Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[zh0r4]

Does that mean one girl was found undressed? I don't recall what the Frank's memo had to say, whether accurate or not, about that.

Is it consistent with clothes in the creek? One girl's clothes fell into the water....

I hate that day.

Here are the specific pages that describe the CS. Libby was undressed, Abby had been undressed and redressed in Libby’s clothes.

p. 28-32

Source:
https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

 

[FrostedGlass]

*takes a deep, calming breath*

HOW did they lose such important data?
HOW is the audio missing from anything?
WHY was anything uncatalogued?
WHY would you not ask the FBI for technological assistance in a case like this? Devastating info re: Justice for the victims.

This was 2017, not 1988. My mind is blown.

Maybe tomorrow I'll do more digging and get the answers to your questions.
The short version goes something like this:
Stuff happens and it doesn't matter anyway because we have the memos from the investigators.

 

[layer]

Yup, sorry. I think I was interrupted writing that post. Sentence was confusing. Hope I fixed it up there with the rewrite.

Yeah, my eyes bugged out when I read that. Then they bugged back out when I learned they were moved postmortem.

 

[katydid23]

This is another reason both the D and P need a forensic pathologist. Why undress them at all if there was no SA? Page 28-32 describes the CS.

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

Hypothetically, sometimes the sexual satisfaction itself comes from things besides an actual s. assault ----like the act of stabbing, or the fearful reactions it entails from the victims, or the thrill of the chase and abduction, or the mementos collected, etc.

 

[layer]

Stuff happens and it doesn't matter anyway because we have the memos from the investigators.

Sure they do.
I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt but their history of filing, retaining, locating and ultimately producing investigative material has been less than spectacular so far.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Yeahhhhh, the first reports from responding LE, the FBI, and the State Prosecutor at the time informed the public (via press interviews) that upon studying the scene the consensus was that the injuries sustained and crime scene appeared to be deliberate and after death, staged. Ask Barb McDonald, who interviewed all of them.

Is it Barb McDonald that said first reports from responding LE informed the public in press interviews? I know we learned it from the RL search warrant, but I learned of that in 2022. I don’t recall anything earlier than that.

FBI agent: Bodies 'moved and staged' in Delphi murders, suspect took clothing

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Investigators believe the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were “moved and staged” at the Delphi murder scene, according to court documents obtained by I-Team 8. READ: See the court documents The revelation is included in a nine-page request for a search warrant...

www.wishtv.com

 

[Cyber sleuth]

You may be right. If he knew he distributed his genetic material all over the crime scene maybe he knew that would be about the only way to sanitize it. Since there was no fire, maybe they gathered some of that DNA.
OTOH
The staging, specifically, would suggest to me that the killer was proud of his work and wanted it admired. That could argue against him wanting to destroy it.
Gah

It has been my theory that RA’s intention was to destroy the crime scene by fire. It would have had police and emergency personnel going one way ( East on 300) while he could sneak past staying south and then crossing 300 near his car and out of notice.
I think family members looking for the girls got too close to the crime scene and escape plan and he had to abandon that plan.
It probably would have spread quickly and who even knows where the nearest fire hydrant is.

 

[Ravenmoon]

This is another reason both the D and P need a forensic pathologist. Why undress them at all if there was no SA? Page 28-32 describes the CS.

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

Why undress them?

For gratification.

Maybe for photos?
Maybe to instruct them on exactly what he wanted them to do so that his fantasy would play out.

This was, no doubt, a sexually motivated crime IMO.

 

[arielilane]

Posting for those who are unaware of this news:

How unusual is it for Richard Allen's attorneys to request public donations to pay for expert fees?

STORY: https://21alivenews.com/2024/03/27/legal-expert-weighs-crowdfunding-delphi-murders-case/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773079056340197688

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — A new attorney has joined the defense team in the Delphi murders case.
A filing submitted Wednesday morning says defense attorney Jennifer Auger will join the team of attorneys for Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen in a limited capacity.

More at link...

New attorney joins defense team in Delphi murders case

A filing submitted Wednesday morning says defense attorney Jennifer Auger will join the team of attorneys for Richard Allen.

www.wishtv.com

Updated: Mar 27, 2024 / 10:17 AM EST

 

[Emma Peel]

Also it appears Auger will assist with satisfying the "Tuohy" process which is required to order up the depositions of certain FBI Agents.

I noticed this as well, that's correct takeaway for the Auger announcement; so ... ruminate on this:

Auger's limited appearance focus = a) digital forensics and b) the FBI

dear fbi, as you were saying, what shall we make of this rising water of "lost" interviews?

(guessing: Auger to depose FBI; which gets tricky; there's special rules etc..
Her appearance is limited likely b/c her contributions are limited to FBI stuff.)


JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

Ausbrook (in the flesh) comments for this reporting snip:

 

[susiQ]

Maybe tomorrow I'll do more digging and get the answers to your questions.
The short version goes something like this:
Stuff happens and it doesn't matter anyway because we have the memos from the investigators.

Unfortunately, one of the investigators appears to have a very faulty memory with regard to what Professor Turco actually told him. So very different, like day and night different. And now I’m expected to believe memos are an accurate account of a lengthy interview? Not a chance! JMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Unfortunately, one of the investigators appears to have a very faulty memory with regard to what Professor Turco actually told him. So very different, like day and night different. And now I’m expected to believe memos are an accurate account of a lengthy interview? Not a chance! JMO

I wouldn’t consider it faulty at all. I would consider defense’s use of cherry picking quotes to be problematic.
Out of that whole Turco report ( possibly spanning paragraphs if not pages) they could only find 2 partial sentence quotes that would align with their argument?

