8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[Nova]

Reports:

http://www.lohud.com/assets/pdf/BH14176392.PDF

The teeth are natural with many teeth acutely missing in the multiply fractured lower jaw and missing in the right part of the upper jaw which is fractured horizonally. There are several loose teeth on the tongue in the mouth.

At first reading, I thought, "Wow! The woman was a dental mess." But then I realized the coroner was describing injuries from the accident.

I don't know that in the midst of so much injury an abscessed tooth would necessarily be obvious. I don't think a coroner would be looking for one unless s/he were given cause to do so by the dead person's family.

 

[Nova]

I never concluded that you were a dude..not that it matters to me... I enjoy reading your thoughts, and your perspective makes me think and consider your positions regarding this very sad ongoing situation.

p.s. I'm a big fan of all the dudes in my life. :great:

Thanks and no problem! I know most posters here are female and I'm never offended when others assume I am, too. On the other hand, neither was I offended by tiredblondy's question whether gender influenced my reaction to the crash.

But I'm still not sure what she meant.

 

[Nova]

...I keep coming back to the possibility of her suffering a migraine attack....

Interesting theory, sharkeyes. I'll second your account of the severity of migraines. I started getting them a couple of years ago and I can only compare mine to an abscessed tooth in the sense that both are so painful I'd do almost anything to get relief. (My migraines are currently under control with medication, thankfully.) A migraine might explain both the aggressive driving and the self-medication.

I don't know if a migraine is something that can be determined at autopsy, so we may never know.

 

[Nova]

Hi Nova, :seeya:

This is in response to the partial clip below from your response to me last night or in the wee hours of this am.


quote from Nova
[Re gender, do you mean am I siding with Daniel because he and I are both dudes? Or do you mean am I making excuses for Diane because I'm a man defending the "little woman"? Either way, I doubt it; I wasn't raised in a family where there was much male bonding or condescension to women. But you if see evidence otherwise in my remarks, please feel free to show me where. ]

It is very interesting to me how you interpreted my gender comment. Both questions "do you mean" had to do with you defending Daniel or his wife.

When I said "Nova, do you think it's a gender thing?"
I was only speaking about you and me. You have been very rational and rather analytical where I feel very emotional which can lead to a difference of opinion.

I guess I should have added "do you think it's a gender thing that we can't agree on this?" so it wasn't so vague.

:waitasec: I see you struggling to understand many of our reactions and it reminds me of men trying to understand women :banghead: but... Oh My... that is another subject. I agree with Zippitydoda I am a big fan of most of the dudes in my life.

As far as the Hance family counter suing the husband, I feel that is in self defense and a necessary action.

Your last sentence in the above quote was wonderful and I thank you for it. You are always open to others opinions or new information. I guess you feel like you have come under fire here but you've hung in here longer than I would have. Although we may disagree on this there are many other times we have agreed.

I'm pretty sure we will never agree on this one but can agree to disagree.

You're trying to get me lynched, aren't you? LOL. No, I didn't think I was responding logically while you and the other women were responding emotionally. But if I had thought it, I certainly would have kept it to myself. :crazy:

If I made any sweeping generalizations it was that we Americans are still influenced by our Puritan ancestors and tend to be rather unforgiving of anyone except a totally innocent victim. I try to remember that we all make mistakes and the fact that someone contributes to his own suffering doesn't make him unworthy of my compassion. I don't always succeed.

I'm not blind to that fact that gender can influence our perceptions, and maybe we could make a prediction as to how a thousand men would respond to this incident v. how a thousand women would respond.

But when we get down to the level of individuals, I think individual variations count for more than gender tendencies. So, no, I didn't think you and I disagreeing had anything to do with gender. (As I said above, I don't even assume that other posters know I'm male.)

For the record, I've taken a little heat here, but I'm not complaining. Nobody has been unkind to me. Lord knows we all get a little emotional when it comes to dead children, as we should.

So of course you and I can agree to disagree. But I don't entirely disagree. Unless somebody tells me there's a way for something else to throw a false blood alcohol level so high, I assume Diane drank the vodka. And I'm not excusing her for doing so while driving, particularly not with kids in the car.

 

[Nova]

The Hances have carried themselves with dignity through this entire thing.

If they are countersuing Dan, that is a legal strategy to prevent Dan's suit from being successful in light of the enormity of their losses.

I probably should have worded my conditional statement ("if") better. My point wasn't to criticize the Hances, but to say we seem to apply different standards to judging them v. judging other victims of this tragedy.

I don't see why Dan Schuler and his sister-in-law aren't allowed to grieve differently than the Hances and Bastardis.

 

[elainebenice]

It's obvious that Diane Schuler was one of those "hyper responsible, tightly wound" people as described in the documentary. Having her mother abandon the family with the next door neighbor who was also a friend of the family - as noted by one of her girlfriends in the interview - had to be absolutely devastating to Diane at the age of only 9. The fact that her brothers renewed relationships with their mother probably did not sit well with Diane, and she continued to hold that "unarticulated grudge" which she discussed with no one. Now, put it all in a pile, everything stated in the documentary, the psych opinions, the go-go-go personality of Diane, the fact that she was a "very private" person who "didn't talk about personal issues and feelings with anyone" [not even Daniel] and even the autopsy - which, with the exception of the gross physical injuries from the accident indicates she was in very good shape - her organs are not diseased and are described to be quite normal in appearance. So, what would make someone who always appears to be so "in control" suddenly become so "out of control"?

She was definitely not in her right mind. What causes a "break" like that? Well, the weight of all the responsibility she had coupled with the constant effort to stay on top and one step ahead and only show everyone how "together" she was could have caused a psychotic break and she just "lost it" and drank/smoked herself into oblivion thinking "I am SO DONE with this crap, to hell with everybody...eff it!" We'll never know, but it's possible.

Also, I keep coming back to the possibility of her suffering a migraine attack - there's no mention of her ever having migraines, but her lifestyle sure is fertile ground to grow one helluva migraine, and there's a first time for everything. Migraines can mimic strokes in some ways, here's an interesting link; there are lots more out there.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5553933_confusion-aura-stage-migraine-headache.html

It's possible the onset of migraine might have caused her to reach for the bottle/joint to ease the pain - not condoning the use of either for migraine, just hypothesizing.

I get migraines once in a while, and the first time I experienced one I literally thought I was having a stroke...I could not see out of one eye, it wasn't black, but I couldn't focus (I was reading a box of brownie mix and all of a sudden it felt like someone dumped cement on the back of my neck), I told my husband I thought I was having stroke and we went to the ER. Anyway, every time I listen to people describe what little interaction they had with Diane prior to the accident, it makes me think of the possibility of a migraine playing a part in this tragedy.

Okay, I'm done....for now. Thanks for the space to ramble!

I also suffer from migraines. All migraines are different from person to person, but there are certain symptoms that are used to identify migraines and a person can have only a few symptoms or all of them. Unfortunately, I am able to check them all of the list - floaters, tunnel vision, partial blindness, nausea, light sensitivity, headache on 1 side of head and behind my right eye. These symptoms are progressive, starting with the floaters and ending with the actual headache. I'm sure there are additional symptoms, but those are the main things I think (not a doctor, just a dumb lawyer lol).

