A Dream

[BrotherMoon]

Does anyone else have dreams about Jon Benet?

I had one for the first time last night. It is probably because I have been reading Steves book.
In my dream Jon Benet was in bed and she had blond hair but it was only chin length. I walked in the bed room and started walking towards her and she looked scared. A little white dog was in the room with her at it had a bandage over it's ear. She said "Oh no! stay away, stay away. I am being a good girl now." I said "I'm not going to hurt you." then she said "I was such a bad girl and mommy got so mad, she just couldn't help it." The whole time she seemed afraid.
That was all. When I woke up I was really upset.

Anyone else ever have dreams like this?

When we are infants and small children we are full of unchecked, instinctual behavior. It is up to the parents and adults of society to tell us what is acceptable and what is not. We integrate the acceptable behaviors and the unacceptable behaviors fall into the unconscious and becomes our shadow. This can be a haphazard process with some good qualities falling by the wayside. Our instincts (little white dog) can be wounded in the process. Your inner child was harmed somehow by unconscious parenting. It happens to us all.

 

[BrotherMoon]

Now, I'm thinking it would have been better if you'd plunged into the lake (by the way not 'sea' in Charlevoix). Right Brother Moon? You would have emerged enlightened!

No, that is incorrect. The content of the dream comes from the unconscious. There never was a choice for the ego to make in terms of plunging or going into the mall. Also, the sea image is from the unconscious. The imagery is about the unconscious, not the actual place.

The dreamer was invited into a structure, "in" and "up". That imagery is as different from water as ideas are from instincts.

 

[gaia]

This the problem with armchair dream-interpreters/psychologists. None of us are qualified to interpret your dream. We are so off the cuff we're not even liable for incorrectly informing you. Brother Moon has lots of knowledge about this stuff, but he doen't know you...he doesn't know your background or anything. He is strictly (correct me if I'm wrong BroMoon) going "by the book" so to speak. That's dangerous. Thing is, if you are truly interested in understanding your own dreams, get some help with psychologist-directed info, books to explain symbols, etc. This stuff is simple, but tricky. Simple because it's age-old. Tricky because we have been raised since birth to deny there is anything going on in our minds besides the literal learning of contemporary knowledge. We're all lauded if we learn chemistry, but anything more primitive and age-old is dismissed as weird, voodoo, silly psychobabble, etc. That's really sad because The Bible is replete with great symbols and any scripture you read has several layers to it. If that's true of the Bible, think about everything else.

Anyhow, it's not that I don't want to talk about this. It's that we're loose-canons. I'd love to start a thread in the Jury Room about this and we can all speculate to our heart's content.

I just know "a little knowledge CAN be a dangerous thing". To me, a little knowledge whets my appetite and I pursue more - mostly because the more I know, the less I know. It's an endless chase, but the road yields fertile things.

I'm through. :blushing:

 

[Jayelles]

I don't remember precisely when I had my dream but I'd guess around 2001/2002. Not really any major changes in my life though - plenty of work pressure around that time.

I'm not religious - somewhere between atheist and agnostic.

Don't know any Charleses but I adore Charles rennie mackintosh designs.

Love haberdashery shops - my favourite.

We went to Florida some time around then and I fell in love with the malls.

I have happy memories of my Aunt and dancing teachers' flats.

What is unusual is that I remembered the dream when I wakened up. I rarely recall dreams.

 

[Eagle1]

I'd take those symbols ..... the elevator tells you perhaps that your inner little child isn't really lost - just become imbedded a little deeper in your subconscious - so don't forget her - she's there and needs to still be a part of you (even if you are now an adult mother), and now you can feel relieved and satisfied with your new little child as well as your own.

The elevator tells me that? Wow, that's nice to know. We're a lot alike, btw, even to the pottery thing, Gaia. One time I made a vase 14" tall, but the person loading the kiln broke it so I can't ever prove that. I like psychology too, and so does this daughter. She was majoring in it but switched to decorating. Back to the dream, maybe it was simply that my daughter didn't come with an instruction book and I may have been thinking I'd bitten off more than I could chew, think I said that already. Could it have been partly prophetic too? When she was 11 mo. old she had to stay a few days in a hospital. I wish I would have a dream about the JonBenet case. Thanks for the replies.

 

[gaia]

I anguished after telling you what I thought the elevator meant in your dream. If the elevator goes up, you are in the super-consciousness - spiritual realm. If it goes down, you are going into the subscious - the deep, dark, wise feminine subterranean world. Anyhoo, you can see why I hate to talk too much about dream interpretation.

Wow, you are a potter too? Cool. I moved last summer and haven't quite got my studio completely assembled again. We need to get some electric and plumbing work done. I can throw on my wheel and hand-build as well, but it's a to wash up without my sink. What kind of pottery do you do? I dabble in several types - raku, oxydation-firing, and reduction method. I became serious about throwing in porcelain - it's like cream cheese, but use raku clay and heavily-grogged clay as well. It's such a wonderful thing to do!! More power to you...and anyone else out there. :dance:

 

[Eagle1]

Since I posted about the 42 yrs ago one, anxiety about my baby daughter who afterwards had to go to the hospital at 11 mo., I must have had that on the brain, and last night I dreamed I had two babies, 11 mo. apart, and had to get a twin stroller. At age 68. Funny! I don't think either dream had any deep meaning, just my mind trying to digest what I'd been thinking about. I think the elevator was a hospital one, where I'd first brought her home, and at some point it may have been a shopping trip or whatever.

About "throwing" pots, one of us better explain in case others are reading that's making one on a pottery wheel is called "throwing" it. You're doing it professionally. I just had three college semesters as part of a Fine Arts degree with lots of other art courses. Sure was relaxing and fun though. I spent way too much time at it. (Professionally, I'm a Union musician, have worked for symphony orchestras, doing some arranging with a computer notation program, and have promised I'll go back into church organ subbing if there's enough light that I can still read the music and all. It takes more and more light, any more. One woman sub passed away, I just learned, and another took a full time job at another church. She's younger.)

 

[twilight]

BrotherMoon, Jayelle stood on the shore at the edge of the water. I'm talking about plunging into the water and travelling down through the psyche and then achieving enlightenment. The mall - apartment is a whole other ball game.

Jayelle interjected herself into her narrative in the bracketed remarks (I have no idea what Charlevoix actually looks like BTW) - so I was responding to this by saying it is not a sea shore, but rather a lake.

But I'm surprised you wouldn't agree that a large body of water is symbolic of inner contemplation - internal evaluation blah, blah, blah...

As for messing around with dream interpretation, I think Jayelle can probably handle it. She seems like a pretty solid sort and has been around this forum forever backspacing flamers and all that. And I for one do not think anyone will be going to jail real soon based on her dream. They're probably more likely to head off to the mall, or their local haberdashery shop. Now there is an interesting word in relationship to this case. Maybe looking for something for a concealed wound, or some such thing - remember the use of opposites 'bumped' and 'flat'.

Jayelle:- what does the phrase 'First Communion' mean to you then, if you're not religious? You may not currently be, but somewhere I'm guessing you learned this phrase.

We don't get that much rain here, so I don't know who Charles rennie mackintosh is? Brand name, I'm guessing? Or what?

Anyway, the focus of your dream as you tell it is a house or apartment with many features like stairs, windows, railings, hallway, door, bedroom, etc. You mention these associated things 20 times in your narrative. They stand out because of this. They are in a sense the main topic of your dream as you now recite it.

You also mention 'malls' and items of clothing a lot. I think you probably are quite correct in your assessment of this - being the trip to the States. Of course, here again you are travelling over water.

My understanding of houses is that travelling up is a good thing. Opening doors is a good thing. Windows that let in light are a good thing. Overall, not a very sombre dream. As a matter of fact, there is not a single sombre word in the entire dream. Now, that's odd. This, in effect, is a pleasant dream with not a single word that jars.

 

[BrotherMoon]

But I'm surprised you wouldn't agree that a large body of water is symbolic of inner contemplation - internal evaluation blah, blah, blah...

It isn't. Clear and shallow water is symbolic of the personal unconscious. Deep and salt water is symbolic of the collective unconscious.

 

[BrotherMoon]

If the elevator goes up, you are in the super-consciousness - spiritual realm.

There is no such thing as the super-consciousness. There is only consciousness and the unconscious. The archetypal psyche gets projected out, unconsciously, as the spirit realm, the realm of the Gods. Consciousness and the unconscious are very different in nature. The unconscious has male aspects as well as female.

 

[IrishMist]

It isn't. Clear and shallow water is symbolic of the personal unconscious. Deep and salt water is symbolic of the collective unconscious.

I thought water meant emotion?

 

[twilight]

Okay, BrotherMoon, define your science. How many feet/meters of water constitute deep and/or shallow? At what precise point does one become the other? And is this a perception or a measured fact and does someone who doesn't know what they are looking at, know what depth the unknown whatever is? Remember, replicable measurements are de rigueur to equate a science.

Jayelle - I hope you're paying attention and will supply the answer to how deep was deep, or conversely how shallow was shallow? This could be important. {{I'm not sure how?}} Salt is definately a factor - I think - but don't quote me - I think the Great Lakes are salt water. But I've only ever been a few miles east of Kenora - except for the time I flew to Montreal, so I could be wrong about this. In the back of my mind a little voice is saying - no lakes are always fresh water. And I believe they are, but I also vaguely remember a story about someone talking about the bouyancy of the Great Lakes - created by the salt. Guess I better Google it.

 

[BrotherMoon]

I thought water meant emotion?

Water in general is the unconscious. The unconscious is energy, psychic libido. One of the effects of libido movement is emotions. The interpretation of water as emotion is a subjective judgement. If one has gained a measure of objectivity, one can separate cause and effect. That is why depth psychologists call the unconscious the objective psyche. Water images can have a personal content and a non or trans personal content. Clear and shallow water is the personal content. The deeper and the murkier the water the more likely the content reflects the transpersonal. Just where the two differentiate is not clear and any conclusions in this regard should be left open for modification.

Dream interpretation of a certain image can bring up several subjects or storylines, some even opposite in nature. They should be used for consideration not stone etching.

Jung coined the phrase emperical science. He recognized the value of the scientific method and also the characteristics of the creature that was doing the observing part of the method: a human. He recognized that we project unconsciously onto what we observe. And he recognized the projection can have an archetypal source in the deep unconscious.

Scientific materialism is a major failure in this regard.

 

[Jayelles]

Okay, BrotherMoon, define your science. How many feet/meters of water constitute deep and/or shallow? At what precise point does one become the other? And is this a perception or a measured fact and does someone who doesn't know what they are looking at, know what depth the unknown whatever is? Remember, replicable measurements are de rigueur to equate a science.

Jayelle - I hope you're paying attention and will supply the answer to how deep was deep, or conversely how shallow was shallow? This could be important. {{I'm not sure how?}} Salt is definately a factor - I think - but don't quote me - I think the Great Lakes are salt water. But I've only ever been a few miles east of Kenora - except for the time I flew to Montreal, so I could be wrong about this. In the back of my mind a little voice is saying - no lakes are always fresh water. And I believe they are, but I also vaguely remember a story about someone talking about the bouyancy of the Great Lakes - created by the salt. Guess I better Google it.

Sorry Twi. I missed the question about deep. I'm working long hours just now - be gentle with me

Are you referring to the water? Or my sleep? I'll answer both. The water in the dream was like a promenade - wide path with a low wall over the wall is a beach and then water. That is my experience of sea-side holiday resorts so that was how lakeside Charlevoix was represented in my dream. The water would have been shallow at the shore and getting deeper as it went out.

My sleep - is very deep. I shut my eyes and literally I am dead to the world within minutes. I take no drugs or medication of any kind - unless you count coffee. I can sleep through thunderstorms and I suffer from neck and shoulder stiffness because I often sleep in the same position all night. I don't need a lot of sleep (I can function adequately on 4/5 hours although I prefer 7/8) and I do hear my alarm in the morning. I don't sleep during the day and I don't doze off in the evenings.

First Communion means little girls in white bridal-type dresses to me. They used to make a procession in the town where I lived.

I think not all of the lakes are fresh water. I'm sure my brother told me that. In Scotland we call them lochs but some are sea-lochs and they are salt water.

Twi - you will LOVE Charles Rennie MacKintosh. He was an art nouveau designer and his stuff is HOT. Info:-

http://www.crmsociety.com/

 

[twilight]

Brother Moon said: It isn't. Clear and shallow water is symbolic of the personal unconscious. Deep and salt water is symbolic of the collective unconscious.

Jayelle, the point I was attempting (not well) to make was that only you could determine what the water was like...and because your perceptions were off a bit - not really about Charlevoix because you are not familiar with Charlevoix - what would be the relevance of an interpretation of your dream.

My original point was that water was symbolic of internal contemplation. And I think that is about all that observers like myself and BrotherMoon can say. You however can say deep or shallow, clear or salt, etc. etc.

And BrotherMoon, I'm wondering if you're aware that some would say there is no unconscious? And almost as emphatically as you told Gaia, there is no super-consciousness.

And that pretty much summarizes what we need to remember about Jung. It's all just a bunch of opinions.

One last thing - Jayelle, you chose certain words to tell your dream. Had it been a current dream it would be really relevant. But none-the-less they were your choices. Therefore, an examination of your words will tell the observer what you chose to make important in your dream.

Important enough to tell us about were: residences, people, clothing and shopping. The residence included apartment and houses. The people included JB and PR, aunt, mother and teacher and then that designer - Charles Rennie MacIntosh. You were conflicted about a lot of things: dark/light, flight/standing, yes/no, walking/standing, bumped/flat. You mentioned religious items, directions, and of course, that phone ringing. Because you chose your words, they must have had some relevance to you.

So, my advise - think about the choices you made and therein will lie the answer.

 

[BrotherMoon]

And that pretty much summarizes what we need to remember about Jung. It's all just a bunch of opinions.

No, it isn't. It's a matter of experience.

 

[pennygram]

I haven't had a JonBenet dream yet, but I do want to say dreams have more than one level/interpretation. BroMoon is on track with his post, but there is also the literal level to consider. Dreams are your inner self telling you things in story form to get you to pay attention, see what's being said and shown, and use the wise material to continue to grow and reach wholeness. Your inner self wants you to be complete. Have you ever had a dream, then the next night you had another one that was more colorful and insistent, then another one after a few days that became a bit scary, then another that was real scary? No, they aren't usually about the same things, but the group of dreams are trying to get you to know something. If you're dopey and don't try to understand, the inner self gets a little rough with you - thus the scary dream. I can't tell you how many times I've been lazy and didn't think about my dream only to be hit over the head with the next one. Then I'm in that "OK, I get it" mode.

Sorry, I know this isn't a psych thread in particular, but just thought I'd spew stuff. :blushing:

That was a very astute analysis. I would like to talk to you more about that. I am brand new at this, just joined, am very into the jbr case and still trying to figure out whatall the threads, recent postings etc are.:clap: