a view from the inside: observations from our own court observers #5

[Sedonia Sunset]

One other thing to keep in mind... having watched 2 juries during 2 different murder trials in my area, while you can get a feel for jury members, what you can't know in advance is how the group of final 12 will work together when they are in the jury room, doing their job of deliberating. I know there's lots of fear about the "what ifs." Twelve people who use their common sense aren't going to think what JA did was either fine or justified or done in self defense. She's going to prison for at least the rest of her life and may just get the death penalty (that to me is the only mystery in this case--LWOP or DP). She won't be a free woman and even *if* for some odd reason she were to be convicted of a lesser offense (a charge which is not currently on the books), she would still spend many decades in prison. 30 to 50 years and that would be her best case scenario.

She's not going free. 12 people will not agree she was justified in killing Travis. There is no self-defense proved. She's going away. The question is, for the rest of her life? Until she gets the needle (decades away as well), or for 'only' many decades? No one need fear her. She's not coming after you, your children or your grandchildren. Her only way out of prison will be in a pine box.

Thank you for reminding us of that fact. It reminds me of the Manson murders and how the killers chased some of the people down outside, and how they ALL were stabbed and sliced in a frenzy. JA has a lot in common with them in the way that she slaughtered Travis, and she'll have a lot in common with them in that she will probably NEVER get out of prison.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

@WildAboutTrial

I like when ppl ask me if the jury is "buying it" like they all have a little lighted sign over their heads that say "buying it". #JodiArias


@WildAboutTrial

I will be selling "buying it" signs outside of court later today. The "maam you don't get to ask questions" shirts have sold out.

I have a BUY IT NOW sign over my head (buying into JM's case, that is)

 

[marciec]

Ok, I'm gonna make a list so bear with me ok? Then I'm gonna hit the hay for a long court day tomorrow.

1. I'm actually astounded this case ever went to trial as the evidence against this murderer is SO STRONG (heck she admitted she did it firstly). She killed him, she's trying to save her life and costing MY tax dollars (and the jury's) by telling yet another series of lies.

2. The evidence for first degree murder is OVERWHELMING.

3. I watch this jury and NONE that I can see are showing any signs of sympathy for her.

4. She destroyed her own credibility on the stand.

5. Her second plea, Dr. Samuels also destroyed all credibility on the stand.

6. Her third and final plea doesn't realize that she's actually tesifying for the state. Juan will tie that all up for them though.

7. I sat through not one but TWO death penalty trials in this State both resulting in conviction and death. Neither was as strong as this case.

8. If this jury finds her guilty, which imo they will easily, they would have to think outside the box to find this crime does not qualify for the death penalty based on instructions and definitions.

9. This is a "death qualified" jury...they've all already said they'd have no problem handing down a death sentence. If any crime qualified for death it's this one. It's not subjective...it is a formula they are to find: if you find this crime for which you've convicted her, meets this a, b c criteria, then the appropriate sentence to hand down is death. Again they'd have to step OUTSIDE those definitions to not go with death.

10. This is a completely unsympathetic defendant. No matter how her team tries to sell sympathy for her, it just seems to make matters worse. Again there is not one juror who concerns me in terms of overt sympathy for her.

Far far more cases that go to trial result in conviction than not. We had a couple of high profile ones that didn't have that result but they are unicorns in the grand scheme of things.

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing to lose by fervently throwing all of my belief and wholeheartedness in to this prosecution team's competence, fighting spirit and being on the side of RIGHT.

NO ONE wants Jodi Arias out on the street again.

Finally, this case I've said all along will be decided for guilt in the rebuttal phase. Just wait for that. I think you will be able to exhale by the end of that. if not, we'll talk again. :seeya:

Now...I bid you a goodnight!

Thanks for this, KCL..I too am almost convinced this will be a just verdict. The only thing that gives me pause is this point. (bold) Seems the higher the profile, the more everyone walks on eggshells for the defendant. I live in FL, very close to the home of the infamous Pinellas County jury. CA was in my hometown recently for a bankruptcy hearing, and I still can't believe she's not in prison. grrrrr!!
Anyway, we all pray you're right so this family can claim justice for their brother. The day they announce "guilty" will be a good day. Looking forward to the day the siblings get to address her in court. Another good day. (sad, but good..)

 

[Nocturnal 911]

Just curious if many of you are also following this case on The State vs. Jodi Arias FB page and Juan Martinez Prosecutor Support FB page etc??

I'm full blown addicted to both and find some pretty neat peeps there too

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Katiecoolady, I'm so pleased that your "day off" and champagne has allowed you to gather your resources to attend court today.

I know Alyce did interview Jodi, but I don't know if she will address any of her issues, independent of Travis to show she suffered domestic abuse. On HLN, which I un-mute for commentary, Beth Karas indicated a couple of times that she should be discussing Jodi soon. It never happened, but that endless seminar went on.

Apparently, I developed PTSD in my childhood (before there was even a name for it) due to a crazy sister and family discord due to that. I was always an excellent coper and just lived with anxiety until in my early 50's when I had an awful experience which was work-related and without violence. That sent me for help.

Now, listening to Dr. $ and Alyce, panic attacks have come back big time! I have to wonder if some members of the jury and her family members are also having flashbacks to their early or current lives based on the very thorough discussion of PTSD and abuse. Her seminar has been very broad and very much historical, though lacking an update to the 21st century, much like Dr. $. That would explain their close listening and they are thinking more about their own lives than Jodi and Travis.

It will only be when Juan, our Superhero comes back on cross that this pain will go away. The focus will be back on who was the abuser and who was the abused.

Ativan, anyone? Works great!

 

[Madeleine74]

Now, listening to Dr. $ and Alyce, panic attacks have come back big time!

It will only be when Juan, our Superhero comes back on cross that this pain will go away. The focus will be back on who was the abuser and who was the abused.

Ativan, anyone? Works great!

Aww this is sad and highlights the downside of following a murder trial closely. If listening to testimony is causing anxiety, please turn it off and take a break for a few days or stop following it altogether. Your health and well-being have to come first! The trial is not worth getting ill. :'(

 

[nursebeeme]

Just curious if many of you are also following this case on The State vs. Jodi Arias FB page and Juan Martinez Prosecutor Support FB page etc??

I'm full blown addicted to both and find some pretty neat peeps there too

welcome to websleuths nocturnal 911 :rocker:

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Aww this is sad and highlights the downside of following a murder trial closely. If listening to testimony is causing anxiety, please turn it off and take a break for a few days or stop following it altogether. Your health and well-being have to come first! The trial is not worth getting ill. :'(

Wouldn't dream of missing a moment, even if it's just listening from my sofa! :great:

I blogged the hearings, motions, jury selection, and the whole Casey Anthony trial and never had this exact reaction. If I could do that for 3 years, I can do this.

 

[snowcat]

Anyone know why JA is limping? Shivved in the leg by her cellmate?

mirroring Samuels?

I'm mocking Arias' sociopathy here and her constant manipulations to garner sympathy. I've been limping for years due to nerve damage...

 

[snowcat]

If she didn't interview JA, what's the point of her testimony? Are we going to get an endless stream of "I can't say with certainty that she was abused, but doing (or not doing) X would be consistent with someone who was" testimony?

Is the whole point - other than planting seeds in the jurors' minds - to try to get the judge to give this instruction that they have to look at JA's actions from the point of view of a battered woman when there has been zero evidence of it other than from the mouth of a known liar? Doesn't the defense need some semblance of evidence to switch the burden to the prosecution on that?

It looks like a mystery from here. Do you get some sense of what's actually going on from hanging around the courtroom?

