rubber gloves on, moving trash to another property....trying to hide his DNA and hide evidence from LE.. They have to show he planned it and he did it and present the DNA evidence. They have to paint a picture of Bryan for the jury... a guy who drives around all night and goes running in the wee hours of the morning...past your daughter's dorm room. If I am on the jury , Bryan is a dead man. mOO
Here's a way the prosecution can get it into trial: From: https://isc.idaho.gov/ire404b

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really? I want to hear all about him..how he was a junky..how he creeps around at night, how he has stalked women..all the details of what he did in weeks prior and after...honestly wondering if he has done this before...and what all has gone on near his family home base. Once he is convicted they will run codis on his DNA. mOO
They already ran CODIS on BK's DNA right after the murders, it wasn't in the system.

I also think he's done some other types of creepy, weird and possibly illegal things. I can't get past BK's parents being called in to the GJ proceedings in PA, which they then shared with ID. Wonder what that was about?

Seems to me, IMO, BK has some previous skeletons in his closet. Why was he removed from a HS elective and forced to move to a male populated only A/C mechanical course? That doesn't just happen on a whim.

JMO
 
for instance if ...the keyword being if..it is an example. Thanks though..it was not meant to be literal, just a hypothetical of how things come into a trial. :). mOO
Ok, sure. Evidence of an act that's an element of the charge brought may certainly come in. IF he was charged with concealing evidence, how he concealed it would clearly be relevant evidence. But whether he broke into a classmate's apartment so she'd have him help her with a home surveillance system that he could later use to spy on her seems irrelevant to the charges brought (even in the unlikely event it could be proven the situation with the classmate actually happened.) And if there is evidence he routinely ran and/or drove around at night, that would seem to me to be evidence favorable to the defense, not the state. It would show his behavior wasn't unusual that particular night.
MOO
 

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