Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

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susiQ said:
I have a question for our verified legal members, @AugustWest @kae27 . If NM, TL, JH and BH belonged to the same “brotherhood” (not Odinism), would this be considered a conflict of interest? If this type of association is regarded as a conflict of interest, would NM and others be required to recuse themselves from RA’s case? Very curious about this.
Click to expand...
@susiQ

To dive into the specifics of conflict as regarding attorneys (which I think the only one in your question is NM?) would be pretty detailed, so I will leave a link to the applicable rules, in relevant part:

Rule 1.7 - A concurrent conflict of interest exists if: (1) the representation of one client will be directly adverse to another client; or (2) there is a significant risk that the representation of one or more clients will be materially limited by the lawyer's responsibilities to another client, a former client or a third person or by a personal interest of the lawyer.

Link:

Consistent with the rules, any attorney "shall not represent a client" if a "personal interest" creates a "significant risk" that "materially limits" their responsibilities. Lawyers are expected to police themselves for misconduct (both personally and as a group). Any conflict and personal impartiality are a judgment call by that individual attorney. If an attorney feels he/she can fulfill their responsibilities without degrading them somehow, then no problem. Attorneys are expected to monitor themselves collectively also, so any peers (bar associations) should come forward if conflict is suspected.

I'm not a local attorney so I'm not comfortable commenting on any of these attorneys and whether any conflict exists in Delphi, IN. I know none of them, and I am not a member of the Indiana Bar Association. Those who are should be (and are IMO) making sure to keep the local legal community above board.

I will say that Delphi is a very small town, making conflicts more difficult to avoid.
 
AugustWest said:
@susiQ

To dive into the specifics of conflict as regarding attorneys (which I think the only one in your question is NM?) would be pretty detailed, so I will leave a link to the applicable rules, in relevant part:

Rule 1.7 - A concurrent conflict of interest exists if: (1) the representation of one client will be directly adverse to another client; or (2) there is a significant risk that the representation of one or more clients will be materially limited by the lawyer's responsibilities to another client, a former client or a third person or by a personal interest of the lawyer.

Link:

Consistent with the rules, any attorney "shall not represent a client" if a "personal interest" creates a "significant risk" that "materially limits" their responsibilities. Lawyers are expected to police themselves for misconduct (both personally and as a group). Any conflict and personal impartiality are a judgment call by that individual attorney. If an attorney feels he/she can fulfill their responsibilities without degrading them somehow, then no problem. Attorneys are expected to monitor themselves collectively also, so any peers (bar associations) should come forward if conflict is suspected.

I'm not a local attorney so I'm not comfortable commenting on any of these attorneys and whether any conflict exists in Delphi, IN. I know none of them, and I am not a member of the Indiana Bar Association. Those who are should be (and are IMO) making sure to keep the local legal community above board.

I will say that Delphi is a very small town, making conflicts more difficult to avoid.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for your response and the links you provided. Very much appreciated!
The part that appears to speak to my concern is Rule 1.7 - 2) “or by a personal interest of the lawyer.” JMO
 
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FrostedGlass said:
I'm wondering exactly who she is and exactly what her job is.
I heard she was arguing against the D; why wasn't Nick doing his job? He was the one who brought the charges.
Where was Luttrull?
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I was wondering if she’s related to Judge Ben, who recused. And other cases she may have worked on. Maybe it doesn’t matter. Just curious.
 
susiQ said:
Thank you very much for your response and the links you provided. Very much appreciated!
The part that appears to speak to my concern is Rule 1.7 - 2) “or by a personal interest of the lawyer.” JMO
Click to expand...
The people you listed are not on trial so I don’t know how there could be possible conflict.
 
AugustWest said:
@susiQ

To dive into the specifics of conflict as regarding attorneys (which I think the only one in your question is NM?) would be pretty detailed, so I will leave a link to the applicable rules, in relevant part:

Rule 1.7 - A concurrent conflict of interest exists if: (1) the representation of one client will be directly adverse to another client; or (2) there is a significant risk that the representation of one or more clients will be materially limited by the lawyer's responsibilities to another client, a former client or a third person or by a personal interest of the lawyer.

Link:

Consistent with the rules, any attorney "shall not represent a client" if a "personal interest" creates a "significant risk" that "materially limits" their responsibilities. Lawyers are expected to police themselves for misconduct (both personally and as a group). Any conflict and personal impartiality are a judgment call by that individual attorney. If an attorney feels he/she can fulfill their responsibilities without degrading them somehow, then no problem. Attorneys are expected to monitor themselves collectively also, so any peers (bar associations) should come forward if conflict is suspected.

I'm not a local attorney so I'm not comfortable commenting on any of these attorneys and whether any conflict exists in Delphi, IN. I know none of them, and I am not a member of the Indiana Bar Association. Those who are should be (and are IMO) making sure to keep the local legal community above board.

