8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway

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I'm not so sure that his quest is to prove that the Woman was diabetic (it might be I don't know).

A medical examiner's autopsy uncovered no medical explanation for the crash - specifically ruling out stroke, heart attack and even diabetes.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/08/06/2009-08-06_husband_will_ask_to_exhume_wifes_body_in_disbelief_of_drug_find_vics_families_se.html#ixzz0NihKujVN


For me, I would like there to be some explanation that this woman did not deliberately drink and drive and put the lives of so many in danger, but the ME report and the BAC level and the alcohol still in her stomach are making that more difficult.

The end result is that she did drink and drive and lives were lost.

Should family and friends who knew about her problem, if there were any that did, face criminal charges? I don't know. How do you stop an adult from driving? What would have been the right thing to do here?
 
snipped



A medical examiner's autopsy uncovered no medical explanation for the crash - specifically ruling out stroke, heart attack and even diabetes.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/08/06/2009-08-06_husband_will_ask_to_exhume_wifes_body_in_disbelief_of_drug_find_vics_families_se.html#ixzz0NihKujVN


For me, I would like there to be some explanation that this woman did not deliberately drink and drive and put the lives of so many in danger, but the ME report and the BAC level and the alcohol still in her stomach are making that more difficult.

The end result is that she did drink and drive and lives were lost.

Should family and friends who knew about her problem, if there were any that did, face criminal charges? I don't know. How do you stop an adult from driving? What would have been the right thing to do here?

I would like there to be a conclusive explanation for exactly what happened too. In a post earlier in this thread I said that I really think that a second autopsy is in order. Just to either support or refute what was found in the first one.

As for charging a family member who knows that another member of that family has a drug/alcohol problem, and that they drive~ I don't know if that's even possible. I wouldn't think that it would be. I don't know if there are statutes for that kind of thing, or even statutes in that state. It would have to be proven that the Husband knowingly allowed his wife to get behind the wheel of the car and while intoxicated and drive off. I'm not sure it can be proven that he did, if in fact he did know?

I still haven't researched Barbara. I am tending to think at this time he is not acting as a defense lawyer for the Woman's husband in criminal matters but potential civil matters. JMHO
 
Noway, I don't have a link to it, but there is a presser out there with LE and the ME. IIRC, diabetes was mentioned. I probably need to rewatch the presser. IMO, how do you get past all of the vodka still undigested in her stomach?
 
Noway, I don't have a link to it, but there is a presser out there with LE and the ME. IIRC, diabetes was mentioned. I probably need to rewatch the presser. IMO, how do you get past all of the vodka still undigested in her stomach?

I don't think you can argue with the alcohol being in her system (BAC and stomach contents). And it doesn't much matter WHY you drink and drive, does it? I mean even if a medical condition caused her to consume large amounts of alcohol, she still drove while intoxicated.

I don't know where they are going with that train of thought but possibly it might change how things played out in a civil trial?
 
I would like there to be a conclusive explanation for exactly what happened too. In a post earlier in this thread I said that I really think that a second autopsy is in order. Just to either support or refute what was found in the first one.

As for charging a family member who knows that another member of that family has a drug/alcohol problem, and that they drive~ I don't know if that's even possible. I wouldn't think that it would be. I don't know if there are statutes for that kind of thing, or even statutes in that state. It would have to be proven that the Husband knowingly allowed his wife to get behind the wheel of the car and while intoxicated and drive off. I'm not sure it can be proven that he did, if in fact he did know?

I still haven't researched Barbara. I am tending to think at this time he is not acting as a defense lawyer for the Woman's husband in criminal matters but potential civil matters. JMHO

i agree husband and wifes do not have to sign for the other one to get there drivers license. i see no way he can be held accountable for her actions.

she did this, she drove that car not him.

now if it was minor. yes the parents would be blamed and sued because they have to sign for them to get there driver license
 
Many people are criticizing the Coleman family for not "reaching out" to the Weisses or attending any of the many community events surrounding the murders (q.v. on this forum). But I think the truth is that the Colemans' lawyers have given them strict instructions to stay out of the situation and not address anything that occurs around it.

what's "q.v"?
 
