Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #199

[MiniMoo]

Why in the world would the investigation not test the hair in 5 years?

I understand there’s a high probability it is transfer from Kelsi’s sweatshirt she gave to the girls but in the off chance that say for example it belongs to Kathy Allen and would of tied Richard Allen to the crime scene in 2017 similar to how the LISK killers wife’s hair was found on the victims.

This makes 0 sense to me.

JMO

Mind boggling really.

Total incompetence and something that should have been done once it was found.

Whether male, female or animal the question that needed to be answered like 7 or so years ago is how did it get tangled up on Abby's finger and why?

It might or might not be relevant, but it is something that should have been tested, assessed and mostly worked out well before now.

 

[iamshadow21]

Libby’s recording of the kidnap wasn’t until 2:47 so it would not overlap

Curious where you got that time. This article says 2:13.

New details revealed in Delphi girls' double murder as opening arguments begin

Richard Allen is accused of killing Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, on an Indiana trail in 2017.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Megnut]

Libby’s recording of the kidnap wasn’t until 2:47 so it would not overlap

She started recording at 2:13.

 

[Warwick7]

Libby's phone was connecting with a cell tower in the area on Feb. 13 but stopped at 5:44 p.m.

Baldwin said the state's theory ― that the girls' bodies were left in the woods by 4 p.m. on Feb. 13 and were untouched until they were discovered the next day ― could not have happened. He said Libby's phone, which was found, somehow connected to a cellphone tower at 4:33 a.m. on Feb. 14.

So the defense states the girls were removed and then brought back, thus why her phone allegedly reconnected to the tower.

No.

A stationary cell phone can automatically reconnect to a cell tower after losing signal on its own, as long as there is a tower within range and the phone is actively searching for a signal; it will periodically attempt to re-establish a connection with the nearest available tower.

 

[MassGuy]

Mind boggling really.

Total incompetence and something that should have been done once it was found.

Whether male, female or animal the question that needed to be answered like 7 or so years ago is how did it get tangled up on Abby's finger and why?

It might or might not be relevant, but it is something that should have been tested, assessed and mostly worked out well before now.

They did work it out, at least it's strongly implied by the defense attorney who mentioned this. They couldn't know that hair likely belonged to a female member of Libby's family unless they tested it.

 

[Warwick7]

Libby’s recording of the kidnap wasn’t until 2:47 so it would not overlap

By his own admission he originally stated, he didn't leave the trail until 3:30pm though.
It still over laps.

 

[Melted]

The two different knives are very interesting to me and I really want to learn more about them.

Obviously what I’m about to say is just my opinion, I believe (with what we have learned so far) that although the same type of weapon was used, the manner of the killing differentiate between the two girls.

One was savagely butchered (to the point of near decapitation) and the other was stabbed once.

Two knives, two types or killing, two killers.

JMO

 

[Melted]

By his own admission he originally stated, he didn't leave the trail until 3:30pm though.
It still over laps.

I was quoting your post in which you stated

“Let's say for argument sake, RA did leave by 2:15. It doesn't matter, their time in the area overlapped.
He still could have done it.”

 

[Melted]

Curious where you got that time. This article says 2:13.

New details revealed in Delphi girls' double murder as opening arguments begin

Richard Allen is accused of killing Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, on an Indiana trail in 2017.

abcnews.go.com

You are correct, I apologize and didn’t check the time but if he left at 2:15 for arguments sake as she stated that still would not be an overlap allowing him to be the killer.

 

[Warwick7]

I was quoting your post in which you stated

“Let's say for argument sake, RA did leave by 2:15. It doesn't matter, their time in the area overlapped.
He still could have done it.”....

True.....I was corrected by other posters.

After looking at my timeline and all of my notes, it is still a fact that in his original statement, he said he was there from 1:30 to 3:30, this means they overlapped.

 

[flashy09]

What would happen to cell phone data if RA turned his phone off at 2:15? Which coincides perfectly with when he apprehends the girls if Libby videoed him approaching at 2:13 pm.
The defense is funny with words and truth. Did his phone actually show him *leaving* or did it not show him at all from 2:15 until he was home?

 

[Warwick7]

Oh how I want to keep researching articles from today, but alas work beckons me.

Please keep posting, I'll peek at them from work. LOL!!

 

[MassGuy]

The two different knives are very interesting to me and I really want to learn more about them.

Obviously what I’m about to say is just my opinion, I believe (with what we have learned so far) that although the same type of weapon was used, the manner of the killing differentiate between the two girls.

One was savagely butchered (to the point of near decapitation) and the other was stabbed once.

Two knives, two types or killing, two killers.

JMO

I'd argue that it simply tells you who the primary target was. Another possibility is that one victim angered him. There is zero evidence of two killers.

 

[Trebor5591]

Motive for murder​

So far, the prosecution has not publicly discussed a possible motive for the murders since Allen was arrested 18 months ago. The state does not have to establish or prove a motive to convict someone in a murder trial.
But Jackson-Lindsay said jurors are naturally curious about motives.
“This jury will want to know why this seemingly normal guy woke up on that morning and decided to commit this crime,” Jackson-Lindsay said. “So while (the prosecutor) does not have to prove motive, I think it would be helpful for a jury to wrap their mind around why he would do such a thing.”

What to expect and watch for when the Delphi murders trial of Richard Allen begins Friday

Richard Allen is accused of killing Libby German and Abby Williams in Delphi, Indiana, in February 2017.

www.wthr.com

They did discuss motive. In the prosecutions opening statement, they said Allen took the girls down the hill where Allen "wanted to have his way with them", but was interrupted. "Wanted to have his way with them" is an old-fashioned euphemism for sexual assault. Don't forget the girls were forced to disrobe. That was Allen's motive: sexual assault.

 

[iamshadow21]

The two different knives are very interesting to me and I really want to learn more about them.

Obviously what I’m about to say is just my opinion, I believe (with what we have learned so far) that although the same type of weapon was used, the manner of the killing differentiate between the two girls.

One was savagely butchered (to the point of near decapitation) and the other was stabbed once.

Two knives, two types or killing, two killers.

JMO

Sometimes how victims are killed says something about how the killer perceived them or interacted with them during the crime, rather than meaning a different killer was responsible.

To draw a comparison, sometimes a rapist will be more brutal with a victim who fights rather than one who submits. The variation of injuries is a reaction to the victim. The rapist is the same, the variable was the actions of the victim.

In this case, we have one victim who seems to have been passive while killed, and another who seems to have been attacked while attempting to fight or flee. The examination of the blood at the scene may tell us more, but it really wouldn't surprise me to find out the theory of the sequence of events is that Abby died first and Libby died trying to get away afterwards.

MOO

 

[rez125]

I'm gobsmacked by the admission they don't know who's hair it is.

 

[Teche]

See how silly sketches can be? If Gull was not on the courtroom judge’s chair, I’d never know that was her.

jmo

This looks like a 1st grade grandson’s sketches.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I don't think than when JBC was a suspect that we knew how the victims were killed. I don't think we knew that until the first Franks.

MOO

You are correct. LE was very hush hush, and rightfully so at the time. It wasn’t until years later that they started revealing more information about the girls deaths and details about the scene. I only brought him up because of the recent mention about knives. IMO

 

[flashy09]

I'd argue that it simply tells you who the primary target was. Another possibility is that one victim angered him. There is zero evidence of two killers.

If he knocked Abby out - she never appeared to have moved during/after - and killed Libby first that knife would be dull and slippery. Maybe he pulled out a fresh one for Abby. He showed her more mercy in many ways.

 

[TTF14]

Libby's phone was connecting with a cell tower in the area on Feb. 13 but stopped at 5:44 p.m.

Baldwin said the state's theory ― that the girls' bodies were left in the woods by 4 p.m. on Feb. 13 and were untouched until they were discovered the next day ― could not have happened. He said Libby's phone, which was found, somehow connected to a cellphone tower at 4:33 a.m. on Feb. 14.

So the defense states the girls were removed and then brought back, thus why her phone allegedly reconnected to the tower.

No.

A stationary cell phone can automatically reconnect to a cell tower after losing signal on its own, as long as there is a tower within range and the phone is actively searching for a signal; it will periodically attempt to re-establish a connection with the nearest available tower.

I'm looking forward to phone experts.

As always, JMO.