A New Year; where is Lisa Irwin?

[Jacie Estes]

I still tend to have hope for the same reasons you do, Jacie. All the searches, and nothing solid has turned up as evidence of Lisa being harmed in the Irwin home.

I do tend to think that someone known to the family - not necessarily friends, but perhaps friend of a friend, or acquaintance, or neighborhood person, etc - was involved. But I see nothing yet, aside from the admittedly unfavorable statistics, to indicate she was harmed or hidden by her parents.

O/T - I love your sig about Columbus, Jacie! :wave:

O/T- Thanks. It is actually the title of a lesson plan that I developed for 11/12th grade classes contrasting the different migration theories, as pertain to the North American Continent and American Indian Creationism stories, as per Vine DeLoria,with the 'Columbus discovered America' theory:

CLOVIS THEORY

BERINGIA LAND THEORY

WATERCRAFT MIGRATION-PRE CLOVIS

DNA THEORY

 

[No Stone Unturned]

I admit that I stopped following this case as it failed to progress. My theory relies on the dumpster fire. It can't be coincidental.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Where is she? I suspect that what's left of her is somewhere downstream. Have to ask Deborah to know for sure, or that's what I believe.

Sadly, for Lisa and everyone who has followed this case, even if Lisa's body is recovered now it would require a miracle for there to be enough evidence to secure a conviction. It's sad and infuriating, but there it is.

 

[~n/t~]

:rocker:

There was a breaking and entering reported and stolen cell phones too.

911 call. Was that ever released?

 

[norest4thewicked]

I still don't understand the reasoning behind the fact that a handful still think that the parents couldn't have done it. I'd like to hear the simple answer as to WHY JI and DB won't talk to LE if they are innocent. And, please save the stale argument that "they did talk to LE," because it's clear that they didn't talk to them enough. I would STILL be talking to LE and would have done it every single day if my child were missing. So, what reason is there other than this silly argument?

 

[DeAnn]

911 call. Was that ever released?

The Kansas City Police Department denied media requests for the 911 call and dash-cam video under exceptions in the Missouri Open Records Law.

911 recordings are specifically excluded in Missouri. Dash cam videos are a grey area.

Dispatch logs are public and those were released. Search warrants are public unless sealed, as we well know in this case.

 

[Sparklin]

Just read the article with Mark Fuhrman's statements and agree with him 100% especially his statement that if Lisa's parents wanted to talk to anyone about this case that they should go to the police department and talk to LE. LE is still interested in talking with Lisa's parents and they are still refusing to talk with them separately. It is standard procedure to question witnesses in a case separately, just the fact that DB and JI will not shouts out.

BBM1 = when was the last time LE has said that? Do you have a link or time frame? ETA: saw the post with tweet from JS - thanks!

BBM2 = where did you hear that? When was the last time we were told that by anyone credible?? Again, do you have a link or time frame? ETA: same as above.

Thanks so much
***************************

So, with the tweet from JS we have the police saying they still want to speak with D&J ~ it doesn't specify separately in the tweet...I wonder if they are still hard core on that? or if D&J are now unwilling to speak with them in any way, shape or form??? I wonder, considering all test results should be in by now, why no one has been arrested or 'brought in' for questioning??!! I wonder about the blanket and clothing that supposedly had been 'hit' on??!! Surely all results are back by now! Why haven't these parents been arrested if their daughters dna was all over that 'hit' area, blanket, clothing etc... Hmmmm....

 

[In da Middle]

I still don't understand the reasoning behind the fact that a handful still think that the parents couldn't have done it. I'd like to hear the simple answer as to WHY JI and DB won't talk to LE if they are innocent. And, please save the stale argument that "they did talk to LE," because it's clear that they didn't talk to them enough. I would STILL be talking to LE and would have done it every single day if my child were missing. So, what reason is there other than this silly argument?

I am not one who thinks the parents couldn't have done it but to answer your question is because Joe T has told them to not talk to LE. I am sure if the went against his advice, he would bolt ( I personally dont think that is a bad outcome, in fact one I would prefer). They are taking his advice on this IMO because they were doing what most perceive as all of the right things before they started talking to him.
Now question for others, I would like a simple answer as to what SOLID EVIDENCE is there that they did it? And please save the stale argument of the cadaver dog hit as we have no clue as to what it hit on or if the dogs brought in on the 17 hour search warrant even hit on anything to verify what the previous dog did. They only took 7 items from the house after this search and it did not include any flooring, beds, furniture or vehicles of which a dead baby would lie on or be disposed of from.

 

[vlpate]

I am not one who thinks the parents couldn't have done it but to answer your question is because Joe T has told them to not talk to LE. I am sure if the went against his advice, he would bolt ( I personally dont think that is a bad outcome, in fact one I would prefer). They are taking his advice on this IMO because they were doing what most perceive as all of the right things before they started talking to him.
Now question for others, I would like a simple answer as to what SOLID EVIDENCE is there that they did it? And please save the stale argument of the cadaver dog hit as we have no clue as to what it hit on or if the dogs brought in on the 17 hour search warrant even hit on anything to verify what the previous dog did. They only took 7 items from the house after this search and it did not include any flooring, beds, furniture or vehicles of which a dead baby would lie on or be disposed of from.

So, sitting in their house, following the directive of man who still takes up for JVDS, instead of moving heaven and earth to find their missing BABY is the best thing for .... whom?

IMO, they know exactly where she is so why look? They're going on Dr. Phil, but not to the police station...the police station doesn't pay enough...IMO.

 

[In da Middle]

So, sitting in their house, following the directive of man who still takes up for JVDS, instead of moving heaven and earth to find their missing BABY is the best thing for .... whom?

IMO, they know exactly where she is so why look? They're going on Dr. Phil, but not to the police station...the police station doesn't pay enough...IMO.

BBM IMO everything he has 'advised' them to do is the best thing for HIM. Him being Joe T. I have never thought he was looking out for anybody but himself. I really dont see him having his clients best interest in mind at all. I see him as the one who thinks about the money only.

I can only hope that this reported 'rift' in the family consists of ditching JT and getting somebody who cares more about their client than themselves.

ETA also remember Cyndy was canned when she started opening up to the media. She was making the calls when JT was out roaming over in Europe and IMO he did not like this. Her dialogue with the media is what I think he was miffed over.

 

[Minette]

I am not one who thinks the parents couldn't have done it but to answer your question is because Joe T has told them to not talk to LE. I am sure if the went against his advice, he would bolt ( I personally dont think that is a bad outcome, in fact one I would prefer). They are taking his advice on this IMO because they were doing what most perceive as all of the right things before they started talking to him.
Now question for others, I would like a simple answer as to what SOLID EVIDENCE is there that they did it? And please save the stale argument of the cadaver dog hit as we have no clue as to what it hit on or if the dogs brought in on the 17 hour search warrant even hit on anything to verify what the previous dog did. They only took 7 items from the house after this search and it did not include any flooring, beds, furniture or vehicles of which a dead baby would lie on or be disposed of from.

So well said. This sums up my view of things as well. I don't think they couldn't have done it (whatever 'it' was) I just need more actual evidence to make up my mind.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I never in a million years thought baby Lisa would be missing this long.
I wish everyone involved in her life cooperates with LE.

 

[askfornina]

BBM IMO everything he has 'advised' them to do is the best thing for HIM. Him being Joe T. I have never thought he was looking out for anybody but himself. I really dont see him having his clients best interest in mind at all. I see him as the one who thinks about the money only.

I can only hope that this reported 'rift' in the family consists of ditching JT and getting somebody who cares more about their client than themselves.

ETA also remember Cyndy was canned when she started opening up to the media. She was making the calls when JT was out roaming over in Europe and IMO he did not like this. Her dialogue with the media is what I think he was miffed over.

I agree. BBM. I was going through all my links for this case, and I found this great article I had forgotten about. worth a reread.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-we-might-not-get-the-happy-ending-that-we-want

 

[In da Middle]

(This is one of those "this post falls at random, no finger-pointing at any particular individual" things.)