Noway, I don't have a link to it, but there is a presser out there with LE and the ME. IIRC, diabetes was mentioned. I probably need to rewatch the presser. IMO, how do you get past all of the vodka still undigested in her stomach?

You don't! And I don't care what anyone says - there's not a valid medical condition (outside the disease of addiction) that causes a person to drink that much alcohol and consume pot against their will.
 
You don't! And I don't care what anyone says - there's not a valid medical condition (outside the disease of addiction) that causes a person to drink that much alcohol and consume pot against their will.

I was trying to think of something that would make you suffer extreme thirst and drink whatever was arround, regardless of its effect ... (sort of the equivalent of having hypothermia yet removing your clothing, as those suffering from hypothermia do.) Didn't come up with anything, but I'm not a medical expert. Something might exist. Something on a House episode maybe.
 
q.v. is Latin for "quod vide," which roughly translates to "which see."

I was using it to refer to another forum here that discusses the Sheri/Garett/Gavin Coleman murders.
 
OK.. so according to what is known, now it's down to 2 possibilities:

1) She had a previous drinking problem
...a) and the husband knew about it
...b) or the husband didn't know about it

2) She DIDN'T have a previous drinking problem, but suddenly, for some unknown reason (mental breakdown- due to stress that no one knew about- seems most likely, as a 'stroke' would not cause a person to do what she did.... OR just a random glitch of bad judgment?)... she took a sip, which led to another sip, and then the booze just took over.. and she went down the slippery slope.

If it's true she did NOT have a previous problem,, here's what i want to know: how possible is it, that you can be mostly a non-drinker, and one day take a sip, and then fall into a uncontrolled binge so quickly.....??? Most normal people have a bit more control, even if they took a sip or 2. Unless, she had a repressed binge drinker inside, just waiting to get out, and something about the circumstances of that day triggered it. Is it possible for someone to go on an uncontrollable binge, out of the blue, if they never have before? to the point where it ends in tragedy? It just seems unbelievable.. but I guess it happens. I would love to hear what some professional doctors, psychiatrists, neurologists, etc.. have to say about it. Is this a fairly common (but relatively unknown) phenomenon... latent alcoholism in a previously normal person, that comes out all of a sudden, to the point of suicide...?
 
I know I'm repeating myself, but there is one explanation that could account for all her behaviors. Everyone is welcome to pick holes in this, but please don't just argue that "SSRIs could not do this because they are not dangerous and besides my sister-in-law says they saved her life." Just bear with me on that one. I recommend visiting cchr.org for more information FIRST. And I'm not trying to come between anyone and their medication.

All right. Diane knows she has a drinking problem, and she's just at the stage where the stress of her job and two small children and a husband who's home when she isn't and vice versa is pushing her drinking into the danger zone--even she knows it.

So she makes a decision, all on her own, without consulting anyone (because no one can know), to white-knuckle it. For a while she handles it, but her nerves are frayed and she has no support system for a struggling alcoholic that she feels she can turn to. Not AA, not a doctor, not a church, not a friend. No one must know. What a lonely place!

Maybe she has headaches. Maybe she feels sick to her stomach. Maybe she can't sleep. Maybe she makes an appointment with a GP to see if there's anything she can do to alleviate her symptoms and her craving. Or maybe she goes to her OB-GYN. She doesn't have to go to a psychiatrist at all. Anyone with an MD can prescribe antidepressants for anything from mild dysthymia to PMS to insomnia to anxiety to hot flashes!

Wow, that was easy! Easier than scoring herb! Free samples! She doesn't even need to go to a pharmacy and fill the scrip! No one will know. Twenty milligrams a day, the doc said. Make you feel a LOT better, help you sleep, you'll be thanking me. No side effects. Take them at bedtime, they might make you a little sleepy, but didn't you say you had insomnia? Call me if you have questions. Try them for a couple of weeks, see how you feel. Can't hurt you. I prescribe these every day. You'll be thanking me.

