Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

[girlhasnoname]

MOO Jail-Based Competency Restoration should have been initiated by his attorneys when attempted to eat the indictment papers.

R&B were just too busy to make the long, inconvenient drive to Westville. I'm still waiting on the official number of times that they actually visited him in person at Westville. I'm still betting less than on one hand.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

He was put in prison because he murdered two girls. He is still in person because his lawyers were incapable of running to a schedule they wanted for a trial and have delayed justice.

So they are completely to blame if the worse happens.

Moo

I agree with everything except your last sentence. R&B may have contributed by using RA as their golden goose to fame and $$$, but ultimately, if true, RA made the decision on this own.

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

RA is to blame, he's being detained as a Defendant with double murder charges, and if this story is true, HE'S the one who made the choice. Whether he be incarcerated in jail or IDOC, if RA wants to off himself he will find an opportunity. Happens all the time in jails and prisons around the country.

JMO

Yes, he made the choice.

RA admitted to killing the girls during a prison phone call to his wife...
But, this wasn’t the only time he made incriminating statements. He also made further confessions to guards and inmates during his stay at Westville Correction Facility.
MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

"...but I do think they have something." Who's "they"?

RA's attys. We were discussing his alibi or lack of it. I said I do think they have something.
I think his attys know where he was during part of that time.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I wanted to take some time to think before responding.

I guess where I am a bit lost on the second motion to dismiss is it just doesn't feel like a legal argument to me. The point of departure is the following factual findings by the Judge following the first motion to dismiss.



Contrary to popular claims about the Judge never giving the defence a hearing, she in fact gave the defence quite wide scope to show that BH/PW were suspects at the time of their interviews - which the defence failed to discharge. Now obviously it would be a heavy lift if LE really did destroy evidence, but even so ... surely there has to be some evidence as a departure point for 3rd party involvement ... rather than an alibi which in fact rules the guy out as a suspect?

Ref para 83



It feels to me pretty clear that the defence have no evidence liking BH to the crime, while there is an alibi which positively rules him out. So now the pleading is the incriminating evidence must be in the evidence that law enforcement destroyed.

To me this motion to dismiss feels like a retooling of the Franks I. But now the allegation is not just that the Odinists did it, but for some reason law enforcement agencies destroyed all the evidence.

That feels a remarkable allegation?

MOO

Thanks for the reply.
I can't see what you refer to in "factual findings." The article is behind a solid paywall.

Judge Gull misspoke when she said this:
04/02/2024 Order (in mycase)
As neither Holder nor Westfall were suspects at the time the interviews were conducted, the defendant has failed to show that the lost interview of Holder was material and that the lack of a recorded interview of Westfall was material.

Dismiss.pdf.pdf

drive.google.com

19.On February 17, 2017, documents specifically sought by the defense (Doug
Carter’s emails with the FBI) provided evidence that:
a. Brad Holder was a suspect within days of the murder and certainly
on February 17, 2017 when Holder interviewed at the Delphi police
station and turned over his phone to law enforcement.
b. State Police Superintendent Doug Carter was aware that Brad
Holder was a suspect.
c. Even the top FBI agent in Indianapolis, Jay Abbott, was aware that
Brad Holder was a suspect on February 17, 2017.
d. Logan Holder was not mentioned as a suspect in these emails.

 

[mrjitty]

Thanks for the reply.
I can't see what you refer to in "factual findings." The article is behind a solid paywall.

The para I quoted (and that you repost below) are findings by the Judge (IMO)

Judge Gull misspoke when she said this:
04/02/2024 Order (in mycase)
As neither Holder nor Westfall were suspects at the time the interviews were conducted, the defendant has failed to show that the lost interview of Holder was material and that the lack of a recorded interview of Westfall was material.

IMO she did not misspeak. She found that they were not in fact suspects at the time and therefore the interviews not material. The onus was on the defence to show the content was material and that LE knew this at the time - IMO

Dismiss.pdf.pdf

drive.google.com

19.On February 17, 2017, documents specifically sought by the defense (Doug
Carter’s emails with the FBI) provided evidence that:
a. Brad Holder was a suspect within days of the murder and certainly
on February 17, 2017 when Holder interviewed at the Delphi police
station and turned over his phone to law enforcement.
b. State Police Superintendent Doug Carter was aware that Brad
Holder was a suspect.
c. Even the top FBI agent in Indianapolis, Jay Abbott, was aware that
Brad Holder was a suspect on February 17, 2017.
d. Logan Holder was not mentioned as a suspect in these emails.

Right but the trouble is the Judge already found the opposite after a hearing?

I guess we can go round the houses all day but from where I am sitting these guys were clearly looked at, and nothing incriminating found, and a positive alibi was made out.

So now the defence has to argue that LE actually destroyed the incriminating evidence against the Odinists But why?

It strikes me that perhaps BH simply didn't allow his phone to be extracted, which could be due to many reasons not down to murder?

I wouldn't allow LE to extract my phone unless it was a super good reason to be honest. Certainly not on a murder rap!

MOO

 

[Knitty]

This thread is closed. Please continue at Thread #185.