Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[mrjitty]

But in all seriousness, in every case that I've followed here on WS, it's the same pattern.

RSBM
Great post. Just to comment on this bit. It's what's led me to be so sceptical about these kinds of claims - because it's happening in every single case. Injustices are real of course, but it is a bit hard to believe in these high profile cases. It just seems to have become the norm for defence teams to go beyond requiring the prosecution to prove guilt, claims of investigative shortcomings or incompetence etc, to always claiming their innocent client is the victim of misfeasance or straight up corruption.

 

[mrjitty]

I'm just remembering that the defence implied RA was developing schizophrenia at one stage.

Allen’s defense did not dispute that Allen had made incriminating statements, but attributed them to his deteriorating physical and mental health, noting in requests to move him from the state prison, where he is being housed as he awaits trial, to a jail near Delphi, Indiana, that he had displayed symptoms of schizophrenia. Prosecutors said that they had considered “involuntary medication” to treat Allen’s symptoms, but two psychiatrists and a psychologist had allegedly deemed it unnecessary, and they also felt it wasn’t necessary to move him to another facility with a psychiatric unit.

Shocking Details Of Delphi Murders And Suspect’s Health Revealed In Documents

The newly unsealed documents provide insight into what investigators found at the crime scene as well as their interactions with Richard Allen before and after his arrest.

www.huffpost.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

@Ward Thisperer the last thread closed before I could reply to you. Thank you for the information you provided.

I absolutely agree the Court records need to be more timely and accurately maintained in this case in general. I do see one or two that could go either way to me under the stipulations of Rule 5. JMO

I believe what the SCOIN focused on mainly, and rightly so, was upholding RA's right to counsel and civil liberties and the way in which the Defense were DQ'd by Judge Gull. Even though I could argue a point or two that the D brought this on themselves, I agree with the decision that it wasn't procedurally correct.

JMO

 

[margarita25]

Coming up on another anniversary…

 

[FrostedGlass]

Who do we think was driving this SUV?
When did they come and when did they leave?

Kelsi remembers seeing a dark SUV, its rear windshield covered in decals, parked near the entrance where she dropped off the girls. She didn’t pay attention to whether any people were around, something she regrets daily.

A new path

DELPHI — Kelsi German stops, the gravel beneath her feet ceasing its crunching. She gazes at the memorial honoring her sister and her sister’s best friend, both of whom died

www.purdueexponent.org

 

[somequestions]

There are some very good arguments made about Richard Allen's movements on the Monon High Bridge Trail that day. These arguments tend to support his guilt. When did Richard Allen arrive or leave in his distinct black Ford Focus with blacked out wheels? Did Richard Allen really know about the Hoosier Harvest Store surveillance camera, but then choose to lie to the conservation officer he talked to about when he arrived hoping no one would look at the Hoosier Harvest Store surveillance tapes and question whether he was telling the truth about arriving or leaving?

If Richard Allen did not know about the Hoosier Harvest Store surveillance camera on 300 N, then why is he not spotted by that surveillance camera walking back to his car to leave the scene? Or did Richard Allen, after committing the crime walk back the exact way he came in crossing back over the Monon High Bridge and going down the entire trail all the while wet, muddy, and possibly bloody hoping no one would notice him as he tried to get back to his car using the trails instead of the road? He simply got lucky no witnesses saw him after the crime.

On Liberty German's phone video, I see bridge guy wearing a floppy eared hat, but that is my opinion. But it could be a beanie type hat that Richard Allen is known to wear. It is too hard to tell in order to make a clear identification. Nothing is clear in this case. It will be interesting to see at trial what evidence and confessions LE have against Richard Allen. But if he is innocent that means the real killer is still out there somewhere.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Who do we think was driving this SUV?
When did they come and when did they leave?

A new path

DELPHI — Kelsi German stops, the gravel beneath her feet ceasing its crunching. She gazes at the memorial honoring her sister and her sister’s best friend, both of whom died

www.purdueexponent.org

I don’t believe there was an SUV parked there. Originally, KG had stated she didn’t see any cars there.

 

[Falling Down]

Who do we think was driving this SUV?
When did they come and when did they leave?

A new path

DELPHI — Kelsi German stops, the gravel beneath her feet ceasing its crunching. She gazes at the memorial honoring her sister and her sister’s best friend, both of whom died

www.purdueexponent.org

I'd say most likely the woman who walked to the bridge and back.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

There are some very good arguments made about Richard Allen's movements on the Monon High Bridge Trail that day. These arguments tend to support his guilt. When did Richard Allen arrive or leave in his distinct black Ford Focus with blacked out wheels? Did Richard Allen really know about the Hoosier Harvest Store surveillance camera, but then choose to lie to the conservation officer he talked to about when he arrived hoping no one would look at the Hoosier Harvest Store surveillance tapes and question whether he was telling the truth about arriving or leaving?

