Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[photographer4]

Nothing to indicate the police did anything to verify BW location after he left work.

Ok. Ty for your reply!

 

[BexLuth0r]

I think that is in dispute from what I glean from Rozzis cross-examination. He insinuated that “down the hill” could have been said by someone off camera. We don’t actually know how close BG to Abby.

We're not in the court room, but surely, if someone was telling them to go down the hill off camera, then the person on the bridge would have come forward to explain what they had seen? Or the girls would have called for help? Or tried to run back across the bridge to the friendly person following them. I understand the defence has to poke holes but it seems unreasonable that it was anyone other than bridge guy who ordered them down the hill?

 

[m00c0w]

If I were on the jury, I'd vote NOT GUILTY today - nevermind Monday.

Not quite what I asked, but it’s not super important. The burden of the proof is on the state, but unless the defense is certain no one believes the state’s case, they still better be trying to poke as many holes in the case as they can. Calling inconsequential witnesses, doing things that don’t actually boost RA’s credibility or damage the state’s credibility is detrimental to the defense and essentially leave the state’s version uncontested. Which is not a good thing.

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

Do the lawyers have the ability to draft a subpoena right there as court is in progress? Or would they have had to have had the subpoena prepared ahead of time in order to have served it as the witness was on the stand? Not moo - asking. Ty

Don’t know, maybe it was a proforma with his personal details added? MOO

 

[Crazyjster]

Don’t know, maybe it was a proforma with his personal details added? MOO

Usually its a template...(shhh)

 

[Mitch1]

Here are the three things Richard Allen confessed that only the murderer would know:

1) He was spooked by the white van while he tried to SA the girls
2) The girls had their throats cut
3) Their bodies were covered with sticks

GUILTY!

Nothing there only the killer would know

 

[MrsWatson]

Ok. Ty for your reply!

Except that's not true, as evidenced by the link provided.

Prosecution cross-examined Mullin. Not only did the police chief deny feeding Weber information about the van, but Mullin stated phone records backed up Weber’s account of driving straight home after work.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-former-fire-chief-recalls-nighttime-search-for-girls-and-lack-of-sightings/

Strange.

 

[MassGuy]

Nothing there only the killer would know

Boxcutter that he had stolen from CVS, and then dumped in the dumpster at CVS after the murders.

His account of that day, to include visiting his parents, not having lunch with them, buying a 6 pack, drinking 3, and going to the trails. Of course these can't be verified, but they ring true. Many of these types of killers are under the influence of alcohol when they commit their crimes.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/99114-99117NCJRS.pdf

 

[WildHuncher]

We're not in the court room, but surely, if someone was telling them to go down the hill off camera, then the person on the bridge would have come forward to explain what they had seen? Or the girls would have called for help? Or tried to run back across the bridge to the friendly person following them. I understand the defence has to poke holes but it seems unreasonable that it was anyone other than bridge guy who ordered them down the hill?

Scenarios in which BG is right there but someone else is kidnapping the girls do not make sense. BG messes up the whole thing. The real killer either decides not to try anything—there’s this other dude there—or he has to kill three people. Nothing happens, or it’s a triple murder.

But two girls did die and BG did not. There was no fourth person.

 

[Crazyjster]

Boxcutter that he had stolen from CVS, and then dumped in the dumpster at CVS after the murders.

His account of that day, to include visiting his parents, not having lunch with them, buying a 6 pack, drinking 3, and going to the trails. Of course these can't be verified, but they ring true. Many of these types of killers are under the influence of alcohol when they commit their crimes.

Can't be verified=not evidence...and did the medical examiner determine what was used to inflict injuries? It is the weapon that actually makes me wonder because a boxcutter, to be honest, does not seem like it would do the job (sorry to be gross)...I think it would take to long and the girls could have gotten loose. Thats what gives me doubt. A boxcutter is unrealistic.

 

[cherrybier]

It's curious that Carter told the FBI to go away we've got this, 4 years into the case with no arrest.

 

[ClearAhead]

Seems like Rozzi is on the fence. Either he wants BW’s testimony impeached or he want BW to be a possible suspect??? Anything but collaborating RA’s confession about an interruption occurring, a detail only he would know. MOO

Delphi Murders trial: Day 12 live blog

Day 12 of the Delphi Murders trial begins with the jury expected to hear two hours of audio.

www.wishtv.com

Defense attorney Brad Rozzi continues his cross examination of ISP Master Trooper Harshman.

Harshman confirms that he read reports about Brad Webber from February 2017 from two different agents.

Rozzi says that Harshman’s theory doesn’t take into consideration that Weber could have looked at his phone or gone to the gas station, because he believes the van had to be there at 2:20 p.m. to 2:30 p.m.

Rozzi asks Harshman if Weber could have been involved in the crime if he is placed there at that time. Harshman says no.