I will say that Delphi is a very small town, making conflicts more difficult to avoid.
Click to expand...
Oh, brother. If there is a conflict of interest, and there well could be not only in Delphi but Logansport, too. If the D files a motion about this possible issue, and that could be a long shot, delay delay delay. But a necessary one?
AugustWest said:
@steeltowngirl

Case too big for little Delphi?
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The case is being handled by the Carroll County District Attorney but I understand your meaning. NMc's learning on the job like so many others do. JG augmented his staff and the city council upped his salary. Yes, Delphi Sheriff's Dept was unprepared for the magnitude of the devastating murders of Abby and Libby. They'd not ever seen anything like their ruthless murders. We could read the shock and awe on LE's faces at the first announcement.
susiQ said:
Thank you very much for your response and the links you provided. Very much appreciated!
The part that appears to speak to my concern is Rule 1.7 - 2) “or by a personal interest of the lawyer.” JMO
Click to expand...
BBM YEP MOO
 
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed due to hypothetical / casting aspersions at non POI>
Back when they arrested RA, I recall asking on here if the trial could be moved out of state, due to the notoriety and likely connections in a small town. I think the responses were no way, as he is entitled to a jury of his peers, or something like that. I kind of wish the bridge and trail had been on federal land, and this would be tried in federal court, with federal prosecutors.

Scratch that.
Back to my real wish: that Libby and Abby would have drop-kicked BG off of the bridge.
 
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steeltowngirl said:
Enter the six degrees of separation. Back when they arrested RA, I recall asking on here if the trial could be moved out of state, due to the notoriety and likely connections in a small town. I think the responses were no way, as he is entitled to a jury of his peers, or something like that. I kind of wish the bridge and trail had been on federal land, and this would be tried in federal court, with federal prosecutors.

Scratch that.
Back to my real wish: that Libby and Abby would have drop-kicked BG off of the bridge.
Click to expand...
I wondered after I read this whether he'd be able to appeal on the grounds of the denied change of venue. Seeing this as the rationale for denial/source:

"Gull said it makes sense to keep the trial in Carroll County, where witnesses and families live, saying the expense to move the proceedings would be 'extraordinary.'

Allen's attorneys had requested a change of venue for the high-profile trial. Gull asked the defense and prosecution to agree within a week on a county where they can source a jury."

I'm seeing that these motions for change of venue are rarely granted. It looks like she followed IN criminal procedure to the letter:
IC 35-36-6-11
Murder or Class A felony proceedings; selection of jury; verdict and judgment
Sec. 11. (a) In any criminal proceeding wherein the defendant is charged with murder or a Class A felony to be tried before a jury in which a motion for a change of venue from the county is filed, the court may recognize but decline to grant the motion, and order that the jury be drawn from the residents of a county other than the county in which the court is located.
(b) Pursuant to an order under this section, the court may convene in any county in the state for purposes of jury selection. The venire may be drawn by the jury administrator of a court in the jurors' home county, or may be drawn by the court itself by random selection.
(c) After a jury is selected, the trial shall be held in the county of the court's location...
 
I’m glad they brought in another prosecutor. I hope SD takes the time to read ALL of the discovery in this case or everything that wasn’t recorded over or somehow “lost.” I have this feeling that NM never did. Why? Because anything thinking person that would have read all of it would know there were others that should have been investigated much more thoroughly and weren’t. Hence, TC’s letter to NM. Why did an investigator feel the need to write to NM to make sure he had read his investigative report? Because his actions appeared to indicate that he had not read it and this concerned TC. After hearing what TC had to say at the hearing this week, it’s no wonder. They just dropped this line of investigation and that was years before they fell upon RA. They had plenty of time to thoroughly investigate these other POIs and didn’t. Click, Ferency and Murphy had laid the groundwork.

I can’t wait to see those responsible for shutting down the investigation into the Rushville characters explain themselves on the stand. JMHO
 
steeltowngirl said:
I was wondering if she’s related to Judge Ben, who recused. And other cases she may have worked on. Maybe it doesn’t matter. Just curious.
Click to expand...
Re: other cases she may have worked on. According to Wieneke:

bbm

“Indiana is a small world. The female attorney that represented the State today in the #RichardAllen case was not with the Attorney General's office, as Bob mentioned on his live show. She is Stacy Diener. A liked and respected attorney.

But you know this case always has fun twists.

Before joining Nick's office, Diener worked for the attorney who represented...Kegan Kline.

Am I the only one who remembers the game, Six Degrees from Kevin Bacon? This case is that.”

<modsnip: No link to screenshot>
 
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DeDee said:
Oh, brother. If there is a conflict of interest, and there well could be not only in Delphi but Logansport, too. If the D files a motion about this possible issue, and that could be a long shot, delay delay delay. But a necessary one?

The case is being handled by the Carroll County District Attorney but I understand your meaning. NMc's learning on the job like so many others do. JG augmented his staff and the city council upped his salary. Yes, Delphi Sheriff's Dept was unprepared for the magnitude of the devastating murders of Abby and Libby. They'd not ever seen anything like their ruthless murders. We could read the shock and awe on LE's faces at the first announcement.

BBM YEP MOO
Click to expand...
If small town investigators see a brutal crime scene and they show emotion/shock at the press conference it's because they're from a small town? I've seen big city investigators and prosecutors just as upset and more so at press conferences, especially when the crime involved children.
 
snooptroop88 said:
I wondered after I read this whether he'd be able to appeal on the grounds of the denied change of venue. Seeing this as the rationale for denial/source:

"Gull said it makes sense to keep the trial in Carroll County, where witnesses and families live, saying the expense to move the proceedings would be 'extraordinary.'

Allen's attorneys had requested a change of venue for the high-profile trial. Gull asked the defense and prosecution to agree within a week on a county where they can source a jury."

I'm seeing that these motions for change of venue are rarely granted. It looks like she followed IN criminal procedure to the letter:
IC 35-36-6-11
Murder or Class A felony proceedings; selection of jury; verdict and judgment
Sec. 11. (a) In any criminal proceeding wherein the defendant is charged with murder or a Class A felony to be tried before a jury in which a motion for a change of venue from the county is filed, the court may recognize but decline to grant the motion, and order that the jury be drawn from the residents of a county other than the county in which the court is located.
(b) Pursuant to an order under this section, the court may convene in any county in the state for purposes of jury selection. The venire may be drawn by the jury administrator of a court in the jurors' home county, or may be drawn by the court itself by random selection.
(c) After a jury is selected, the trial shall be held in the county of the court's location...
Click to expand...
The jury will be selected from another county, not Carroll Country the questionaries for potential jury selection has already been mailed out according to the Monday hearing. They will be transported to and from. I don't know if they will sequestered or not, I don't know if that has been decided.

MOO
 
susiQ said:
I’m glad they brought in another prosecutor. I hope SD takes the time to read ALL of the discovery in this case or everything that wasn’t recorded over or somehow “lost.” I have this feeling that NM never did. Why? Because anything thinking person that would have read all of it would know there were others that should have been investigated much more thoroughly and weren’t. Hence, TC’s letter to NM. Why did an investigator feel the need to write to NM to make sure he had read his investigative report? Because his actions appeared to indicate that he had not read it and this concerned TC. After hearing what TC had to say at the hearing this week, it’s no wonder. They just dropped this line of investigation and that was years before they fell upon RA. They had plenty of time to thoroughly investigate these other POIs and didn’t. Click, Ferency and Murphy had laid the groundwork.

I can’t wait to see those responsible for shutting down the investigation into the Rushville characters explain themselves on the stand. JMHO
Click to expand...
Honestly, I can't wait either. The State has never been required to disclose to the public why ANY POI was cleared. I believe Click, Ferency and Murphy were upset over being let go from the case, they have done everything in their power to reinsert themselves. I'm sure they (Click especially) wanted to be part of the winning team who arrested RA and solved the case, not the one at home retired and not receiving any attention or the so called 'glory and admiration'. Maybe they're working on a book about the case to pass the time away? IDK

SD has a solid reputation as an experienced prosecutor, so those that feel NMcL is incompetent should feel relieved.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

JMO
 
zh0r4 said:
Re: other cases she may have worked on. According to Wieneke:

bbm

“Indiana is a small world. The female attorney that represented the State today in the #RichardAllen case was not with the Attorney General's office, as Bob mentioned on his live show. She is Stacy Diener. A liked and respected attorney.

But you know this case always has fun twists.

Before joining Nick's office, Diener worked for the attorney who represented...Kegan Kline.

Am I the only one who remembers the game, Six Degrees from Kevin Bacon? This case is that.”

<modsnip: No link to screenshot>
Click to expand...
Why don't these Defense 'experts' zip it and let the trial unfold in a Court of Law instead of Twitter/X, YT or Podcasts? Ah yes, the likes and views = $$$$$

Not one person involved from the Prosecution side has made the social media rounds. Unprofessionals craving the limelight vs Professionalism.

MOO
 
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susiQ said:
I’m glad they brought in another prosecutor. I hope SD takes the time to read ALL of the discovery in this case or everything that wasn’t recorded over or somehow “lost.” I have this feeling that NM never did. Why? Because anything thinking person that would have read all of it would know there were others that should have been investigated much more thoroughly and weren’t. Hence, TC’s letter to NM. Why did an investigator feel the need to write to NM to make sure he had read his investigative report? Because his actions appeared to indicate that he had not read it and this concerned TC. After hearing what TC had to say at the hearing this week, it’s no wonder. They just dropped this line of investigation and that was years before they fell upon RA. They had plenty of time to thoroughly investigate these other POIs and didn’t. Click, Ferency and Murphy had laid the groundwork.

I can’t wait to see those responsible for shutting down the investigation into the Rushville characters explain themselves on the stand. JMHO
Click to expand...
How does any of this negate potential evidence they do have on Richard Allen? How does this exonerate him?

RA is the defendant scheduled for trial. Prosecution will provide evidence of his involvement in the murders. They aren’t there to clear other suspects that were investigated - perhaps never cleared, but also not charged.
 
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