A rather "personal" question about female part

[voynich]

I don't think she was lifted as she was strangled. The coroner noted the ligature furrow was circumferential, showing little movement up or down. If she was lifted, there would be a distinct upward slant to the mark on her neck. It would be similar to a hanging, and I think the coroner would have noted that.

That pic made me thing that,
What you say makes sense but

What's the red line underneath the ligature :waitasec:

 

[DeeDee249]

That pic made me thing that,
What you say makes sense but

What's the red line underneath the ligature :waitasec:

One of two things, It was either a second furrow, which neither furrow indicates a hanging or lifting -type strangulation where her body weight pulled her down against the ligature (in this case, there would be marks higher near her jaw and chin, and the furrow would be deeper in that section of the neck and faint or even absent in the back),

Or it is a mark from the folds of the skin of her neck, if her chin was pointing down. But from looking at the photo, I think it is a second ligature furrow. The ligature may have been moved by the coroner for the purposes of photographing the marks.

 

[voynich]

I haven't NEEDED to tell you lately. You've been doing a bang-up job on your own.

I told you once: if you would not be my knight, you would be my pawn.

So, how would you prefer to die, in your sleep or in the reactor shaft?

 

[BBB167893]

So, how would you prefer to die, in your sleep or in the reactor shaft?

Stabbed through the heart while splattered with the innards of my enemies and wading in blood up to my waist.

But to you, my wayward apprentice, I shall give one final gift: a fast death, infinitely better than the shame of returning to your IDI brethren a broken, defeated man. Among them your legacy will be one of failure. A pariah desperately chasing the favor of those who now curse your name.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQvJ1OKgEZk[/ame]

 

[voynich]

Dark Seid looks a lot like Apocalpyse

You shall be my horsemen, we shall have a new investigation in fire and iron


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ftg8rX_sIc&feature=related[/ame]

 

[madeleine]

And, I found Sophie's remark particularly offensive and vile in that she took it out of context, as I also suggested we use models or animals to test whether the strangulation came first or head blow.

Are you really sick or something.I hope you ain't got pets at home.And I hope your neighbours don't have any as well.If THIS is not a warning sign.........thank God this is the internet and we don't have to meet in real life.:furious:

 

[Sophie]

Are you really sick or something.I hope you ain't got pets at home.And I hope your neighbours don't have any as well.If THIS is not a warning sign.........thank God this is the internet and we don't have to meet in real life.:furious:

Well, apparently there are no boundaries for private citizens investigating this crime. That's plain.

 

[akashana]

I don't often post on this thread, but feel this should be mentioned. (I'll preface this with the opinion that RDI)

I believe it likely that although JR was probably abusing JB in some ways, the erosion of the hymen could have come from self-play or consensual sexual exploration with other children. For instance, if JR refrained from penetration, but engaged in stroking, petting or other manual genital manipulation that gave his daughter sexual pleasure and awakened her sexuality for the first time, no matter how inappropriately, she might have tried to stimulate herself the same way or even further, i.e., insertion of finger or foreign objects, vigorously rubbing her genital area against something that would, over time, erode the hymen further. I imagine if JR routinely spread her legs wider and wider during molestation, this could also cause tiny tears in the membrane and eroded it.

Also, if Daddy was diddling her and she liked the sensations and attention, she could seek out Burke or others to play house or doctor, and engage him in much of the same play. But because he wouldn't be aware of the need to protect the hymen, he was rougher with his explorations, and the hymen receded further on the vaginal opening.

IOW, I believe it's likely that JR was the first, but not the only one, who explored JB sexually.

 

[DeeDee249]

I suppose we could speculate forever about whether JB engaged in sex play or was being abused or whether she masturbated. The housekeeper had already said she suspected BR was engaging in "sex play" or exploration with his sister, claiming she caught them playing under a blanket in BR's room. The kids were reportedly upset when she entered the room, particularly BR.
While I concede that the sexual abuse of JB plays a part in this case, I must reinforce the FACT that this is a 6 year old girl who was found MURDERED, with evidence that her own BLOOD was wiped from her pubic area and thighs.
Regardless of what notions are held about how pleasurable sex play actually is to a 6-year old girl, I doubt JB felt pleasure of whatever caused that bleeding and I doubt even more that it was the result of masturbation.
Just a bit of enlightenment here- inserting anything into the vagina of a female of ANY age that causes BLEEDING is NOT pleasurable.
The constant speculating about whether JB had orgasms and whether she masturbated does a disservice to her and to any other child that was assaulted.
Yes, kids do that sometimes. But let's not forget that this is primarily a MURDER case, not a sexual abuse case. There is abuse involved, to be sure. But this is about finding her DEAD first and foremost, and who may have been the killer, and how she came to be in that condition in the basement of her own house at a time when there were only 3 people known to be in the home (2 of them her parents) with no sign of any one else having been in the home.

 

[BBB167893]

Darkseid looks a lot like Apocalpyse

Ha. An insect compared to the Lord of Destruction.

Just so we don't lose track of the topic, how many of you here have heard of Holly Smith? Why is that important? You'll find out shortly.

