911 Call

[InstantProof]

An interesting theory you have there that might go along with this little conversation. Ok, let's assume PR did write the RN as most people think. In that case she knows JB is dead and in the house. JB's body may be very well hidden so LE may not be able to find it, but it is still in the house. Logically, it is a risk for PR to call LE over to the house at that point since they may discover the dead body and from handwriting analysis they may discover the RN is in her writing, directly implicating her in the murder.

But let's say that JR wants to dump the body and PR absolutely refuses to go along with that and so she overrides JR and calls police anyway because she wants LE to find the body. It would be illogical for her to do that but I could see it, since PR is more emotional than logical. In that case JR would be very angry at PR because she was interfering with his plan of making a convincing RN/kidnapping and now he is he is going to have to deal with the dead body being in the house while LE is there. Yes, I can see this scenario.

Calling police maybe not so much because she wants them to find the body but to prevent John from removing it?

 

[Anyhoo]

BBM. Or because she killed their daughter? I am not saying that is the fact, only that it is another possibilty.

I have always thought both of their actions regarding each other pointed to that possibility. JR, although resigned to protecting her and their image, still angry as heck that she had caused JB's death. PR calling half of boulder to come over and act as a buffer, as well as give her the sympathy she no doubt felt she deserved but was not going to get from John.

Again, I am not saying this is my absolute theory, I don't have one. I just think it is a possible additional explanation.

Thank you for this and yes I agree that would be a fantastic reason why JR would be very angry at PR. In fact, this is the most believable reason of all. This just jumps out at me as being true.

EDIT TO ADD: I don't know how to explain it but this explanation strongly fits for me, like a big piece of the puzzle just fell into place. If true, this means that JR had just recently found out JB was dead and was still reacting to it. I want to explore this more. I know that I have been all of the board with my theories, but sometimes when you hear the truth, you know it. This is what I felt when I read your post.

 

[gramcracker]

I'll ask you the same question I asked UKGuy which he didn't answer. Are you saying the parents would discover her dead body and not even confront BR about what he did before they stage her body in the basement? If you are, I have trouble seeing that. Why would they not at least ask BR what happened before they did the staging? You have to explain that to me before I would ever believe that.

I think it would fit if they knew BR had behavioral/psychological issues and they had ignored/denied indicators that he could/would harm his sister. especially if the indicators were of long duration, and progressive

 

[DeDee]

I agree, but according to the IDI crowd, which includes John Douglas (if one believes that he is honestly IDI which I am not convinced of) they found their daughter missing and a RN on the stairs and never even woke Burke up to ask him if he heard anything.

John Douglas testified that it was his determination that the IDI crime was committed by a "young male".


Lou Smit filed a lawsuit insisting he be allowed to present IDI evidence to the GJ. Beckner relented.


Yet, the Grand Jury still voted to have PR & JR indicted.

 

[DeDee]

My theory is that Patsy wrote the note and was helping out with the staging but at some point she refused to go along with something (most likely the dumping of the body) and she got on the phone with 911 not caring if nothing made sense, she wanted JB recovered.

Patsy knew what she wanted to say in the 911 call. Read the transcript without reading 911 questions and responses.



Patsy: “Police.”

911: “What’s going on ma’am?”

Patsy: “755 15th street.”

911: “What’s going on there ma’am”

Patsy: “We have a kidnapping. Hurry, please!”

911: “Explain to me what’s going on. Ok?”

Patsy: “There. We have a, there’s a note left and our daughter’s gone.”

911: “A note was left and your daughter’s gone?”

Patsy: “Yes!”

911: “How old is your daughter?”

Patsy: “She’s 6 years old. She’s blonde, 6 years old.”

911: “How long ago was this?”

Patsy: “I don’t know I just got the note, and my daughter’s gone.”

911: “Does it say who took her?”

Patsy: “What?”

911: “Does it say who took her?”

Patsy: “No! I don’t know. There’s a, there’s a ransom note here.”

911: “It’s a ransom note?”

Patsy: “It say’s SBTC. Victory! Please!”

911: “Okay, what’s your name? Are you Kath...?”

Patsy: “Patsy Ramsey, I’m the mother. Oh my God! Please!”

