A month later... where is Lisa? What is your opinion?

[Chewy]

What mother of an 11 month old baby puts the baby down at 6 pm and then goes to bed without checking on her before doing so?

DB has two other children and seems to be a pretty good mom even if she did get drunk. So what, the kids are little they're home and and she's relaxing. She went a little too far.

But I don't care how drunk you are if you are not a raging alcoholic, even drunk you'd peek in to the baby before you went to bed.

As far as the video of the hubby, I noticed he won't look her in the eye. If you watch the clip posted earlier, this one

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Lmy0Q5U_k&feature=player_embedded"]Baby Lisa's Parents Take Questions From Reporters - YouTube[/ame]

He will not look her in the eye. Either he came home and she was drunk so he did something to the baby or she found something wrong with the baby, not just hurt but cold and dead to the point of no return.

The other thing is the house is staged to cause the husband to have a reason to rush to DB. Door open, lights on, phones missing, looks to me like a set up.


I'd ask all moms out there to consider, no matter how trashed you've ever gotten, would you put down a baby for hours and not check on the baby before going down to sleep yourself?

That to me says a LOT.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Here's the thing about that theory though. If DB had accidently or on purpose caused the death of Lisa, where feasibly would she have hidden her body? She, by her own admission, was drinking that night, which, even though we havent seen a statement from LE confirming this, I do believe. In this drunken state she would have had to have found some place to conceal Lisa, which couldnt be that far away I don't think given the time frame. DB also had no drivers license. Which doesnt mean she couldnt drive obviously, but still I just don't see it. A drunk, upset, freaked out DB, unlicensed, driving somewhere with her baby daughters dead body and concealing in a place so good that no one has found her yet. Including trained searchers.

She may not have been as drunk as she stated she was. She might be using the drunk card to conveniently "forget" a lot of things. And, the river is very close by.

 

[norest4thewicked]

what mother of an 11 month old baby puts the baby down at 6 pm and then goes to bed without checking on her before doing so?

Db has two other children and seems to be a pretty good mom even if she did get drunk. So what, the kids are little they're home and and she's relaxing. She went a little too far.

But i don't care how drunk you are if you are not a raging alcoholic, even drunk you'd peek in to the baby before you went to bed.

As far as the video of the hubby, i noticed he won't look her in the eye. If you watch the clip posted earlier, this one

baby lisa's parents take questions from reporters - youtube

he will not look her in the eye. Either he came home and she was drunk so he did something to the baby or she found something wrong with the baby, not just hurt but cold and dead to the point of no return.

The other thing is the house is staged to cause the husband to have a reason to rush to db. Door open, lights on, phones missing, looks to me like a set up.


I'd ask all moms out there to consider, no matter how trashed you've ever gotten, would you put down a baby for hours and not check on the baby before going down to sleep yourself?

That to me says a lot.

never!

 

[norest4thewicked]

What mother of an 11 month old baby puts the baby down at 6 pm and then goes to bed without checking on her before doing so?

DB has two other children and seems to be a pretty good mom even if she did get drunk. So what, the kids are little they're home and and she's relaxing. She went a little too far.

But I don't care how drunk you are if you are not a raging alcoholic, even drunk you'd peek in to the baby before you went to bed.

As far as the video of the hubby, I noticed he won't look her in the eye. If you watch the clip posted earlier, this one

Baby Lisa's Parents Take Questions From Reporters - YouTube

He will not look her in the eye. Either he came home and she was drunk so he did something to the baby or she found something wrong with the baby, not just hurt but cold and dead to the point of no return.

The other thing is the house is staged to cause the husband to have a reason to rush to DB. Door open, lights on, phones missing, looks to me like a set up.


I'd ask all moms out there to consider, no matter how trashed you've ever gotten, would you put down a baby for hours and not check on the baby before going down to sleep yourself?

That to me says a LOT.

JI doesn't seem to look anyone in the eye.

 

[4Jacy]

I believe, very sadly, that this beautiful child is dead. I believe she is dead due to her mother's recklessness or temper, alcohol or drugs.

I am going to put this is delicately as possible because I don't want to get a time-out. I do not like this woman, not at all. My reasons, that constantly resound in my mind and heart are HER words:

Her "adult time" with an attitude due to entitlement.