If someone has migraines with symptoms similar to mine, they would be very familiar with them (assuming they had experienced them before) and know what was coming next. Some people have medicine they can take once they experience the headache and this is supposed to make it stop or go away. These have never worked for me, only taking away certain symptoms, but never the ultimate headache. If she did have similar headaches and noticed the symptoms, I could understand her stopping for a headache powder or something similar that maybe had worked for her in the past to stop the headache or make it go away. I could not however, understand her starting to drink alcohol and especially becoming such an agressive/drunk driver. If I have ever experienced symptoms while driving I have either been close enough to where I was going, had someone in the car with me who could start driving or ultimately had to pull over and stop b/c I wouldn't be able to see to drive b/c of the floaters, tunnel vision then ultimately partial blindess in one eye. If she had any of these symptoms I just can't see her being so agressive and making "precision moves" while driving she was driving, as 1 witness in the documentary stated. She obviously wasn't so precise later in the drive, but my point is that I can't imagine her ever being able to see well enough to do that while having a migraine, especially when she was at the very least buzzed or slightly-moderately drunk (not as drunk as she ultimately became, in my opion). Alcohol has never done anything for my headaches whatsoever, although that really is the last thing I've really ever thought of doing while having a migraine, but that doesn't seem like something she would start doing b/c of a migraine in my opinion.

Oddly enough, there is something else that ties into this case that may have helped with her headache and that's marijuana. I know there are many opinions on the use of weed, whether if be medical, recreational or both, but I'm not trying to debate that issue, just share my experiences that are relevant to this discussion. I can say with almost certainty that "a friend" who also has/had migraines quite regularly was able to completely become 99.9% free of them by using a small amt of majijuana pretty regularly. It also has stopped or at least removed many of the worst symptoms and lessened those that remained the very few times she has begun to notice the 1st symptoms of a migraine since she started her "experimental treatment." That being said, I think if this was why THC was found in her system, her family would have been telling everyone the reason since they have tried every explanation they can think of so far. Even if she actually smoked during the drive or that morning prior to driving, which I don't believe she probably did, her level of alcohol intoxication and impairment from that completely overrides the same from whatever weed use there may have been...in my opinon anyway. I think the THC level found in her system was most likely from her prior usage, not usage that morning.

Its really hard to understand why members of her family have such a hard time admitting that for whatever reason she made a very poor decision to drink alcohol (any amount) that morning while driving, especially with children in the car and on top of that, to such an extent that she became "black-out" drunk. At a certain point there is so much evidence presented in a situation such as this that you have no other choice other than to acknowledge that the person voluntarily ingested the alcohol....or at least I thought this was the case before watching this family. No one ever wants to believe or think that their loved ones are capable of bad acts, especially those that cause so much harm, but even violent criminals have families and most are loved by at least someone who is shocked by their acts. Why will they not let this go??? That is my single biggest question in this case b/c the rest has really been answered for us, other than the precise reason she chose to drink that morning. No matter what, it is a heartbreaking situation for all who lost loved ones and hope that they all can find peace with this in their own way at some point.

 

[Nova]

Elaine, as you point out, different people have different symptoms. In my case, I just had the extreme light sensitivity and the terrible pain localized behind one eye. They tried everything from new glasses to dental work and sinus treatments before saying, "Yep, that's a migraine."

(Just between you and me (everyone else stop reading and go to the next paragraph!), I've found an antidepressant called remeron works wonders. Migraine prevention is an accepted off-label use of the drug. In my case, I still get migraines if I spend too much time in bright light, but the symptoms are so mild I don't even taken tylenol when that happens.)

Personally, I'd have no business driving during a migraine attack because of the distraction, but as long as I have sunglasses, my symptoms wouldn't literally prevent me from operating a car.

And I wouldn't dream of drinking vodka or smoking pot with a headache. My experience is that both make headaches worse, but I understand that other people have different reactions.

So while we can't leap to a conclusion that Diane had a migraine any more than we can assume she had tooth pain, both seem like factors that might have prompted her bad choices that morning.

And I suspect that's all Dan really wants: to be able to say a physical problem started a chain of events that included bad decisions by Diane and ended in tragedy. Rather than having to admit his wife was a closet alcoholic/control freak who simply lost count of her drinks one morning, or worse, that she was a suicide so selfish she took her beloved nieces and daughter with her.

 

[Nova]

I wonder how people would feel if the situation were reversed.

If the Hances and Bastardis were pushing for a second autopsy in order to get more complete answers and Dan were standing in their way, wouldn't most of us still be knocking Dan?

 

[Nova]

BTW, does anyone have a link to the alleged 9-hour call? I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the articles I've read.

 

[tiredblondy]

[Nova partial quote] "You're trying to get me lynched, aren't you? LOL. No, I didn't think I was responding logically while you and the other women were responding emotionally. But if I had thought it, I certainly would have kept it to myself. :crazy: "

LOL very smart man!

 

[sharkeyes]

BTW, does anyone have a link to the alleged 9-hour call? I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the articles I've read.

I found a couple other message boards that reference that call, but no specific documentation that references it directly or gives any information. From what I've read in those other posts, it was a 9 hour call from Diane's phone to an unidentified number made the night before the crash.

Nine hours...that's one long call, was she up drinking all night and on the phone?....did she somehow "pocket dial" and not actually talk to another person? If I come across something more definitive, I will definitely post what I find.

 

[tiredblondy]

BTW, does anyone have a link to the alleged 9-hour call? I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the articles I've read.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201007...r-later-A-lasting-wreckage-and-many-questions

Scroll down to the end of the above article and you will find the below information;

Correction, July 27, 2010
As many readers have noted, the mysterious call made from Diane Schuler's cell phone on the night before the July 26, 2009 fatal crash on the Taconic State Parkway lasted 9.7 minutes, not more than 9 hours as previously reported. The error was due to a misreading of cell phone records obtained from police that listed the duration of calls in seconds, not minutes. In this instance the call lasted 587 seconds.

 

[sharkeyes]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201007...r-later-A-lasting-wreckage-and-many-questions

Scroll down to the end of the above article and you will find the below information;

Correction, July 27, 2010
As many readers have noted, the mysterious call made from Diane Schuler's cell phone on the night before the July 26, 2009 fatal crash on the Taconic State Parkway lasted 9.7 minutes, not more than 9 hours as previously reported. The error was due to a misreading of cell phone records obtained from police that listed the duration of calls in seconds, not minutes. In this instance the call lasted 587 seconds.

Would be interesting to know who she called....:banghead:

 

[tiredblondy]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201007...r-later-A-lasting-wreckage-and-many-questions

This is the same article I cited above. It really is a good synopsis and I didn't know this info below.

page 2 of the article (article is 4 pages long)

Daniel Schuler first told police that he traveled to the camp on Thursday, July 23, and was met by Diane and the children on Friday. He told two investigators and said again at an Aug. 6 press conference that, "I went up there a day earlier to open up the camper."
However, E-Z Pass records show that Daniel Schuler arrived at Hunter Lake on Friday, crossing the Harriman toll plaza at 6:29 a.m., less than five hours before his wife and the children passed through the tolls.
That discrepancy was never addressed, but Daniel Schuler later corrected it in a Sept. 1 appearance on CNN's "Larry King Live," when he and his attorney said he drove to the lake earlier on Friday, as E-Z Pass records suggested.

:waitasec: Hummm?

 

[cluciano63]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201007...r-later-A-lasting-wreckage-and-many-questions

This is the same article I cited above. It really is a good synopsis and I didn't know this info below.

page 2 of the article (article is 4 pages long)

Daniel Schuler first told police that he traveled to the camp on Thursday, July 23, and was met by Diane and the children on Friday. He told two investigators and said again at an Aug. 6 press conference that, "I went up there a day earlier to open up the camper."
However, E-Z Pass records show that Daniel Schuler arrived at Hunter Lake on Friday, crossing the Harriman toll plaza at 6:29 a.m., less than five hours before his wife and the children passed through the tolls.
That discrepancy was never addressed, but Daniel Schuler later corrected it in a Sept. 1 appearance on CNN's "Larry King Live," when he and his attorney said he drove to the lake earlier on Friday, as E-Z Pass records suggested.

:waitasec: Hummm?

That is a very weird thing to be mixed up about as either you spent a night alone at the camp or you didn't. I guess it could be put down to the whole overwhelming and varied emotions when he first said that, maybe other times he did always go the night before, i.e. Still...weird.