 

[BBB167893]

I don't often post on this thread, but feel this should be mentioned. (I'll preface this with the opinion that RDI)

I believe it likely that although JR was probably abusing JB in some ways, the erosion of the hymen could have come from self-play or consensual sexual exploration with other children. For instance, if JR refrained from penetration, but engaged in stroking, petting or other manual genital manipulation that gave his daughter sexual pleasure and awakened her sexuality for the first time, no matter how inappropriately, she might have tried to stimulate herself the same way or even further, i.e., insertion of finger or foreign objects, vigorously rubbing her genital area against something that would, over time, erode the hymen further. I imagine if JR routinely spread her legs wider and wider during molestation, this could also cause tiny tears in the membrane and eroded it.

Also, if Daddy was diddling her and she liked the sensations and attention, she could seek out Burke or others to play house or doctor, and engage him in much of the same play. But because he wouldn't be aware of the need to protect the hymen, he was rougher with his explorations, and the hymen receded further on the vaginal opening.

IOW, I believe it's likely that JR was the first, but not the only one, who explored JB sexually.

akashana, you've given us a lot to think about.

 

[Sophie]

Voynich, no one has ever denied that there were and are paedophiles who harmed children in Boulder. It's actually an urban myth that most of them weren't checked out. ST talks about this in an interview in which he doubts the existence of a paedophile conspiracy.

So, I'm not sure that this changes anything, especially when you bear in mind the widely-held view in LE and in the paediatric profession that the fatal attack on JBR was not motivated by sexual gratification. I think you only have to bear in mind the RN and the fact that the perp has stayed off the radar for 13 long years since the death to realise that the paedophile/sick puppy scenario is the least likely explanation for JBR's death.

 

[Sophie]

There is so much to be alarmed about in JBR's toileting habits. I don't mean the bed-wetting since we all know this happens (although there is a query going on elsewhere about why Patsy didn't procure some of those 'alarmed' sheets that seem to 'cure' the problem within a few days).

Similarly, Patsy claimed to have told JBR that there were very few people who should touch her 'swim suit' area, a discussion which you'd presume would mark the onset of the age of modesty. Yet JBR would ask literally anybody to wipe her. She had been coached in dance steps and lengthy songs, to sashay on stage and wear formal clothing, to perform songs for her class-mates, to share her cup-cakes, to worry that Burke got less money than she got (according to Nedra) but reverted to infancy over her toileting. Some may say that this indicated a desperate attempt to hold onto her child-hood while it was being eroded by the pageants etc. Others will talk about dangerously blurred boundaries. Everyone has to admit, though, that this is a behavioural red flag.

The encopresis is another major red flag. One of the shrinks who came on the forums pretty much explained that the very least this showed was huge stress.


Add this to the view held by the experts appointed by LE and by various other commentators that the damage to JBR's vagine was unlikely to be self-inflicted, and you have to conclude that, taken holistically, the only reasonable conclusion is that JBR had been exposed to some sexuality other than her own.

 

[BOESP]

For those interested in the methodology of analysis of data, you might want to check this Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

Sophie's post immediately above shows more than one application of Occam's Razor.

 

[Sophie]

For those interested in the methodology of analysis of data, you might want to check this Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

Sophie's post immediately above shows more than one application of Occam's Razor.

Oh Lordy: HOTYH will have a view on this

 

[DeeDee249]

Oh Lordy: HOTYH will have a view on this

Bring it!

 

[voynich]

For those interested in the methodology of analysis of data, you might want to check this Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

Sophie's post immediately above shows more than one application of Occam's Razor.

Please apply your methodology of analysis of data and Occam's razor to the post below:

Before I had children, I remember a comedian saying, "As the father of 3 girls, I underestimated the number of times I would have to say, 'don't put that in your vagina'"

I now have two little girls (3 and 7.5). I have one child who loves to stick things in her vagina. Suckers, fingers, etc. I don't know if it enough to actually cause damage to her hymen, but it is possible.

My other daughter has many of the same isses JB had, including bedwetting, not liking to bathe, and poor wiping skills. Coincidentally, she has also participated in pageants. The combination of these factors often makes her itchy "down there". I could see her itching herself vigorously enough to cause some damage.'' In addition, Patsy may have had to touch her to apply creme (like vagasil or similar product).

So to me, the hymen erosion does not offer evidence of IDI or RDI.

And for the record, if someone said one of my daughters were sexually abused, I would be extremely defensive also.

 

[voynich]

Are you really sick or something.I hope you ain't got pets at home.And I hope your neighbours don't have any as well.If THIS is not a warning sign.........thank God this is the internet and we don't have to meet in real life.:furious:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amdQRO_pofc[/ame]

 

[voynich]

Ha. An insect compared to the Lord of Destruction. '

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv1USJIPaSw[/ame]

 

[voynich]

Are you really sick or something.I hope you ain't got pets at home.And I hope your neighbours don't have any as well.If THIS is not a warning sign.........thank God this is the internet and we don't have to meet in real life.:furious:

:sponge:

:weaklink:
:hen::lamb::viking: