50/60 year old Amnesia Victim Savannah, GA Thread #2

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I don't know I think some things like broken bones in the arms or legs are obvious so x-rays may not be necessary. I'm sure they may have some blood work, but they aren't going to go above and beyond to try and figure out someones whole medical history in the ER their job is to save people. The times I have gone to ER they don't always do x-rays,they don't always take blood. They have ways of telling if there are things they should be testing for without running a person through every machine at the hospital.they choose where to send them on a case by case. He had the obvious head injury so I am sure some sort of x-ray was taken there,listen to his lungs for a pnumothorax(spelling), blood pressure,standard blood tests and drug screens.
 
I wonder if this man would have regained his memory on his own had he not been recognized by someone who knew him and being brought back to his family? Also, at link below there is another man who has been missing since March and it's thought that he may have amnesia.

<snip>
Joe Bieger, 60, lived most of his life in Oklahoma City, but moved with his wife, Patricia, to the Dallas area in 2005. (he was eventually diagnosed with global amnesia, a condition that essentially wipes the brain clean of all memories.)

Last Oct. 6, wearing a T-shirt and shorts, he left the house before 6 a.m. to walk his dogs. He remembers feeling ill, even worse than two bouts of dizziness and disorientation he had suffered in the weeks before that.

A couple of hours later, the dogs were found a mile away, their leash tangled on a street sign. But Bieger didn't come home.

Bieger has only tiny snippets of memory from the 25 days he was missing.

He remembers waking up on a school playground one chilly morning. He found a sweat shirt and cut off the sleeves to put over his legs to stay warmer.

He recalls sleeping under a construction trailer one night and at a coin laundry another. With no money on him, he has a faint memory of eating discarded french fries off the table at a restaurant. Jelly packets and part of a bagel were discovered in his pockets when he was finally found.

One unusual recollection he retained was stopping at a bowling alley and talking to a man who was in the midst of rolling a perfect game. Once he was questioned by police investigating a pizza restaurant robbery.

Another memory that came back to him weeks later is stopping at a red brick church. He even remembered the name and that it was a mostly African-American congregation. He and his family later tracked down the church and stopped there to talk to people who remember their encounter with Bieger.

"They said I walked up on their Halloween carnival. I talked about my grandkids and that I had lost my car keys," Bieger said. They said he also claimed he was a volunteer at a nearby Habitat for Humanity work site, which wasn't true.
</snip>

More at link: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=594166
 
Another man who had severe amnesia below. I seriously wonder if it will take someone recognizing BK to bring back his identity to him.

<snip>
He had been living as a homeless man in Chicago, staying at a shelter called the Pacific Gardens Mission. He could remember nothing of his former existence except a semblance of his name: Jay Tower. One of his homeless buddies in the shelter had been watching "America's Most Wanted" and recognized him.
</snip>

also from article:
<snip>
Power was haunted by the memories of the friends he lost while fighting in Vietnam. The psychological pain was dredged up after a narrow escape from the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11.
</snip>

ETA: This man still had no memories of his family or any memories of his life and at the time of the article was reacquainting himself with a family and world he has no recollection of.

More at link below:
Homeless Man Discovered to Be Lawyer With Amnesia
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=1629645&page=1
 
There are others listed on the web who suffer from prolonged severe amnesia. Most of the cases are believed to have been caused by severe stress or PTSD.
 
What about ECT? Could the treatments cause the type of memory loss that BK has?
 
Al B: Im not trying to make light of your own personal experiences whilst in the ER but did you arrive there in a unconscious state with blunt force trauma to the head? That may be why your experience was completely different than one would experience with severe head trauma and LOC.

In reference to the surgery that SS was questioning could not have been the eye surgery as it states that he was functionally blind whilst recovering from recent surgery.

SS: Good question! I didnt even notice that! Eagle eyes and a quick mind. Lethal combination!