911: “Okay, I’m sending an officer over OK?

Patsy: “Please!”

911: “Do you know how long she’s been gone?”

Patsy: “No I don’t! Please we just got up and she’s not here. Oh my god! Please!”

Patsy: “Please!”

911: “Okay, Cal....”

Patsy: “Please send somebody.”

911: “I am honey.”

Patsy: “Please.”

911: “Take a deep breath and...”

Patsy: “Hurry, hurry, hurry!”

911: “Patsy? Patsy? Patsy? Patsy?”



Who hangs up on the 911 Operator after soliciting police assistance?


Martin MacNeill does. And Patsy Ramsey does.


Patsy scripted the 911 call. It was not a fluke. The 911 call was not made in protest to John kidnapping and killing her daughter. Six times she said the word "please" but not once did she warn that her daughter would die for contacting a stray dog.


I suggest she hung up on the 911 operator because she did not want John and/or Burke to say anything that should not be recorded.

 

[DeeDee249]

I agree. At that point, BR was in the room and talking. And as we know, the earlier enhanced versions (originally heard on the Geraldo Rivera show and then never heard again- it seems to have "disappeared") had BR's voice speaking.
It is very possible that they had already decided that they would say that BR was asleep the whole time.
Yes, it is inconceivable that parents of a kidnapped child would not want to wake up a remaining child to ask if they saw/heard anything. Especially when that child's bedroom was just down the hall from his sister's.
And I maintain, as I always have. that they also got BR out of the house as soon as they could specifically to prevent him from doing/saying anything to the police they knew would be arriving soon and to prevent him from being observed and/or questioned by investigators they also knew would be coming. And I still maintain that the parents were much more worried about this than they were about him saying anything to whoever might be at the White's. Keeping him from seeing his sister's stiff, discolored body was also a concern.

 

[Anyhoo]

Calling police maybe not so much because she wants them to find the body but to prevent John from removing it?

Good call as a theory.

 

[Anyhoo]

I think it would fit if they knew BR had behavioral/psychological issues and they had ignored/denied indicators that he could/would harm his sister. especially if the indicators were of long duration, and progressive

Sorry I don't buy it at all. Oh, look, he finally killed her this time. Let's not wake the poor boy and just clean up after him. No Way!

 

[Venom]

I'll ask you the same question I asked UKGuy which he didn't answer. Are you saying the parents would discover her dead body and not even confront BR about what he did before they stage her body in the basement? If you are, I have trouble seeing that. Why would they not at least ask BR what happened before they did the staging? You have to explain that to me before I would ever believe that.

I don't know. As I said, I was just thinking and brain storming.

 

[gramcracker]

Sorry I don't buy it at all. Oh, look, he finally killed her this time. Let's not wake the poor boy and just clean up after him. No Way!

why? it was either that or: this is bigger than us. let's call the police and tell them what he's done and let them handle it/him, because they know best

(?)

 

[Anyhoo]

why? it was either that or: this is bigger than us. let's call the police and tell them what he's done and let them handle it/him, because they know best

(?)

Because it doesn't make sense. Why would you think that?

 

[gramcracker]

OK, I'm sorry. you're right. just tell me what to think, and I'll think it!

 

[Anyhoo]

OK, I'm sorry. you're right. just tell me what to think, and I'll think it!

I'm not telling you what to think. I'm applying logic and common sense to what you are saying. Where did you get this crazy notion? From Kolar's book? Don't jump through too many hoops on the road to BDI.

 

[Venom]

But not a lot of what we know makes sense or is logical about this crime.

 

[Anyhoo]

But not a lot of what we know makes sense or is logical about this crime.

You are correct about that, but I strongly question this sequence of events:

1. BR kills JB and then goes to sleep.
2. One or both parents find JB's dead body and realize BR has killed her. They know this from past events that they have allowed.
3. Without waking BR and confronting him, they quietly take JB's body down to the basement, stage her there, PR writes the RN, etc.
4. BR wakes up in the morning all innocent acting and we have the little conversation at the end of the 911 call.

I reject this as plausible.

