Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #180

[girlhasnoname]

@girlhasnoname I'm not smarter than anyone here, so don't say that! I don't want the upper hand. All those questions were rhetorical in nature, or kinda there to make everyone think of how they feel about them. The Constitution is for us all, and we all have our own takes on the rights it gives us, so I just felt like highlighting how a Court has to worry about these competing rights our Constitution grants us. There are no right answers.

No worries, I enjoy hearing all perspectives.

 

[TTF14]

Is a person's right to counsel of their choosing not as sacrosanct as their right to a vigorous defense in your mind? A person has every right to defend themselves in this country, even though it is foolish to do so. That would make such a defense incompetent, right? Does the right not flow from the person, but rather from the government? Shouldn't we have self autonomy in those decisions?

Only if you're wealthy! If you're not, you're at the mercy of whoever "THEY" think will adequately represent you. Only wealthy people can make smart decisions for themselves.

(SARCASM) (MOO)

 

[AugustWest]

Only if you're wealthy! If you're not, you're at the mercy of whoever "THEY" think will adequately represent you. Only wealthy people can make smart decisions for themselves.

(SARCASM) (MOO)

LOL poor as dirt. I pay my secretaries and legal assistant well; they are the brains behind my operation. I'm just a dumb Okie with a passion for legal issues.

 

[Emma Peel]

Emails reveal details in Delphi murders evidence leak

Couple of things I need clarity on today. When people feel JG didn't properly remove the defense team through a hearing.... Is that in reference to the back and forth emails starting 10/6 when they notified the state and judge about the leak?

I see the court asked them a series of questions to be sure this was being properly investigated. To which I can only assume they did not reply since I don't see that in the filing.
View attachment 496087
The next email comes from prosecutor on the 12th informing them of the suicide.

View attachment 496089

The Judge replies telling them she will call a hearing and to cease work on the case until then. Is this the "improper removal"? I absolutely think they will face major penalties once this trial is over. What was she supposed to do once someone died behind these leaks. I'm just playing catch up on things I haven't read in full trying to understand why some feel she isn't playing fair. Seems fair to me.


View attachment 496090

SCOIN responded to this. You'll find your answers in the SCOIN decision.

State ex rel. Allen v. Carroll Circuit Court

 

[susiQ]

Only if you're wealthy! If you're not, you're at the mercy of whoever "THEY" think will adequately represent you. Only wealthy people can make smart decisions for themselves.

(SARCASM) (MOO)

MOO but RA was certainly blessed with getting two attorneys that really care and are doing their best to see he gets a fair trial. Actually, he was double blessed as I honestly think Scremin and Lebrato would have done the same. What I fear is that he still won’t get a fair trial because of other factors. For one, I don’t believe it’s fair that JG denied expenses for expert witnesses that the P has access to without grovelling at her feet. It appears even grovelling doesn’t help if you’re the D. I have to wonder if she took the time to read the FM. And, even if the D misunderstood certain things, one cannot ignore everything in that memo. Something stinks in Delphi and it stinks bad. IMO

 

[Willow Knight]

The Prosecutor, in court before a judge, said quite awhile ago that they thought others were involved. This is not a secret from something ISP Carter said years ago. That doesn't mean RA shouldn't be on trial or that he didn't kill the girls. It means others were possibly aware beforehand and/or possibly aided in some way. I have a good guess about one such person. He was sitting in Wabash serving C S A M sentence until RA was moved into Wabash...then the C S A M-er was shipped out real quick A mighty interesting coincidence. AJMO

The day LE was searching RA's home, especially the burn pit, is there any links where LE was also searching another burn pit? Wonder if RA was the only burn pit searched, that would be very interesting.

 

[Salah11]

MOO but RA was certainly blessed with getting two attorneys that really care and are doing their best to see he gets a fair trial. Actually, he was double blessed as I honestly think Scremin and Lebrato would have done the same. What I fear is that he still won’t get a fair trial because of other factors. For one, I don’t believe it’s fair that JG denied expenses for expert witnesses that the P has access to without grovelling at her feet. It appears even grovelling doesn’t help if you’re the D. I have to wonder if she took the time to read the FM. And, even if the D misunderstood certain things, one cannot ignore everything in that memo. Something stinks in Delphi and it stinks bad. IMO

They don’t care about him and he is simply a means to an end. They clearly are not ready for trial and we will no doubt see more delaying tactics in the next few weeks as they try to avoid the inevitable.

They have done him a massive disservice by playing games with the judge which have backfired as we edge ever closer to a trial that they are not ready for.

mooooooooooo

 

[TTF14]

MOO but RA was certainly blessed with getting two attorneys that really care and are doing their best to see he gets a fair trial. Actually, he was double blessed as I honestly think Scremin and Lebrato would have done the same. What I fear is that he still won’t get a fair trial because of other factors. For one, I don’t believe it’s fair that JG denied expenses for expert witnesses that the P has access to without grovelling at her feet. It appears even grovelling doesn’t help if you’re the D. I have to wonder if she took the time to read the FM. And, even if the D misunderstood certain things, one cannot ignore everything in that memo. Something stinks in Delphi and it stinks bad. IMO

I agree 100%. And a personal note....I regret it took me this long (without divulging my actual age) to really "get it" in terms of the struggle disadvantaged defendants have in getting an adequate defense. My eyes have been opened to how people REALLY feel....that poor defendants are not entitled to a good defense. They aren't entitled to experts or anything that may help exonerate them. Simply because they are defendants and poor. This viewpoint is implied over and over even right here in this discussion. This isn't the place to bring race into it, obviously, but I can't help but think about it in a much broader perspective.