Let me tell you: If I did have the "adult time", and this had happened to my baby, I would be screaming, OMG< OGM, if only I had been more responsible, why did I do that, my baby would have be alive if I hadn't been drunk. OMG, THIS IS ALL MY FAULT. I wouldn't be off-cuffing it with an attitude with friggin' "adult time"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Her words to the "abductor"...please, the boys miss her so much (perhaps not her exact quote, but similar) Instead, why not plead "she is our heart, please leave her at a church, a hospital, firehouse, anywhere she will be found quickly. We love her, please, please bring her back to us.

And somehow, I know I wouldn't be bringing fried chicken or burgers home to eat, because I couldn't. I would be vomiting every day!!!

The only thing I will give DB a pass on is when she said they were grieving. I understand that most people think that it means that the child is deceased, and I think it was a poor choice of words, however, if it were me, I would be greiving every moment my child was missing. I would have chosen other words, however.

 

[Sparklin]

Hi Sparklin. I see that your in Ontario. My Dad lived in Windsor until he was 14 and the family moved to California. I'm not sure if a police liaison would happen if your an "undeclared" suspect. But it may have helped to keep the lines of communications open if a person was assigned as liaison at the beginning. JMO.

Hey Ranch ~ when I said EXACTLY the same issues as DB, I meant exactly. She failed poly, she was accused during questioning, an officer watched her every move. Now, almost exactly as DB, there was a lot of controversy in her stories/actions. But she was innocent in the long run. Not sure if I can post a link here if it's MSM since it would be off topic, but if you search apology and Tara McDonald, you'll get an idea.

Sweet Tori Stafford was what brought me here originally

eta: Your dad is better off in California no doubt

 

[Sparklin]

Could it be the laws/rules in Canada are more lax? Do you have any insight into that angle? I have no idea, not from Canada.

Alot of missing child cases I have followed in the US the main complaint from the family is LE won't tell them anything going on with the investigation.

i just google this http://trickorvotewiki.pbworks.com/f/Police+Liaison.pdf
but I'll try to find out any info on Canada rules/laws regarding it.

I think if U.S doesn't have it, they should!

eta: Could take care of the high priced lawyers!!

 

[Sparklin]

She may not have been as drunk as she stated she was. She might be using the drunk card to conveniently "forget" a lot of things. And, the river is very close by.

Even though the river is nearby, I believe it has been stated that it would be very difficult in the dark to make your way down the embarkment(sic), through the trees to the river, even without being intoxicated. So that brings us back to a vehicle.

 

[RANCH]

Hey Ranch ~ when I said EXACTLY the same issues as DB, I meant exactly. She failed poly, she was accused during questioning, an officer watched her every move. Now, almost exactly as DB, there was a lot of controversy in her stories/actions. But she was innocent in the long run. Not sure if I can post a link here if it's MSM since it would be off topic, but if you search apology and Tara McDonald, you'll get an idea.

Sweet Tori Stafford was what brought me here originally

eta: Your dad is better off in California no doubt

Sadly Dad passed away a couple of years ago but I still have a certain affinity to Canada. I was able to make some trips with Dad up north a few times and loved each trip. Dad never missed having to shovel snow. LOL

 

[Seth]

I believe just the way JI the husband looks at DB tells it all! Something happened on her watch that night with baby Lisa, I think she put her to bed with her after over medicating her. Then when JI got home and discovered the horror of what happened he decided for some reason it was in his best interest too to help cover up the crime scene, and if he did he is just as quilty too! I believe he placed her in the river with the fast current. Where and why wasn't Tim Miller called in on this case?

 

[1tasha]

Oh..my..I could so comment on that post above...about the LAW. *biting lip*

Yes. I'm confused about the 1st 10 Amendments being set apart from the Bill of Rights, myself. Also the violation of 5th Amendment rights taking place outside of a court room and against neither declared witnesses or suspects. This case IS convoluted..

 

[yllek]

New search discoveries and and a new "family background" article just posted in the MSM thread for today, for those interested.

 

[Jan]

In the beginning, I strongly believed that the mother was innocent and that she had nothing to do with baby Lisa's disappearance and no knowledge of what happened to her. As time has gone on and her story has changed and she's admitted being drunk on her watch and she has failed to cooperate fully with the police--well, I think she knows or has a good idea what happened to the baby. She may even have done something to the baby herself. The stranger theory just doesn't make a lot of sense anymore. DB was, at the very least, a very neglectful mother. And why won't she let police question her and her husband separately and let specialists question her boys. She is hiding something.