 

[DeDee]

Something else along the line of the above posts from another thread that I think is worth mentioning... I’ve noticed in the accepted transcription of the 911 call, Patsy is shown to say, “We have a kidnapping.” Listen to that portion here, and see if that is correct, or if you think what she actually says is, “We had a kidnapping.” (emphasis mine)

I don’t think it would be over-analyzing what was said to suggest that by using the past tense (“had” instead of “have&#8221, Patsy knows it’s not still in progress -- it’s over, it’s done, whatever happened to JonBenet is finished. There is no kidnapping that is in progress.

When Susan Smith reported her kids “missing”, the sheriff who interviewed her (Howard Wells) over several days noticed that when she spoke of her kids, it was always in the past-tense (e.g., “They were good kids,” not “They are good kids.&#8221. He had learned at a training seminar at CASKU that people who did this know subconsciously their loved one is already dead. It was because of this that he felt she knew they weren’t just missing, but were indeed already dead. With that tip-off, he told her a little white lie, offered to pray with her, and got her to confess.

Is it really that farfetched to suggest that Patsy gave herself away by saying, “We had a kidnapping”?



(As a side-note, Sheriff Howard Wells in 2010 pled guilty himself to making false statements to federal agents from the FBI about his involvement in hiding his receipt of taxable interest income and the existence of documents acknowledging the same.):

http://www.fbi.gov/columbia/press-releases/2010/co092110a.htm

No, it is not that far fetched of an idea to conclude PR told on herself. Who knew one day we would use Susan Smith and Patsy Ramsey is the same sentence?

Basically, this is how I figure the JBR 911 call went down.


PR calls police.

PR gives 755 15th Street address when asked "what's going on ma'am?"

So the 911 Operator repeats: "what's going on there, ma'am?"

PR declares: We have a kidnapping. Please #1
*To your point otg, it is possible that Patsy used her good ole Southern twang and actually stated: "We've a kidnapping." Read as "Weave uh kidnapping."

911 Op: Explain okay?

PR: almost repeats the "we have a kidnapping" but stops herself, to instead say: There. We have a ---. There's a note and my daughter's gone.

911 Op: Repeats similar words back to her: A note was left and your daughter’s gone?

PR: is so thankful to say Yes! As in, yes, you finally understand.

911 Op: then asks for her daughter's age.

PR: is breathless when she says: She’s 6 years old. She’s blonde, 6 years old.
* Only now I believe that Patsy did not say the word blonde. Instead she again used the word "gone". She’s 6 years old. She’s gone. 6 years old.

911 Op: How long ago was this?

PR: I don’t know I just got the note, and my daughter’s gone.
* Patsy says she just got the note? Got it from whom? The Small Foreign Faction? This is where Patsy does not say she "just woke up and saw the note".

911 Op: Does it say who took her?
* Now this question stumps Patsy for just a moment.

PR: may be a bit irritated that there are all of these questions to answer so she asks a question with a question. Still recovering she manages "What?"

911 Op: repeats her question: Does it say who took her?

PR: No! I don’t know. There’s a, there’s a ransom note here.

911 Op: Repeats PR's claim: It’s a ransom note?

PR: but tells her instead that it says: S.B.T.C. Victory!

PR: Please #8.

After a little more chatter, the caller hung up after becoming increasingly annoyed. Her husband and son were probably looking at her with imploring eyes as she hung up the phone with the 911 Op who was still calling her name. After being fumbled, the receiver rested on the base.



911 call transcript for JonBenet can be found [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10225520&postcount=265"]here[/ame].

 

[Nom de plume]

I can see the point each of you is trying to make. Personally, I cannot believe any innocent parent would not wake the other child to ask questions.
1. IDI - You daughter is kidnapped but you don't ask you son what he heard/saw? Ridiculous.

2. BDI - Your mentally disturbed son just killed your daughter. "Oh poor baby. He must be tired after all this. Just let him sleep." Uh NO! NOT gonna happen. More like "What have you done?!?!"

3. JDI and/or PDI - "Don't be too loud, we don't want BR to wake up and start asking too many questions."

Their lack of questioning him prior to the 911 call (according to their story) reminds me of the LI case. Two other children in the house, but the parents don't ask them what they might have seen or heard. No....total BS.