After reading a ton of articles about amnesia it is the general consensus that even with ungraded retrograde amnesia (what Mr. Kyle has) there are still some memories retained as long term memories are the hardest to disturb. These memories, however, are autobiographical, are usually from childhood and often times lead no clues to identity. Most articles also mentioned significant loss of memories not concerning self, such as presidents, important news events etc.

Id like to point out that in the only two documented cases that I came across of true URA both gentleman had some memory retention even though it was insignificant and they were unable to put meaning to the memories themselves. The important part is that there have been no documented cases of a person having amnesia so severe (ungraded) that they remembered absolutely no details of their former life.

Two quotes Id like to refresh us on. One that I believe PhenolRed reminded us of:
"It's like I have a 20-year gap," he said. "I just don't remember."
Mr. Kyle's approx. age is 40/50s which means that 20 or 30 years of his life are not part of this gap.

and another interesting one:
"He worries he might never find out - or, if he does, he might not like the person he was"

I dont know why I am having such a hard time convincing people that this gentleman was not given just basic keep him alive care. There is simply no way that this occurred even if he got the most incompetent, self serving physician, they would give him the best that she/he could give in order to simply avoid a malpractice lawsuit. Nor am I exactly sure why I have given the impression that Mr. Kyle was run through every machine and given every test available. I dont care if you come into the ER with your bone protruding from your skin you are still going to get an xray of the entire length of that bone. If you come in with any sort of trauma, abdominal, cranial, pelvic, etc, you are getting a CT. Im hoping that this stubbornness to understand what I am saying concerning basic emergency medicine is due to lack of knowledge and not for the purpose of being obtuse. I think I am going to just not discuss this particular aspect anymore as I am getting too frustrated over the whole business.
 
What about ECT? Could the treatments cause the type of memory loss that BK has?

Its interesting that you mention this because one of the most famous cases of retrograde amnesia was in a gentle man that had severe epilepsy from the age of ten that received ECT.

So to answer your question ECT would absolutely cause amnesia both retrograde and anterograde. It is actually one of the main reasons that this sort of treatment fell out of favour in the mental health community. There was no way of telling what the outcome would be prior to treatment. It was too unpredictable. I do think that in some circles it is coming back as viable option of treatment for certain disorders.
 
The reason I asked about it is because my sister (she had her treatments around 1992 or so) and my aunt (she had her treatments around 2002) both had ECT for severe depression. My sister at first couldn't recall that she had a son and that she was married. Those memories came back but she still has years of her life that are missing (not 20 years by any means). My aunt also has parts of her life she doesn't recall. I was just curious if ECT could knock out 20 years or so of someone's memories.

Its interesting that you mention this because one of the most famous cases of retrograde amnesia was in a gentle man that had severe epilepsy from the age of ten that received ECT.

So to answer your question ECT would absolutely cause amnesia both retrograde and anterograde. It is actually one of the main reasons that this sort of treatment fell out of favour in the mental health community. There was no way of telling what the outcome would be prior to treatment. It was too unpredictable. I do think that in some circles it is coming back as viable option of treatment for certain disorders.
 
The reason I asked about it is because my sister (she had her treatments around 1992 or so) and my aunt (she had her treatments around 2002) both had ECT for severe depression. My sister at first couldn't recall that she had a son and that she was married. Those memories came back but she still has years of her life that are missing (not 20 years by any means). My aunt also has parts of her life she doesn't recall. I was just curious if ECT could knock out 20 years or so of someone's memories.

Yes absolutely. The man in question of the article that I read lost 30 years. He could remember instances from childhood before the age of 10 but nothing beyond that. His memory loss coincided with the beginning of ECT.

My grandmother received this treatment as well. She was unable to care for herself for a good 6 months post treatment. She eventually regained her memory but later in life developed a very aggressive manifestation of Alzheimer's. I have no proof of what I am about to say, but I am convinced this is linked somehow to her treatments years ago.
 
Alcoholic or Drug Addict? I don't think BK was either a alcoholic or a drug addict. I think the hospitals would have noted any withdrawl symptoms. Also, would someone who was an alcoholic or a drug addict still be an alcoholic or a drug addict with amnesia? I think the body would still want those substances even with the amnesia? I think I'm confusing myself. I hope someone understands what I am asking more than I do, lol!
 
Alcoholic or Drug Addict? I don't think BK was either a alcoholic or a drug addict. I think the hospitals would have noted any withdrawl symptoms. Also, would someone who was an alcoholic or a drug addict still be an alcoholic or a drug addict with amnesia? I think the body would still want those substances even with the amnesia? I think I'm confusing myself. I hope someone understands what I am asking more than I do, lol!

If he was a drug addict or alcoholic his liver functions would have be en abnormal. It would have definitely been noticed by the hospital. Where did that come from? Someone's post?
 
Yes, somewhere on this thread (I think) it was questioned whether BK was an alcoholic or drug addict. I will see if I can find the post again.

If he was a drug addict or alcoholic his liver functions would have be en abnormal. It would have definitely been noticed by the hospital. Where did that come from? Someone's post?
 
The only reference I found in this thread to the question of whether BK was an alcoholic or drug addict was post #139 by SeriouslySearching. I thought there was reference elsewhere also. Maybe it was in the other thread that was locked up and then the new one started.

SeriouslySearching
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,499
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1760461&postcount=139

The fact he could not provide them with any medical history means they should have run every test imaginable to try to determine a reason for his amnesia and to clear him medically for internal injuries from a severe beating. Previous back/spinal plus elbow surgeries should have been found during the course of testing...shouldn't they? If so, why are they only guessing now?

There are many things we are not getting answers for here and I asked a lot of questions his nurse should have been able to answer easily...such as inquiries about his overall hygiene, dental hygiene, beard growth, etc. when found.

What did the toxicology reports show? Was he an alcoholic or drug user?
 
I would still like to know that if a person was an alcoholic or drug addict prior to developing amnesia, would that person still "need" alcohol or drugs or being they have amnesia would they not have the need anymore I wonder??

If he was a drug addict or alcoholic his liver functions would have be en abnormal. It would have definitely been noticed by the hospital. Where did that come from? Someone's post?
 
I have read a couple of articles a while back and for the life of me can't find links or the articles. One that I do remember is a woman who was very agoraphobic and got into a car accident. She suffered some brain injury. She had no recollection of being agoraphobic; she did everything that "normal" people do. As I recall, prior to the accident she had been a smoker but was not afterwards.

I will keep looking and see if I can find that article somewhere but it seems possible. He was found with head trauma.
 
His body would have recovered from alcohol or drug abuse during his hospital stay and without the memories of the abuse...it wouldn't be part of his withdrawal. With his body recovered, the part of the brain which controls addictive behaviors might have been affected by the same cause of the amnesia. (This would present a good case study in addictions and recoveries. Medically induced amnesia for severe addicts.)

The reason I questioned the alcohol or drug abuse is obvious. Was this part of the lifestyle he was living prior to his being found? If he were homeless and if we concentrated our efforts next on shelters around the surrounding states where he was found...we might come up with his name.
 
PKnowley: I think the a great deal of the confusion is related to his "nurse". She is the one that is delivering information that seems to be of question. I do not know if this is because of HIPPA laws and her inability to actually discuss her patients health status with stranger or if it is because she simply does not know because she is a tertiary care provider and would not have access to this information. I believe the later is the true answer.

I know in a later post you asked would he still be a drug addict or alcoholic after his beatings. I would say yes since half of drug and alcohol addiction is mental and the other being physical. It is a good question to think over because of the loss of autobiographical knowledge would this also lead to loss of addiction memories? I, like SS, think that since addiction is such a primal urge I dont know if one would lose that even with amnesia. All of this is such unchartered territory since amnesia is so very very rare to begin with. Especially to the degree at which Mr. Kyle is experiencing.

SS: I myself have long thought this. Perhaps Mr. Kyle has no living family members and prior to being found lived a fringe existence. This would explain the absolute lack identification. Good idea!
 
I will compile lists of shelters we can contact to request they put up posters. I believe BK already did this in the immediate area of where he was found.
 
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