 

[Chewy]

I said it before and I'll say it again. It is inconceivable that she didn't check on her daughter before she went to bed. I'm assuming something happened and she used the "drunk" story to cover up a time of death if they did find the body and could determine when the baby died.

For example if she said she checked on Lisa at 10 pm (wasn't that her original claim) and they find that the baby died at 8-9 pm then she will have placed herself as seeing the baby after the baby had died.

So she is saying she didn't see her at all. But if you think about it, it just doesn't make any sense at all to make that claim. She seems to be a pretty good mother in spite of the drinking. Frankly I'm not all freaked out about her drinking because although I've never gotten drunk around my kids when they were that little, when they got older than 12 I would have a few drinks while posting online as they slept. I doubt she had any reason to worry, she has a friendly relationship with a neighbor and husband was supposed to come home, she wasn't a single mother.

Her tears are real, and so that tells me it was an accident. I don't think someone could fake tears like that if they had maliciously and deliberately killed their child. She may have lost her temper and thrown the baby or something crazy like that, but I don't think she intended to kill her.

The other thing I was considering is if the father came home and found the baby dead and just took the baby out of the house. In doing so he actually did abduct the baby and maybe DB is completely innocent of knowing what happened to the baby.

To me her story falls completely apart though when she said she went straight to bed without checking on the baby. Even if you are pissed off and don't want to deal with the baby, you can't tell me a normal mother would lay a baby down for that many hours and not check before going to sleep. That many hours later would require a diaper change or something.

If she was a druggie or some raging alcoholic I would be more prone to believe that she didn't check. Or if she was a bad mom, but she doesn't seem like a bad mom.

She checked on the baby and the baby was dead. Not a few minutes dead where you'd rush to 911 but cold and blue dead. I think she may have over medicated the baby.

 

[cluciano63]

Well I guess it all depends on one's priorities. Do I cover my *advertiser censored*, or do I help the police find my baby? If I know my baby is dead and they can correctly blame me, I will cover my *advertiser censored*, get a defense attorney and not talk. If not, I will cooperate.

Honestly, with a missing abducted baby, I am not gonna worry that I might give a false confession. What do you say to your kid if she is recovered from a captor's torture chamber, 20 years later? "Sorry about that hon, I would have cooperated, but they were going to torture me into making a false confession that I was responsible. That didn't work out so well for you though, did it?"

Thanks for the mini course on the 5th amendment. But somehow, I don't think there was waterboarding going on at the KCPD HQ. This is real life, not a TV movie.

No kidding. And how does one falsely confess in a missing persons case anyway? A confession has to make sense, it can't be the only thing used to charge a person. The "confessor" would have to know where the body could be found, for instance. Otherwise any kook could go in and confess, and LE probably has to contend to with habitual "confessors" in many cases. I can't imagine any fear for myself being greater than my fear for the baby. All of this "big bad LE" really would make me laugh if it wasn't so serious. JMO

 

[joyless]

Bottom line is these parents are not doing a darn thing to help find thier supposedly kidnapped baby. And I am supposed to feel bad for them? I don't think so. They are clever...they are not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth... I think they know the longer no baby is found, the less chance they will be busted. Yes, Yes, Yes...this is my opinion...only. I wasn't a fly on the wall.

 

[HMSHood]

I am still not sure, but I think Deborah Bradley or anyone who knows Lisa Irwin could be the suspect.

 

[mlc9852]

Even though the river is nearby, I believe it has been stated that it would be very difficult in the dark to make your way down the embarkment(sic), through the trees to the river, even without being intoxicated. So that brings us back to a vehicle.

So you don't think DB was drunk? And surely LE checked vehicles with cadaver dogs. I think LE knows a whole lot more than we do and I think they have a good idea of those involved with Baby Lisa.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://localtvwdaf.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/irwincourtdocument.pdf

Three Boxes X'ed

X property,article,material, or substance that constitutes evidence in the commission of a crime.

X Property for which possession is an offense of this state.

X Deceased human fetus or corpse, or part there of;

 

[JeannaT]

http://localtvwdaf.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/irwincourtdocument.pdf

Three Boxes X'ed

X property,article,material, or substance that constitutes evidence in the commission of a crime.

X Property for which possession is an offense of this state.

X Deceased human fetus or corpse, or part there of;

Yes, that's what they were searching for. We don't know what they actually found.

I am pretty sure, though, we can rule out that they found a deceased human fetus or corpse.