 

[gremlin444]

IIRC the medical examiner initially said it looked like the wounds were made from at least 2 knives - a flat edge and a serrated edge.

And that was in reference to marks made on only 1 of Libby's 4 or 5 incisions (because some of the incisions looked like they may have been gone over twice, due to markings at the end.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

"The wound on the right side of Libby’s neck had five red lines on the edge of the wound. They came out from the wound’s edge and were around 1 mm wide with space between them. These abrasions are at the center of the discussion about what type of knife could have been used."

I wish I could find the reporter's sketch that I saw that he made of the location of the markings on the injury. Those 5 red lines were only present along a very small portion of the entire length of the wound. Had that incision been made with a serrated blade from start to finish, the serration marks should have been present in most of not all of the rest of the wound, IMHO.

 

[Inthedetails]

So how will the jury take those videos of RA not being shown to the courtroom vs those crime scene/autopy photos of the girls being shown to the courtroom?

Will any of them put more weight on the importance of these because of that?

IMO a very poor decision to not show these videos today.

I don't think the jury will put any weight whatsoever on what direction the video monitor was facing.

jmo

 

[Crazyjster]

And that was in reference to marks made on only 1 of Libby's 4 or 5 incisions (because some of the incisions looked like they may have been gone over twice, due to markings at the end.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

"The wound on the right side of Libby’s neck had five red lines on the edge of the wound. They came out from the wound’s edge and were around 1 mm wide with space between them. These abrasions are at the center of the discussion about what type of knife could have been used."

I wish I could find the reporter's sketch that I saw that he made of the location of the markings on the injury. Those 5 red lines were only present along a very small portion of the entire length of the wound. Had that incision been made with a serrated blade from start to finish, the serration marks should have been present in most of not all of the rest of the wound, IMHO.

Boxcutter was unrealistic

 

[Mitch1]

Boxcutter that he had stolen from CVS, and then dumped in the dumpster at CVS after the murders.

His account of that day, to include visiting his parents, not having lunch with them, buying a 6 pack, drinking 3, and going to the trails. Of course these can't be verified, but they ring true. Many of these types of killers are under the influence of alcohol when they commit their crimes.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/99114-99117NCJRS.pdf

Boxcutter that he had stolen from CVS, and then dumped in the dumpster at CVS after the murders.

His account of that day, to include visiting his parents, not having lunch with them, buying a 6 pack, drinking 3, and going to the trails. Of course these can't be verified, but they ring true. Many of these types of killers are under the influence of alcohol when they commit their crimes.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/99114-99117NCJRS.pdf

Was the box cutter (alleged confession) testified to during trial

 

[MassGuy]

Don't go there

It’s a rare weapon to be used in a murder, but the point is that it can be incredibly effective under the right circumstances.

Saying it is “unrealistic” is belied by history and Allen’s access to them on a daily basis (home and at work).

If it can work effectively on grown adults, then a couple teen girls wouldn’t have had a chance.

And the crime scene shows that Libby did try to escape, likely after she was slashed.

 

[m00c0w]

And that was in reference to marks made on only 1 of Libby's 4 or 5 incisions (because some of the incisions looked like they may have been gone over twice, due to markings at the end.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

"The wound on the right side of Libby’s neck had five red lines on the edge of the wound. They came out from the wound’s edge and were around 1 mm wide with space between them. These abrasions are at the center of the discussion about what type of knife could have been used."

I wish I could find the reporter's sketch that I saw that he made of the location of the markings on the injury. Those 5 red lines were only present along a very small portion of the entire length of the wound. Had that incision been made with a serrated blade from start to finish, the serration marks should have been present in most of not all of the rest of the wound, IMHO.

It was also reported that he was starting to express doubt about the serrated knife theory in the defense deposition. So it’s not like this just came out of the blue.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I could tend to agree but then the argument arises ‘do the diagrams accurately represent the degree of violence pertaining to the crime scene’?

IMO in jury selection the situation could be easily resolved if the jurors were vetted by the question “would evidence involving a violent, bloody crime involving children be unduly upsetting or disturbing for you?” and excuse them if the answer is yes. Maybe that happened here, we don’t know. JMO

For me, there's no argument that arises.

If RA's found guilty, he'll get life x 2. The degree of violence in almost decapitating a teen isn't going to add anything to his sentence. The images may help the prosecutor get a conviction, though.
MOO

 

[Crazyjster]

It’s a rare weapon to be used in a murder, but the point is that it can be incredibly effective under the right circumstances.

If it can work effectively on grown adults, then a couple teen girls wouldn’t have had a chance.

And the crime scene shows that Libby did try to escape, likely after she was slashed.

Its rare...and I think the circumstances were very different...I think the evidence disproves the boxcutter theory. Actually there has been nothing confirmed that has not been common knowledge. I wish the boxcutter matched up because it would have been a detail that could have proven guilt, but it is one more piece of evidence that is showing his "confessions" are nothing more then stories...