I'm so confused. I thought she did interview her and that was why she was part of the hearing where Juan asked her if Arias told her the pedo images were on the computer? I think I'm missing something

If she hasn't interviewed her, my worry is that the jury will think she did interview Arias and think battered scenario is relevant to her. Hopefully Juan can ask her if she did?

 

[Novice Seeker]

They don't want her out of court. Mike Gallanos on HLN said today that they were told they were not to talk about the cost of the trial anymore. He said that DT was afraid that some of the jurors might accidentally hear how much is being spent, and rush a verdict instead of letting the cost add up anymore.

Next the DT will be getting a motion of protection from the court ordering everyone not to discuss why they believe Jodi's guilty. :what:

 

[crimesnooper]

I would feel differently if Casey Anthony had been convicted of a least one major charge..having said that..I honestly think JA will be convicted of second degree murder. When you read other threads and listen to some of the talking heads, there is real concern that JM has not handled this case well. That he went off point too often for things that really did not speak to what will get her convicted. I realize that with Az law and allowing the jurors to ask Qs, that this trial has gone on too long and that's part of the problem. I feel the judge should have maintained better control from both sides. I do feel that at least one juror will not dismiss Dr. Samual's conclusions complelty and the texts/tapes of TA will convince at least one juror that he was no saint...therefore I see a "compromise" verdict. Just MO

 

[Renee110]

This speaks very much to some of the hunches and feelings I'm getting, more and more each day.

I just couldn't ignore these feelings I kept getting with my brief spontaneous encounters with her. I've just been adding things up and ...I just think things are not what they appear.

Today hearing JA has KICKED her for no reason...this is probably the tip of the iceberg. She knows her far better than anyone else I suspect and has been on the receiving end of her abuse and mental torture probably every one of her 32 years.

I hope hope hope that kicking the dog tape comes in through this witness.

Quoted this post, but wanted to say this was in response to someone saying they feel that JA's mom wants her to go be convicted and is afraid of her. But what about her mom taking the pedo letters to The Enquirer and trying to get them published? Doesn't sound to me like she wants her locked up. Sounds like she is on JA's side. Not arguing here....just curious.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Ok, I'm gonna make a list so bear with me ok? Then I'm gonna hit the hay for a long court day tomorrow.

1. I'm actually astounded this case ever went to trial as the evidence against this murderer is SO STRONG (heck she admitted she did it firstly). She killed him, she's trying to save her life and costing MY tax dollars (and the jury's) by telling yet another series of lies.

2. The evidence for first degree murder is OVERWHELMING.

3. I watch this jury and NONE that I can see are showing any signs of sympathy for her.

4. She destroyed her own credibility on the stand.

5. Her second plea, Dr. Samuels also destroyed all credibility on the stand.

6. Her third and final plea doesn't realize that she's actually tesifying for the state. Juan will tie that all up for them though.

7. I sat through not one but TWO death penalty trials in this State both resulting in conviction and death. Neither was as strong as this case.

8. If this jury finds her guilty, which imo they will easily, they would have to think outside the box to find this crime does not qualify for the death penalty based on instructions and definitions.

9. This is a "death qualified" jury...they've all already said they'd have no problem handing down a death sentence. If any crime qualified for death it's this one. It's not subjective...it is a formula they are to find: if you find this crime for which you've convicted her, meets this a, b c criteria, then the appropriate sentence to hand down is death. Again they'd have to step OUTSIDE those definitions to not go with death.

10. This is a completely unsympathetic defendant. No matter how her team tries to sell sympathy for her, it just seems to make matters worse. Again there is not one juror who concerns me in terms of overt sympathy for her.

Far far more cases that go to trial result in conviction than not. We had a couple of high profile ones that didn't have that result but they are unicorns in the grand scheme of things.

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing to lose by fervently throwing all of my belief and wholeheartedness in to this prosecution team's competence, fighting spirit and being on the side of RIGHT.

NO ONE wants Jodi Arias out on the street again.

Finally, this case I've said all along will be decided for guilt in the rebuttal phase. Just wait for that. I think you will be able to exhale by the end of that. if not, we'll talk again. :seeya:

Now...I bid you a goodnight!

Katie,
This helped me too. This is one reason why we find all the posts from the court observers so important. This isn't just some morbid curiosity for us. I followed the FCA trial from the day Caylee went missing all the way to the end. ( the Oj trial to me was just a freak of nature, so to speak). And FCA was not sympathetic in the least. So i was so distraught justice wasn't served. And I was a little put out with the prosecutor asking everyone to just move on.

When we watch from home and see all the news, we can put it all together. And yes she admitted she killed him and no, it wasn't self defense. I just know all they need is that one crazy juror to vote not guilty. I have never been in favor of sequestering a jury. They need to know all they can to make the right decision. I was convinced before trial that she was guilty of premeditated murder. Because who would stab someone twenty nine times ( some of those in the back!), slit their throat and shoot them? That could never be self defense! That was pure rage, from a jealous, lying psychopath.

So then, when we have someone like you or Pasa or Anita or Az lawyer or bluelady attend court and tell us what the feeling is in the courtroom, it affirms our faith that this case will turn out right. JM is absolutely awesome. The perfect prosecutor for this case!

Thanks Katie.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I'm so confused. I thought she did interview her and that was why she was part of the hearing where Juan asked her if Arias told her the pedo images were on the computer? I think I'm missing something

If she hasn't interviewed her, my worry is that the jury will think she did interview Arias and think battered scenario is relevant to her. Hopefully Juan can ask her if she did?

I do hope she goes into Jodi specifically today to point to the symptoms she had of DV. Otherwise, the whole seminar was a pick-what-you-want based on Jodi's testiphony.

Back on topic: Court watchers, Katiecoolady, I know I don't have to ask, but please take the temperature in the courtroom today if the seminar continues and compare it to what happens if the questions become specific to Jodi.

6 hours more of generalizations CAN'T happen! lease:

 

[A_News_Junkie]

I am going to ask her which juror she thinks will be the hold out. She likes to talk, as you well know.

I don't see any indication of a hung jury other than they'd like to hang ja.

Ask her what she thought of the KC case - I swear by the light of day, I have seen her somewhere on tv talking about a case before. The speech pattern is hauntingly familiar for some reason. Anyone else?

Has she been on any of the shows in this case before?

 

[Novice Seeker]

If she didn't interview JA, what's the point of her testimony? Are we going to get an endless stream of "I can't say with certainty that she was abused, but doing (or not doing) X would be consistent with someone who was" testimony?

Is the whole point - other than planting seeds in the jurors' minds - to try to get the judge to give this instruction that they have to look at JA's actions from the point of view of a battered woman when there has been zero evidence of it other than from the mouth of a known liar? Doesn't the defense need some semblance of evidence to switch the burden to the prosecution on that?

It looks like a mystery from here. Do you get some sense of what's actually going on from hanging around the courtroom?

The TH was incorrect about ALV not interviewing Jodi. When Martinez was cross examine Jodi on the stand he very clearly pointed out that Jodi had lied to this expert during her evaluations. Of course Jodi denied that she told ALV a different version than what Jodi was testifying to on the witness stand. Also, ALV testified that she had interviewed Jodi and reviewed numerous documents in preparing for this trial.

 

[My3Sons]

Good morning!

I was in court all day yesterday and on Dr. Drew with Katie DDJ last night.

I can tell you the jury pays attention to LaViolette but takes very few notes, and when she tells stories about other clients they look a bit bored...almost as if to say what does this have to do with this case?

No clue what the afternoon 10 minute recess was for other than something with the jury. The bailiff came from their holding area and went up to the judge (static noise on), then an officer came from the same place and went up to the judge. Then the judge announced the recess and all attorneys went to chambers. JA went, too, with two officers. Juan came up to talk to the family when they came out and it did not seem to upset them.