Where is she? In the river, I would think, with the answers lying very close to home.

Or at least, statistically speaking, they would seem to lie there, inside those four walls. But who can say, who has been blessed with such second sight, to be able to discern what did take place that night, what actually did happen to Lisa Irwin?

Well, on these threads, many seem to feel they're gifted in such a manner, have the great godlike ability to recognize guilt. On a supposedly victim-friendly forum the edges soon grew tattered and quickly burst apart, the margins blown by those thinking themselves omniscient. The penalty of death by a thousand cuts has already been administered.

That's why I quit posting on the Irwin threads. The vindictiveness of some, the rush to judgement, overran the group conversation. It's certainly fine to believe - as I still may - that those accountable are those closest to the baby. But the continual grasping at straws to condemn based on the slightest provocations - provocations evidently clear to some observers in their need to affix blame - over and over again the picking apart of human lives - sorry. That in itself is a wrong.

Just reading back a little ways and had to say 'Thank You' for stating this just this way.

 

[askfornina]

Not sure where else to post this, but I have never seen this posted before. It's a raw interview with David Netz Sr, Lisa's great grandfather.

http://www.kmbc.com/video/29497586/detail.html

 

[RANCH]

Not sure where else to post this, but I have never seen this posted before. It's a raw interview with David Netz Sr, Lisa's great grandfather.

http://www.kmbc.com/video/29497586/detail.html

I remember seeing this video before. But when I first saw it, I was confused with the names. I thought that the gentleman in the video was Deborah's father. What your saying is it's her grandfather.

 

[askfornina]

I remember seeing this video before. But when I first saw it, I was confused with the names. I thought that the gentleman in the video was Deborah's father. What your saying is it's her grandfather.

Yes, that is correct. David Netz Jr. is DB's father, here is a picture of him and Lisa:

 

[KsStormy]

Yes, that is correct. David Netz Jr. is DB's father, here is a picture of him and Lisa:

I know this is off-topic, but looking at that pic & remembering how the witness described the man carrying the baby with the baby 's head under his chin, wouldn't she have to be carried with her head on your shoulder? She seems too big to be carried against your chest, like a smaller baby is carried.:waitasec:

 

[In da Middle]

I know this is off-topic, but looking at that pic & remembering how the witness described the man carrying the baby with the baby 's head under his chin, wouldn't she have to be carried with her head on your shoulder? She seems too big to be carried against your chest, like a smaller baby is carried.:waitasec:

But here is also a very alert, very awake baby. A sleeping baby would be much more 'tucked' in, as in cradled maybe or even shielding from prying eyes. No shielding, cradling or tucking in this pic. Placement would also depend on the height of the person that is carrying the baby.

 

[Sparklin]

I totally agree. I know the popular opinion on this board (and elsewhere online) is that DB is guilty 100% no doubt, and people must think I am looney tunes for believing differently. I just do not believe that it is that definite for multiple reasons that have been debated and debated some more. I still consider myself to be on the fence, but I'm not going to lie, I will be shocked if DB did this.

I was going over some videos today, and I watched this raw footage of JI's parents. I had forgotten about this. At the end of this video, the camera moves off of the grandparents and shifts to DB in the corner of the room, crying. Crying without knowing the camera was pointed at her. I just..I can't even describe how that makes me feel. I just do not believe that is acting. I don't believe those first interviews are fake tears. I don't believe that pain is not real. like I said, I will be so shocked if she did this.

http://www.kmbc.com/video/29509905/detail.html

This case has been so hard for me. I've been here since about Oct.9th. I have followed it very closely since then, I've seen about 99% of the information. It is so hard being in the minority. But I can't help the way I feel about this. If I am wrong, it will be extremely difficult for me. What would be worse though, is not ever knowing.

I hope so much that Baby Lisa is found. or at the very least, somehow we find out what happened to her. I hope her parents, if innocent, do not have to go through that pain of not knowing for the rest of their lives. if Lisa is no longer with us, I pray she did not suffer. I do think there is still a possibility she is alive.

may 2012 bring answers and truth.

And I totally agree xox