9 year old girl accidentally shoots, kills instructor with Uzi in Arizona

[al66pine]

I am going to disagree with some of you who are placing most of the blame on the parents. They didn't take the little girl to a field and just hand her an Uzi, and she shot it and an innocent bystander got killed. She was at a shooting range, with an instructor. They mistakenly placed their trust in the range and the instructor. If the management of the gun range knew this would be dangerous, they could have nixed the idea of a child shooting a high powered weapon. They didn't . Who would be more familiar with how weapons can be mishandled and things can go awry , the people who run a gun range or the average person ?

bbm
JG-
I see merit in your points above but what if we flip your questions?
Q: If parents knew this would be dangerous,
they could have nixed their dau shooting a high-powered weapon.
Q: Who would be more familiar w how this 9 y/o girl was frail or klutzy,
parents or range management/owner or instructor? Her parents?

How could any parents, any adult, in 21st C US not know handling an Uzi is dangerous?
Going to range, did parents think & discuss - "What should Dau shoot while we record for youtube -
Pop-tart-pastry gun, cap gun, clothespin gun shooting rubber-bands, ping-pong ball gun? Which should we choose." IDTS.
Going there, presumably they knew range offered her chance to shoot real firearms w real live ammo.
Guns on their website, http://bulletsandburgers.com/guns

Did parents' completion of waiver perhaps reflect dau had previous firearms experience? IDK if the Q is asked.
They knew what firearms exp, if any, dau had.

If a business w 200mph racecars at a track allows 8+y/o to drive w an instructor (no override controls),
what responsibilities should parents exercise before letting 9 y/o Dau behind the wheel?

I don't know what laws or regulations relate to this gun range or my hypothetical racecar track.
Is allowing 9y/o Dau to do either one criminal child abuse or neglect?

Do we need legislative intervention to micromanage
- all businesses' risk management decisions, in lieu of common sense? IDK
-all parenting decisions, in lieu of common sense? IDK.

Or should we let the judicial system, in civil lawsuits or criminal proceedings, along w the free market sort it out? IDK.

WRT comparative fault between these parents & this gun range, imo, seems like poor judgment on both sides.

 

[Tugela]

Why aren't better records kept? Shouldn't the office have had duplicate copies?? You keep your only copy of the waiver on the range to be blown away by the wind???
I hope one positive outcome of this tragedy is better regulation of shooting ranges, records, and who is allowed to shoot, and proper procedures.

More likely there were no waivers.

 

[Lovejac]

I am going to disagree with some of you who are placing most of the blame on the parents. They didn't take the little girl to a field and just hand her an Uzi, and she shot it and an innocent bystander got killed. She was at a shooting range, with an instructor. They mistakenly placed their trust in the range and the instructor. If the management of the gun range knew this would be dangerous, they could have nixed the idea of a child shooting a high powered weapon. They didn't . Who would be more familiar with how weapons can be mishandled and things can go awry , the people who run a gun range or the average person ?

Originally I was 50/50 equally placing the blame on the parents and the range/instructor. And then came the fact that her father had shot that exact gun right before he handed it to his daughter. He had felt the power and kick of that gun and then decided to let his daughter shoot it :facepalm:

So now I'm at about 90/10

 

[al66pine]

More likely there were no waivers.

Trying to look thru every page on B+B's website, I have not seen any ref to waiver required, but I may have missed it.
But could be waiver forms are presented to ppl for siggies only after they are at the range.
Maybe after many/most have paid and spent ~1 hr travelling from Las Vegas to B+B.

I did not go thru online reservation process; maybe waivers are incorporated there;
but that would only cover reservation-maker, not all shooters in the group.

http://bulletsandburgers.com/.

 

[al66pine]

Originally I was 50/50 equally placing the blame on the parents and the range/instructor. And then came the fact that her father had shot that exact gun right before he handed it to his daughter. He had felt the power and kick of that gun and then decided to let his daughter shoot it :facepalm:

So now I'm at about 90/10

I missed that too, until just now.
For me, the comparative fault scales are no longer balanced.
Thx for posting that.

 

[hoshizora]

I hope one positive outcome of this tragedy is better regulation of shooting ranges, records, and who is allowed to shoot, and proper procedures.

It won't, unfortunately. I'm in Australia where our gun laws are tight and I've watched time and time again tragedies unfold in the US created by guns and nothing ever changes. I thought after Sandy Hook that things might change, but it didn't. I would like to see things change but if Sandy Hook didn't change things, I don't think anything will at this point.

Of course coming from Australia, the US' views on gun control really shocks me and this story shocked me. I'm surprised someone this young is allowed to have access to guns. Like they don't have age restrictions on handling guns. I know some of you guys are saying it's an Uzi and it's different because it's a military gun, but all guns are dangerous and I wouldn't let any children near them because they are all weapons and designed to kill, whether they are a military weapon or not.