Met Beth:great: She is so, so personable and friendly in person. Chatted with her for about 15 minutes about life and the case, just like she'd known you for years. Made me love her even more! She's got some kind of cold or allergies going and was mortified that she may have been caught on camera wiping her nose on Dr. Drew! Talked to her a teeny bit about the hearing this am. Nurmi filed the protective order AFTER Beth inquired as to whether the $800,000 figure quoted includes his and Wilmott's fees for trial days. She says obviously it doesn't and Nurmi doesn't want the public to know how much money has gone straight in his pocket so far.

As far as whether ALV interviewed JA, I swear Beth said she had. When Katie DDJ and I were waiting to go on DD, we heard Christy Paul say ALV hadn't interviewed her and I said to Katie "Didn't Beth say she had?" but Katie thought Beth had said she hadn't, so who knows. I really think, since Juan asked JA on cross about "telling Ms. La Violette" that the kiddie pics were on the computer that she did interview her. Anyway, Beth said she can't testify as to Travis since he's not here to defend himself, but she can use his word in already admitted exhibits (texts, the sex tape...ugh!) to show Jodi was abused by him. Rrrriiiiggghhhtttt! Pretty clear to me, based on ALV's continuum, that Travis was abused by Jodi.

That's my thoughts...happy to answer questions if you have them:seeya:

 

[snowcat]

Good morning!

I was in court all day yesterday and on Dr. Drew with Katie DDJ last night.

I can tell you the jury pays attention to LaViolette but takes very few notes, and when she tells stories about other clients they look a bit bored...almost as if to say what does this have to do with this case?

No clue what the afternoon 10 minute recess was for other than something with the jury. The bailiff came from their holding area and went up to the judge (static noise on), then an officer came from the same place and went up to the judge. Then the judge announced the recess and all attorneys went to chambers. JA went, too, with two officers. Juan came up to talk to the family when they came out and it did not seem to upset them.

Met Beth:great: She is so, so personable and friendly in person. Chatted with her for about 15 minutes about life and the case, just like she'd known you for years. Made me love her even more! She's got some kind of cold or allergies going and was mortified that she may have been caught on camera wiping her nose on Dr. Drew! Talked to her a teeny bit about the hearing this am. Nurmi filed the protective order AFTER Beth inquired as to whether the $800,000 figure quoted includes his and Wilmott's fees for trial days. She says obviously it doesn't and Nurmi doesn't want the public to know how much money has gone straight in his pocket so far.

As far as whether ALV interviewed JA, I swear Beth said she had. When Katie DDJ and I were waiting to go on DD, we heard Christy Paul say ALV hadn't interviewed her and I said to Katie "Didn't Beth say she had?" but Katie thought Beth had said she hadn't, so who knows. I really think, since Juan asked JA on cross about "telling Ms. La Violette" that the kiddie pics were on the computer that she did interview her. Anyway, Beth said she can't testify as to Travis since he's not here to defend himself, but she can use his word in already admitted exhibits (texts, the sex tape...ugh!) to show Jodi was abused by him. Rrrriiiiggghhhtttt! Pretty clear to me, based on ALV's continuum, that Travis was abused by Jodi.

That's my thoughts...happy to answer questions if you have them:seeya:

Thank you so much for your insight Had no idea DD had a WS'er on last night, you were awesome!
The break was because Jodi became faint and needed an energy bar ...

 

[borndem]

I hope this doesn't mean that Martinez cannot question re: the pedophilia lie that JA told her. He should still be able to ask her, right? Cross exam doesn't have to stick to what is asked on direct?

He can ask anything -- this is cross, so whatever he can get past the DT & the judge. And there are always those "hypotheticals." JW has already presented her with one that -- if you can believe it -- sounded just a touch like JA/TA.

I feel sure ALV will wanna talk about women as abusers of men -- altho she might not feel quite as comfortable with that due to her lack of similar clinical experience with men, I'm thinkin' she'll still have something to say. = }