So she goes home with her Prozac (or Serafem) or Zoloft or Lexapro or Paxil or Wellbutrin. They work GREAT. She has energy, her aches and pains go away, she sleeps, she eats, she's more productive than ever at work. Those first two months are heavenly! Quitting drinking is going to be easy! No one will know.

She's flying! Housework, child care, work, no problem. Hypomanic! Having a great time! Can handle anything! Even a heart-to-heart talk with hubby, one that she's been too shy up until now to address. They're going on a camping trip, that'll be a good time for a good talk. This time she won't back down.

Maybe it doesn't go well. Maybe there's lots more stress. Maybe she's been sleeping a little less because of the SSRIs, maybe she feels irritable, edgy, like she could just pop. She doesn't eat well, and her blood sugar goes up and down, making her more unnerved.

Maybe she needs a drink, really needs a drink, just one. The doctor doesn't know she drinks (she may even have in her medical record that she's a nondrinker--is the doc going to check up on her?), so he says nothing to her about mixing alcohol with SSRIs.

Or she could have upped her dose, on her own, with the doctor's tacit or explicit condonation. Take forty instead of twenty, or sixty. It's okay, they're safe.

There's a condition called neuroleptic (i.e., psych drug) malignant syndrome. It can happen without warning, and can happen on a single dose of SSRIs or after a period of time using them. It's fairly rare, but it's real. Here are the symptoms as described in Wikipedia (and sourced):

The first symptom to develop is usually muscular rigidity, followed by high fever, symptoms of instability of the autonomic nervous system such as unstable blood pressure, and changes in cognition, including agitation, delirium and coma. Other symptoms may include muscle tremors and pharyngitis. Once symptoms do appear, they rapidly progress and can reach peak intensity in as little as three days. These symptoms can last anywhere from eight hours to forty days.


It didn't have to be NMS. It could simply have been a manic reaction to a suddenly changed dose of SSRIs. This woman was self-medicating with alcohol--why not prescription drugs?

So she's overexcited and emotionally distressed, and then she finds the vodka that came with them to the campsite. She drinks alcohol and the reaction to the mix of SSRIs and alcohol--and pot--are such that she becomes semi-psychotic. The SSRIs keep her awake and moving, but in a strange confused state. She may have genuinely mistaken the exit ramp for an on ramp, and she may have been in a manic drive-drive-drive state of mind that was aggravated by alcohol and pot and No one must know.

She doesn't want to be found out. She knows that. She doesn't want to say she was using SSRIs and besides, no one told her there were any effects from this drug that could be distressing or dangerous. She was told there were no side effects except maybe sleepiness. And she sure doesn't feel sleepy, she feels on fire, like lightning bolts are jabbing out of her skin, like her skin is quivering off her. So she thinks it can't be the Paxil or the Zoloft or the Wellbutrin.

She tries to calm down with alcohol and it doesn't work. The amount she's accustomed to drinking doesn't settle and steady her like it's supposed to. She tries to settle herself with a joint. It doesn't work. Nothing works. She's hyperexcited, confused and impaired and just wants to get home. And no one must know!


The author speaks from personal experience with SSRIs (all brands), considerable study of literature both pro and con, a medical background, and authoritative sources. Anyone wishing to know what sources I have is welcome to contact me personally. These are my opinions and speculation only.
 
My only problem with your theory is that and SSRI's would have shown up in her autopsy and I'm sure it would have been reported with the other results.
 

The author speaks from personal experience with SSRIs (all brands), considerable study of literature both pro and con, a medical background, and authoritative sources. Anyone wishing to know what sources I have is welcome to contact me personally. These are my opinions and speculation only.


snipped by me

You are welcome to your opinion regarding SSRIs, whether from personal experience or the experience of someone close to you, but the simple fact is that SSRIs WORK and for some folks, are LIFESAVERS.

I can attest to this myself. I have been on anti-depressants for many years. I take only my recommended dose, see my doctor regularly and realize that the meds are designed to balance out a clear bio-chemical imbalance I have that is hereditary.

Prior to using SSRIs, I spent years being functionally depressed. I missed out on many years of feeling even-keeled and able to navigate my life. Over the years, I've even tested the waters to see what would happen if I came off the meds. My symptoms returned within 10 days.

I am asking you respectfully to re-consider trashing SSRIs or trying to blame their use for any unfortunate (in this case, tragic) event. You may in fact scare someone away who might benefit from their effectiveness.
 
Have the results from the autopsy been completely released? Such as exactly if anything else at all was found in her bloodstream even at therapeutic levels?

I have only seen reports posted here where the ME talked about her blood alcohol level, liquid alcohol in her stomach and marijuana use levels.

Did I miss it?

If I haven't then I can only come to the conclusion that the ME released information from her autopsy that was considered pertinent to the cause of the crash.

I still say a second autopsy is in order. Just to make absolutely sure. No disrespect to the ME office.

ETA: if I did miss it please tell me where to find it? :)
 
q.v. is Latin for "quod vide," which roughly translates to "which see."

I was using it to refer to another forum here that discusses the Sheri/Garett/Gavin Coleman murders.

I knew goofing off during my two years of Latin in middle school would come back to haunt me. I haven't been on the Coleman forum since the husband was arrested.
 
It's a lot harder for me to try and believe any of these alternate and/or supplementary theories being suggested, by the family and lawyers and by the general public, than it is to believe that this woman was an alcoholic who was successful in hiding it totally or hiding the severity of her problem and this time driving blind-drunk (which you can bet was not the first time), she got "caught out." In a big way. A way that no alcoholic can fathom happening to them when they're in the throes.

When I was a practicing alcoholic, I felt like I was "getting away with it" if no one knew. Diane Schuler may have had this same delusion: nobody knows so I'm okay this way. She, like, so didn't get away with it. This was her big secret, and now she is displayed all over national, perhaps international, news outlets as the "Killer Drunk Mom." May God rest her tortured soul.
 
OK.. so according to what is known, now it's down to 2 possibilities:

1) She had a previous drinking problem
...a) and the husband knew about it
...b) or the husband didn't know about it

2) She DIDN'T have a previous drinking problem, but suddenly, for some unknown reason (mental breakdown- due to stress that no one knew about- seems most likely, as a 'stroke' would not cause a person to do what she did.... OR just a random glitch of bad judgment?)... she took a sip, which led to another sip, and then the booze just took over.. and she went down the slippery slope.

If it's true she did NOT have a previous problem,, here's what i want to know: how possible is it, that you can be mostly a non-drinker, and one day take a sip, and then fall into a uncontrolled binge so quickly.....??? Most normal people have a bit more control, even if they took a sip or 2. Unless, she had a repressed binge drinker inside, just waiting to get out, and something about the circumstances of that day triggered it. Is it possible for someone to go on an uncontrollable binge, out of the blue, if they never have before? to the point where it ends in tragedy? It just seems unbelievable.. but I guess it happens. I would love to hear what some professional doctors, psychiatrists, neurologists, etc.. have to say about it. Is this a fairly common (but relatively unknown) phenomenon... latent alcoholism in a previously normal person, that comes out all of a sudden, to the point of suicide...?

Reb,

I'm not a medical professional, just a garden variety addict who has been in close contact with addicts of all stripes and shapes for almost 15 years now. In my opinion, NO ONE goes from a drink or toke here or there to what was found in this woman's system (and the circumstances in which it was found in her system - driving 5 children home from a family weekend) in a less than 4 hour time span.

I mean I hate to say never because there's always a first time for everything under the sun and I surely don't think I've seen it all.

That said, I choose 1b - she had a drinking problem and her husband was unaware of this. That's the only scenario that makes complete sense based on what we know so far, and it is a scenario that will be repeated in other households across the world daily (but, usually, without so much death attached).

I've met this woman many times. I've been this women.
 
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