 

[Anyhoo]

I can see the point each of you is trying to make. Personally, I cannot believe any innocent parent would not wake the other child to ask questions.
1. IDI - You daughter is kidnapped but you don't ask you son what he heard/saw? Ridiculous.

2. BDI - Your mentally disturbed son just killed your daughter. "Oh poor baby. He must be tired after all this. Just let him sleep." Uh NO! NOT gonna happen. More like "What have you done?!?!"

3. JDI and/or PDI - "Don't be too loud, we don't want BR to wake up and start asking too many questions."

Their lack of questioning him prior to the 911 call (according to their story) reminds me of the LI case. Two other children in the house, but the parents don't ask them what they might have seen or heard. No....total BS.

IMO, of these three, 1 and 2 are totally unbelievable, and 3 makes sense.

 

[chlban]

But not a lot of what we know makes sense or is logical about this crime.

Exactly. There is just so much to consider and I am sure that at least some of the things we are considering aren't even relevent.

There are things I am certain of, such as the fact that there is no question that someone in that family somehow caused the death of JonBenet.
However, so many other things may or may not be relevent and more importantly how they are relevent, I don't think we will ever know.

Ransom Note-Definitely relevent. How exactly? (other than the obvious, Patsy wrote it). Was it because they were planning to dispose of the body but got cold feet? She was, after all, their daughter and it is hard to imagine just dumping your childs body in the woods somewhere, particularly if you didn't kill her. Or didn't mean to kill her, which I believe.

Ramsey's Behavior to each other. This is huge to me. I have seen divorced parents (Kyron Hormans biological parents, David and Susan Smith when the poor man was still clueless) come together in the early hours of a "kidnapping" and yet this couple, who would remain married until her death, barely spared a glance at each other, much less offered a bit of comfort. In fact barely spoke to each other. Wouldn't you be, if nothing else, questioning each other ? "Did you hear anything?" Have you noticed anyone hanging around?" "What clothes are missing, oh my god, do you think she is warm enough? Totally off.

Why write the warnings in the RN about talking to a stray dog, but then never
once mention them and proceed to contact everyone they knew to come over?

Even wierder, is the IDI theory on the RN because, based on that they were aware that their actions could result in their daughter being beheaded and apparently did not care. Not even enough to bring it to the attention of LE?

Why did they decide letting Burke go with the White's was the best course of action?

Why refuse to cooperate with LE?

Why lie about he pineapple? Or did they lie? Did they really not know she had eaten it which would indicate BDI, but then, why not just add that to the staging and clean it up? Did they just forget that while busy with the rest of the staging?

Why did John tell the truth about the window? If he was part of the staging, and they were trying to convince LE of an intruder, why not just feign surprise and ignorance about it? Or is that because he was not part of the staging?

But if he wasn't part of the staging, how did he know exactly where to go to find the body? Dumb luck? Or had he found it earler when he disappeared around 10:00 A.M.

Why the size 12's? If staging took place, why wouldn't she have just gotten a pair that fit out of JB's room? She had plenty of time.

Why was Patsy's make up perfect? The same clothes have never really bothered me, but the make up does. Even if she was the killer I find it hard to believe that she never once cried. Or even if she is that cold, if it was the same make up from Christmas day, it would be a bit ragged by the next morning, partcularly after spending the night staging. Which no one would have questioned because one would expect that a hysterical mothers make up would be a mess. So did she actually stop to fix and or re-apply full make up in the midst of such a crisis?


So many questions. As I said, some of these may not be relevent, some certainly are, but how the heck do they all fit?

It's little wonder we cannot agree on a theory. Other than RDI of course.

 

[chlban]

IMO, of these three, 1 and 2 are totally unbelievable, and 3 makes sense.

Agree under that scenario. However #2 could be, your child killed your other child and it was discovered when it happened, after the scream. Child has probably been questioned, yelled at, whatever. Then finally sent to bed.

Next morning child wakes up and hears his parents on the 911 call and hears his mother discussing a RN. He knows full well he certainly did not write a RN, so he says "what did you find?".

Referring to the note, but JB's body.