 

[LinasK]

It won't, unfortunately. I'm in Australia where our gun laws are tight and I've watched time and time again tragedies unfold in the US created by guns and nothing ever changes. I thought after Sandy Hook that things might change, but it didn't. I would like to see things change but if Sandy Hook didn't change things, I don't think anything will at this point.

Of course coming from Australia, the US' views on gun control really shocks me and this story shocked me. I'm surprised someone this young is allowed to have access to guns. Like they don't have age restrictions on handling guns. I know some of you guys are saying it's an Uzi and it's different because it's a military gun, but all guns are dangerous and I wouldn't let any children near them because they are all weapons and designed to kill, whether they are a military weapon or not.

BBM. I'm in the US, and I totally agree with you, I made my husband get rid of his guns when he moved in with me- I gave him an ultimatum- it's me or your guns, but you won't force me to live with a gun!!! He chose me.

 

[gitana1]

The children of the victim have written and read a very compassionate, loving letter to the little girl who accidentally killed the instructor. They must have super big hearts to be so kind:

https://gma.yahoo.com/children-uzi-...en-letter-110837823--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[MsFacetious]

It's really amazing.

 

[SCHMAE]

Thank you for sharing. I hope this will bring that little lady some peace. It's not your fault, honey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kline]

Ive fired an UZI I cant fathom some adult placing it in the hands of a child.
(also they get very HOT very fast.)
Its like handing a nine year old a running chainsaw and saying "Only one way to learn Honey!"
Its disturbing that for many today even suggesting common sense come into play when in the context of firearms summons visions of black helicopter landing on their lawns.
Sick and sad.

 

[jjenny]

The 9 year old could have easily killed herself. Like that little boy, son of a doctor did. Adults around her should have been responsible, not her.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Family of Arizona gun instructor who was shot dead by a nine-year-old girl with an Uzi at range file wrongful death lawsuit

Charles Vacca Jr. was fatally shot by a nine-year-old girl with an Uzi submachine gun in 2014

A lawsuit brought by his survivors alleges Bullets and Burgers Corp acted negligently during the August 2014 accidental shooting

The civil complaint claims the girl received 'limited instruction' on firing the Uzi and never should have been given the weapon


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ile-wrongful-death-lawsuit.html#ixzz4I8KVImYn

 

[Donjeta]

Family of Arizona gun instructor who was shot dead by a nine-year-old girl with an Uzi at range file wrongful death lawsuit

Charles Vacca Jr. was fatally shot by a nine-year-old girl with an Uzi submachine gun in 2014

A lawsuit brought by his survivors alleges Bullets and Burgers Corp acted negligently during the August 2014 accidental shooting

The civil complaint claims the girl received 'limited instruction' on firing the Uzi and never should have been given the weapon


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ile-wrongful-death-lawsuit.html#ixzz4I8KVImYn

I agree that she shouldn't have had it but wasn't it the deceased who gave her the weapon and the instruction?

 

[missy_g]

They should have had an age restriction. Also even though the instructor did "instruct" her, he was probably going by their standards.


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[Hatfield]

I agree that she shouldn't have had it but wasn't it the deceased who gave her the weapon and the instruction?

I was thinking along the same line. It seems he would share some in the fault which could be how a jury ends up deciding the lawsuit.
Cases like this sometimes dole out percentages of fault and a jury will have to decide what percentage of fault lies with the store owner and what if any percentage lies with the instructor himself. His family may claim that the store did not give him enough training to be a trainer or something like that.

Watching the video is disturbing as she was obviously too young to be able to handle the weapon.

People need to realize that firing a weapon is basically holding onto a device that has a mini-explosion every time a shell goes off. You have to have enough strength and knowledge to be prepared to counter that explosion. And with a fully automatic there are a whole host of other issues that come up. One shell causes a reaction for the next and the barrel will begin to rise and keep rising until you either force it down with brute strength of get your finger off of that trigger. The girl obviously locked down on the trigger and didnt come off the trigger until it was too late as the gun rose upwards.

Ive been at a gun range before when someone was teaching another person to shoot a .45 caliber handgun. I quickly left the range after watching what was going on. The trainee obviously did not have the strength to keep the barrel under control as the shell would go off and the person almost dropped it when it fired.
Some people panic or start waving the barrel all over the place without thinking about what they are doing.
Time to leave the range when stuff like that is going on.
Too many people let their friends or relatives teach them how to use a weapon and if that person wasn't properly trained to begin with then bad habits develop quickly with gun safety.

 

[angelainwi]

You can't drive a car until you are 16 but you can put a weapon in the hands of a child?

 

[KaaBoom]

You can't drive a car until you are 16 but you can put a weapon in the hands of a child?

America, where shooting a gun is a right, but transportation is a “privilege”. Just like people on the terrorist watch list, who can own and shoot a gun, but they can’t get on an airplane. We have very strange priorities in this country. IMHO.

 

[Trvl4Lyfe]

A lawsuit after they've written the 9 year-old a letter but now going to make her relive it again...