 

[Salah11]

I agree 100%. And a personal note....I regret it took me this long (without divulging my actual age) to really "get it" in terms of the struggle disadvantaged defendants have in getting an adequate defense. My eyes have been opened to how people REALLY feel....that poor defendants are not entitled to a good defense. They aren't entitled to experts or anything that may help exonerate them. Simply because they are defendants and poor. This viewpoint is implied over and over even right here in this discussion. This isn't the place to bring race into it, obviously, but I can't help but think about it in a much broader perspective.

This is the first I have heard of RA being poor?

They owned their own home and I believe both him and his wife worked full time. They certainly seemed quite comfortable. What is considered Poor in the U.S?

 

[TTF14]

This is the first I have heard of RA being poor?

They owned their own home and I believe both him and his wife worked full time. They certainly seemed quite comfortable. What is considered Poor in the U.S?

I didn't say he is poor. But, this case, with RA not being able to afford his own defense, has clued me into how people really feel about defendants who ARE poor and can't afford their own defense. What I infer from reading posts here on WS and elsewhere is that many, many people feel that simply by being on the other side of the table makes them deserving of nothing, regardless of their guilt or innocence.

Whether RA is guilty or innocent, he deserves a qualified defense just like anybody else who can afford to pay a defense attorney. I see that the majority of people think otherwise.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I agree 100%. And a personal note....I regret it took me this long (without divulging my actual age) to really "get it" in terms of the struggle disadvantaged defendants have in getting an adequate defense. My eyes have been opened to how people REALLY feel....that poor defendants are not entitled to a good defense. They aren't entitled to experts or anything that may help exonerate them. Simply because they are defendants and poor. This viewpoint is implied over and over even right here in this discussion. This isn't the place to bring race into it, obviously, but I can't help but think about it in a much broader perspective.

This is not true.
I would be willing to bet that most people cannot afford high powered attorneys once incarcerated.
I have not seen a single person that has stated that poor people don't deserve adequate representation.
Delphi is in a small community that is not considered wealthy.
They have a finite amount of money to offer both the prosecutor and the defense. They can't produce funds that simply don't exist.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

This is not true.
I would be willing to bet that most people cannot afford high powered attorneys once incarcerated.
I have not seen a single person that has stated that poor people don't deserve adequate representation.
Delphi is in a small community that is not considered wealthy.
They have a finite amount of money to offer both the prosecutor and the defense. They can't produce funds that simply don't exist.

JMO

That's a good point, so why are so many people so angry about raising money for a defense?

 

[Ravenmoon]

I didn't say he is poor. But, this case, with RA not being able to afford his own defense, has clued me into how people really feel about defendants who ARE poor and can't afford their own defense. What I infer from reading posts here on WS and elsewhere is that many, many people feel that simply by being on the other side of the table makes them deserving of nothing, regardless of their guilt or innocence.

Whether RA is guilty or innocent, he deserves a qualified defense just like anybody else who can afford to pay a defense attorney. I see that the majority of people think otherwise.

I personally have had people VERY close to me on both sides of the table.

I would never say that either side should be short changed.

Don't assume that because people have opinions on RA'S guilt or innocence that they don't want a fair trial.

 

[Ravenmoon]

That's a good point, so why are so many people so angry about raising money for a defense?

Because of the hashtag use.
It is NOT okay to use the victims names to collect funds for the person accused of killing them.

That's it.

 

[Salah11]

That's a good point, so why are so many people so angry about raising money for a defense?

Because they have used the victims hashtag to help raise funds for the man stood accused of killing them. It’s absolutely vile and no justification can ever make that right.

 

[Ravenmoon]

That's a good point, so why are so many people so angry about raising money for a defense?

I think most people were really caught off guard by the fund raising.
Personally, I don't care if they raise a million dollars for their experts.
I really don't.
I just can't wrap my head around using the families hashtag to do it.
That is a different level of gross.

 

[Salah11]

I think most people were really caught off guard by the fund raising.
Personally, I don't care if they raise a million dollars for their experts.
I really don't.
I just can't wrap my head around using the families hashtag to do it.
That is a different level of gross.

I am in your boat - Just don’t take another thing from the victims families yet again as they have already suffered enough and let’s not forget out of which office those photos leaked from which was another gut wrenching punch for the families.

 

[mrjitty]

I just can't wrap my head around using the families hashtag to do it.
That is a different level of gross.

RSBM. Exactly.

It is NOT okay to use the victims names to collect funds for the person accused of killing them.

Co-signed.

 

[vinayd]

It's just weird to me rather they used the hashtag or not. I'm not very political and have a very common sense style of thinking. Maybe to a fault. People on trial have rights and I'm glad checks and balances are in place. I don't think they deserve top of the line lawyers who are trying to dismiss charges or get them off. So since I believe RA is guilty I am therefore disgusted by his team and the "games" I perceive. May can't come quick enough right?! I truly enjoy how we have kept these threads going!

 

[Salah11]

It's just weird to me rather they used the hashtag or not. I'm not very political and have a very common sense style of thinking. Maybe to a fault. People on trial have rights and I'm glad checks and balances are in place. I don't think they deserve top of the line lawyers who are trying to dismiss charges or get them off. So since I believe RA is guilty I am therefore disgusted by his team and the "games" I perceive. May can't come quick enough right?! I truly enjoy how we have kept these threads going!

Yes I hope we get the go ahead for May but I just get a feeling they will delay matters yet again because of the defence pulling more stunts.

Moo