 

[Emma Peel]

Case status interviews 3 Years Ago: FBI Boss. Delphi Special Prosecutor.
Earliest Days: Leazenby

FIRST 3 YEARS lookback: Interview 3 Years Ago
FBI (Jay Abbott, retired special agent in charge of the FBI's Indianapolis division) interview focused on FBI work on Delphi.

See 4:45min mark forward if you are in a hurry but the whole thing is instructive.


3 YEARS AGO: Former Delphi Special Prosecutor, Robert Ives ... Interview February 2021.

VERY EARLY DAYS: Tobe Leazenby ... Interview April 25 2017.
(btw, early days ... this interview (by press) was NOT erased )

 

[Boxer]

*takes a deep, calming breath*

HOW did they lose such important data?
HOW is the audio missing from anything?
WHY was anything uncatalogued?
WHY would you not ask the FBI for technological assistance in a case like this? Devastating info re: Justice for the victims.

This was 2017, not 1988. My mind is blown.

They didnt secure the discs after the interviews.
Left them in a machine capable of overwriting them.

 

[susiQ]

They didnt secure the discs after the interviews.
Left them in a machine capable of overwriting them.

Really quite alarming when you think about it. An investigation into the brutal murders of two young girls and this is the best they can do? I hope their superiors sent them back to “detective school” to brush up on procedure. JMHO

 

[Emma Peel]

RA's Appellate Atty Cara Weineke today - X thread addressing junk science & experts.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772917591947760017

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772969852254257663

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772920524911288819

https://x.com/Wienekelo/status/1772956823378669945?s=20

Wieneke Law Office, LLC
@Wienekelo

First, I am not tampering with any jury pool. I am explaining what both the National Academy of Sciences and the PCAST report say about toolmark evidence. These analyses are junk in all cases. Period.
— Wieneke Law Office, LLC (@Wienekelo) March 27, 2024

 

[Emma Peel]

2nd half of the fox 59 reporting on the D's need for crowdfunding

 

[katydid23]

*takes a deep, calming breath*

HOW did they lose such important data?
HOW is the audio missing from anything?
WHY was anything uncatalogued?
WHY would you not ask the FBI for technological assistance in a case like this? Devastating info re: Justice for the victims.

This was 2017, not 1988. My mind is blown.

Rozzi and Baldwin alleged in their latest motion that documents exist summarizing these two interviews which are paramount to the defense team’s ritualistic killing theory. But these interviews only exist in summary documents, not raw recordings or direct transcriptions of what these two individuals said.

Rozzi and Baldwin state that while attempting to track down the recordings, the pair discovered that the interviews were recorded over due to a “DVR program error” and therefore deleted.

“The destruction of material interviews of key suspects, early in the investigation, demonstrates negligence, if not intentional conduct on the part of the State,” the attorneys wrote.

The attorneys claim these interviews were a key part of their defense, with an important part of their defense strategy being questioning the credibility and accuracy of these two suspects’ statements — two suspects whom the defense team paints as being behind the Delphi murders.

Delphi defense team claims interviews with ‘key suspects’ were deleted; call on murder charges to be thrown out

ALLEN COUNTY, Ind. — The Delphi suspect’s defense team is calling for the murder charges leveled against their client, Richard Allen, to be thrown out after claiming that interview recordings…

fox59.com

“The destruction of material interviews of key suspects, early in the investigation, demonstrates negligence, if not intentional conduct on the part of the State,” the attorneys wrote.

How and why do they suppose the state 'intentionally' erased all of those interviews? Their client hadn't even been discovered much less arrested at that time.

 

[snooptroop88]

(RSBMFF) “The destruction of material interviews of key suspects, early in the investigation, demonstrates negligence, if not intentional conduct on the part of the State,” the attorneys wrote.


How and why do they suppose the state 'intentionally' erased all of those interviews? Their client hadn't even been discovered much less arrested at that time.

Agreed, and agreed would not think this was intentional, but can they prove the timing of the erasure? If so, right, no way it was cooked up against RA, MOO. Otherwise, that could become an issue, too. Looks like it was discovered in 2017, so agreed that should be a non-issue/NewsNation: "Though Mullin discovered this loss of footage in 2017, according to the defense, they were notified about it only a couple of weeks ago." That 2017 is probably documented somewhere.

Either way, though, this is such a gift to the D that crowdsourcing will never be able to compare. I'm surprised they didn't note this prominently in their "parity" memo because if all they have is summary notes, they may have to revisit some of the people interviewed, I would think. I've heard different accounts of what's going to be available to them. I've heard summary notes, but I've also heard (alarmingly) there may be no complete master list of all those interviewed. Seeing this, NewsNation: "According to Mullin, there was also no written log of interviewers or interviewees." That is a possible catastrophe for the P, MOO. It would be better if they taped over it purposely, viewing it as "non-evidence," IMO. Still bad, but probably better than destroying interviews that might not have held potential evidentiary value. The P itself is saying others involved. Who's to say they didn't tape over an interview of one of the "others"? (I also believe others were involved.) All MOO.