If Richard Allen did not know about the Hoosier Harvest Store surveillance camera on 300 N, then why is he not spotted by that surveillance camera walking back to his car to leave the scene? Or did Richard Allen, after committing the crime walk back the exact way he came in crossing back over the Monon High Bridge and going down the entire trail all the while wet, muddy, and possibly bloody hoping no one would notice him as he tried to get back to his car using the trails instead of the road? He simply got lucky no witnesses saw him after the crime.

On Liberty German's phone video, I see bridge guy wearing a floppy eared hat, but that is my opinion. But it could be a beanie type hat that Richard Allen is known to wear. It is too hard to tell in order to make a clear identification. Nothing is clear in this case. It will be interesting to see at trial what evidence and confessions LE have against Richard Allen. But if he is innocent that means the real killer is still out there somewhere.

Interesting post.
To me one of the big problems in the defence case is how come he didn’t see anyone else except for the 3 juvenile girls?

Woman walker had to have seen him on the bridge IMO. There is no other place he can be.

I guess the defence case has to be that the 3 juveniles saw bridge guy and Allen had left moments before.

 

[Megnut]

Interesting post.
To me one of the big problems in the defence case is how come he didn’t see anyone else except for the 3 juvenile girls?

Woman walker had to have seen him on the bridge IMO. There is no other place he can be.

I guess the defence case has to be that the 3 juveniles saw bridge guy and Allen had left moments before.

Except RA saw them.

He would have been wiser to be hazy on whom he saw. Can't recall. Because saying he saw the girls orients him to time and place, triangulated with the witness who saw him on the platform. And her, having encountered A and L, creates enough dots on a map to create a picture. Add in both the selfie in which he doesn't appear (I think he was ahead of them at that point) and the video, and there's no room for another person to be BG. He gave one too many details and left out the glaring one. If he were innocent, he would have had to encounter A and L. "Saw them as I was leaving."

Only one person has a reason to leave that out.

JMO

 

[twall]

01/22/24
Defendant's Motion to Transfer (filed January 12, 2024) taken under advisement pending the State's response, if any, and a hearing to be set.

01/29/2024
Response to a Petition Filed
State's Response to Transfer.pdf

01/24/2024
Motion to Withdraw Appearance (Scremin and Lebrato)

02/02/2024
Order Issued
Order granting Motion to Withdraw (S&L)
Judicial Officer:Gull, Frances -SJ
Order Signed:01/29/2024
≈≈============≈==================
S&L filed the Motion to transfer and JG stated it is taken under advisement until state responds (which they did) then a hearing will be set. So why no hearing date set? Also, is the Motion still valid since S&L withdrew as counsel? Why are they still listed as RA's attorneys and still receiving notices?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I'd say most likely the woman who walked to the bridge and back.

JMO

That's what I thought, too. However, if that's the case, it throws the timeline off.

We were told what time Kelsi's car was seen leaving on the HH cam and LE has used that as the drop-off time. However, that is in conflict with the arrival time Becky, Derrick and Kelsi all stated, which would put them there before the woman walker. MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

01/22/24
Defendant's Motion to Transfer (filed January 12, 2024) taken under advisement pending the State's response, if any, and a hearing to be set.

01/29/2024
Response to a Petition Filed
State's Response to Transfer.pdf

01/24/2024
Motion to Withdraw Appearance (Scremin and Lebrato)

02/02/2024
Order Issued
Order granting Motion to Withdraw (S&L)
Judicial Officer:Gull, Frances -SJ
Order Signed:01/29/2024
≈≈============≈==================
S&L filed the Motion to transfer and JG stated it is taken under advisement until state responds (which they did) then a hearing will be set. So why no hearing date set? Also, is the Motion still valid since S&L withdrew as counsel? Why are they still listed as RA's attorneys and still receiving notices?

Regarding your good questions:
"S&L filed the Motion to transfer and JG stated it is taken under advisement until state responds (which they did) then a hearing will be set. So why no hearing date set? Also, is the Motion still valid since S&L withdrew as counsel? Why are they still listed as RA's attorneys and still receiving notices?"

First, I don't understand why the P even has a voice in this. The transfer was put in place by the sheriff and the court.
The D filed a motion to continue; so that may be why there is no hearing date set.

I have no idea about the validity of the motion at this point. S&L filed a redaction on the motion; no idea what that's about, either.

Off hand, the only reason I can think of as to why S&L are still receiving notices and are only just now withdrawing is they are slow to respond. Maybe their names will be removed this week. That was such a flurry of filings; that alone could cause a delay.

 

[mrjitty]

Except RA saw them.

He would have been wiser to be hazy on whom he saw. Can't recall. Because saying he saw the girls orients him to time and place, triangulated with the witness who saw him on the platform. And her, having encountered A and L, creates enough dots on a map to create a picture. Add in both the selfie in which he doesn't appear (I think he was ahead of them at that point) and the video, and there's no room for another person to be BG. He gave one too many details and left out the glaring one. If he were innocent, he would have had to encounter A and L. "Saw them as I was leaving."

Only one person has a reason to leave that out.

JMO

Yes - my belief is his ill advised police interview is what will sink him. He needed to preserve space to hear the witness testimony, then reverse engineer a timeline around it. e.g maybe he left the trail at a crucial time and thus missed the girls

Instead he has given an inconsistent version which is likely impossible. e.g who were the other 3 girls he met? Who else was on the trials at the earlier times who didn't see him?

Where are his phone connections to the tower for the stock ticker? Notice how the defence never claimed in the Franks that there is any digital evidence to support RA's version. Nor did the prosecution say in the AA that there is digital evidence that puts him on the trails at the key times. My opinion is this evidence does not exist at all, because his phone was switched off - a blunder that is a theme in multiple cases over the last 10-15 years

 

[mrjitty]

First, I don't understand why the P even has a voice in this. The transfer was put in place by the sheriff and the court.

RSBM - don't know the specific law here, but i guess as a general principle, Judge Gull has oversight over the detention of the defendant by the state (separation of powers), and the prosecutor is the representative of the state in all matters before the Court.

I'd tend to agree that the judge should want to hear from the agencies responsible for those decisions and actions though - as the prosecutor's office is clearly not the branch of government involved

 

[Pyrite]

Except RA saw them

RSSBM
Did he? It’s assumed he saw the same group of girls that saw Bridgeguy, but IIRC, It was an unseasonably warm day and school was out. We don’t know how many groups were out on the trail that day. The girls have a description of bridgeguy. Do RA give a description of the girls, besides the very vague , three girls Walking in a group? Is it possible he saw another group of 3 girls, not the group who saw bridge guy?

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

RSSBM
Did he? It’s assumed he saw the same group of girls that saw Bridgeguy, but IIRC, It was an unseasonably warm day and school was out. We don’t know how many groups were out on the trail that day. The girls have a description of bridgeguy. Do RA give a description of the girls, besides the very vague , three girls Walking in a group? Is it possible he saw another group of 3 girls, not the group who saw bridge guy?

MOO

Since there were actually 4 girls in that group, why did he only see 3?

 

[FrostedGlass]

RSBM - don't know the specific law here, but i guess as a general principle, Judge Gull has oversight over the detention of the defendant by the state (separation of powers), and the prosecutor is the representative of the state in all matters before the Court.

I'd tend to agree that the judge should want to hear from the agencies responsible for those decisions and actions though - as the prosecutor's office is clearly not the branch of government involved

IMO JG gives more weight to P's opinion that RA's rights or the D's claims.
The emphasis is mine.

McLeland's 42 point motion regarding the transfer. He repeatedly reminds JG that the court rejected the motion the other two times and gave multiple examples of how the D's (both sets) were untruthful. He called the jails, checked prison records, took pictures.

In all that, he claimed 3 times that the state had no opinion/objection as to where RA was housed, as long as he was kept safe. BUT in the very end, #42, he registers this complaint; IMO if he really didn't care, he could have saved some of those limited resources by just saying so.

42. That the Defense is consuming the limited resources of this office and this Court with repetitive motions that lack any factual basis.

The State's response to the defense's motion for transfer.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2024/01/States-Response-to-Defenses-Mt.pdf?ipid=promo-link-block2

 

[FrostedGlass]

This article has Scremin's motion to transfer RA out of Wabash Correctional Facility.

Richard Allen's attorney request transfer from Wabash Valley Correctional Facility

Attorneys Robert Scremin and William Lebrato filed the six page motion this week asking for Allen to be moved to a closer location, or their ability to represent Allen may be impacted.

www.wrtv.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

@Niner The hearing date is entered:

02/05/2024	Hearing Scheduling Activity Hearing scheduled for 02/12/2024 at 9:00 AM.
02/12/2024	Hearing Session: 02/12/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Comment: To be held in the Allen Superior Court 5