I just can't stop thinking about this accident, and have thought about it a lot since it happened, and don't have any clearer idea in my own mind as to what happened and why after watching the documentary than I did before. I have known a lot of people like Diane seems to have been, and nothing fits. Secret drinking might fit, but nothing that would result in her possibly looking bad, and if she had survived, she would surely have landed in prison. So that doesn't fit for me. I think there had to be something besides the alcohol going on, that the alcohol made some toxic, unknown reaction with her brain or something.

 

[jjenny]

If somebody has a tooth pain or a headache, I don't see how that possibly excuses drinking alcohol and driving. The tests on her clearly show alcohol present above the legal limit. I don't think there is anything more to discuss, really.

 

[Nova]

I found a couple other message boards that reference that call, but no specific documentation that references it directly or gives any information. From what I've read in those other posts, it was a 9 hour call from Diane's phone to an unidentified number made the night before the crash.

Nine hours...that's one long call, was she up drinking all night and on the phone?....did she somehow "pocket dial" and not actually talk to another person? If I come across something more definitive, I will definitely post what I find.

Thanks. As I said above, if nothing else, I want to know how she kept her cell phone charged for 9 hours! Did she plug it into the cigarette lighter in the van?

(ETA the call is explained by tiredblondy, but I am still wondering about the camper

Or did the "camper" have power? I keep reading references to the Schulers' camper at the campsite. Do they mean something that fit on the back of Dan's truck? Because otherwise, I count two vehicles (Dan's truck and Diane's brother's minivan.) Who was driving the camper or was it parked at the campsite for the summer?

 

[Nova]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201007...r-later-A-lasting-wreckage-and-many-questions

Scroll down to the end of the above article and you will find the below information;

Correction, July 27, 2010
As many readers have noted, the mysterious call made from Diane Schuler's cell phone on the night before the July 26, 2009 fatal crash on the Taconic State Parkway lasted 9.7 minutes, not more than 9 hours as previously reported. The error was due to a misreading of cell phone records obtained from police that listed the duration of calls in seconds, not minutes. In this instance the call lasted 587 seconds.

Thank YOU! (Of course, the call may have still upset Diane, but there's no particular reason so assume it was related to the accident.)

 

[Nova]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201007...r-later-A-lasting-wreckage-and-many-questions

This is the same article I cited above. It really is a good synopsis and I didn't know this info below.

page 2 of the article (article is 4 pages long)

Daniel Schuler first told police that he traveled to the camp on Thursday, July 23, and was met by Diane and the children on Friday. He told two investigators and said again at an Aug. 6 press conference that, "I went up there a day earlier to open up the camper."
However, E-Z Pass records show that Daniel Schuler arrived at Hunter Lake on Friday, crossing the Harriman toll plaza at 6:29 a.m., less than five hours before his wife and the children passed through the tolls.
That discrepancy was never addressed, but Daniel Schuler later corrected it in a Sept. 1 appearance on CNN's "Larry King Live," when he and his attorney said he drove to the lake earlier on Friday, as E-Z Pass records suggested.

:waitasec: Hummm?

Certainly could be suspicious behavior. But it's also possible Dan simply made an error. Do we know how much time passed before he reported the wrong arrival time to police?

I know we all think that in the event of tragedy, our senses would be heightened and our recall of everyday events would be crystal clear. But we have all sorts of cases in various threads here that show people making errors when asked about events they didn't at the time know were important.

 

[Nova]

If somebody has a tooth pain or a headache, I don't see how that possibly excuses drinking alcohol and driving. The tests on her clearly show alcohol present above the legal limit. I don't think there is anything more to discuss, really.

I haven't seen anyone here say an abscessed tooth or a migraine (both of which are quite a bit more severe than you make them sound) EXCUSES drinking and driving. In fact, I think everyone has said the opposite.

If you're not curious beyond Diane's BAL level, that's fine. Some of the rest of us are; that doesn't mean we are excusing her drinking.